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New fatal crash in Holland

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by Matias, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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  2. wilheldp

    wilheldp Member

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    That car certainly doesn't look like it has been on fire.
     
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  3. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    The car hasn't been on fire, the battery got (partially) detached from the car and caught fire. I agree the title for the article is incorrect, the driver died from impact and not in a burning car.
     
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  4. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Agreed.
    Apart from the fire on the road, the car itself doesn't show any signs of a fire.
     
  5. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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  6. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    "Some news outlets are linking the accident to Tesla’s Autopilot system, but without any confirmation that the system was actually in use during the fatal crash"
    Todays "journalists"
    Too bad for that 53 yr old man who died. Prayers
     
  7. voyager

    voyager Member

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    The 28th of July another accident was reported, this time in Hagestein, the Netherlands. The Model S rear-ended a truck. Driver was not hurt. Here are some pictures. I am sure Dutch Tesla technicians are investigating that one too.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  8. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Tesla driver dies in a Model S after hitting a tree. Tesla driver dies in a Model S after hitting a tree, battery caught fire, Tesla launches an investigation

    First, RIP to the driver. Hitting a tree at high speed usually isn't survivable, no matter the car.

    Some observations....they seem to sensationalize that the driver was inside while it was burning. Judging by the pictures, the cabin was untouched by flames. Better yet, so are the trees, so it doesn't seem to have been a large fire. There is a blip about the firefighters saying the fire wasn't the problem, it was the mangled state of the car that was the problem.

    Second, the old blue. Did any autopilot equipped cars come out when the old blue was being offered? Maybe a small overlap but I don't think it's very likely that this car had AP like they're insinuating.
     
  9. ibdb

    ibdb 3 Car Garage and a 5 Car Life

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    "Second, the old blue. Did any autopilot equipped cars come out when the old blue was being offered? Maybe a small overlap but I don't think it's very likely that this car had AP like they're insinuating."

    I have the "old blue" and have AP. We ordered our car just after the old blue was eliminated, but were still able to work with Tesla to get it. Our car was ordered April 30 and delivered in early June of 2015, and there was certainly plenty of time before that for others to have ordered that color combination.

    A Dutch language thread here believes the car to be a 2013 model, though. I don't speak Dutch to add any more context to that.
     
  10. Bimbels

    Bimbels GoldMember

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    I also have old blue and AP. Though when we ordered (May 2015 - delivered July 15) we were told they "might" still be able to do it. I think they stopped it soon after. Didn't AP hardware start to appear in cars in Oct 14?
     
  11. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

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    Yup, old blue AP here. We went with that after they cancelled green right after ordering. So if you want another color cancelled just let me know and I'll order it.
     
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  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, the Model S was moving at a very high rate of speed when it hit the tree, as the force required to fracture the battery enclosure is significant. The road appears to be a narrow two lane road with many trees on either side, some of them quite close to the road. It appears the driver was going much too fast for those conditions and lost control of the vehicle. The crash was "early this morning". Perhaps he fell asleep. Or he simply wasn't paying attention.
     
  13. Clomer

    Clomer Member

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    My guess, for what it's worth, is that the driver simply fell asleep.
     
  14. K Hall

    K Hall Member

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    AP hardware was installed at about VIN # 59 k
     
  15. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    AP hardware started being delivered in mid-September 2014. I wanted the old blue when I ordered my car in December, but the wife vetoed it (and that's fine, she cares about it more than I do!).

    Doesn't look like the sort of road where you should be using AP without being very attentive, so regardless of whether they were using AP, seems like this would be on the driver.
     
  16. Electric Dream

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    There's some discussion about the firefighters being cautious about touching the car in case they were electrocuted.

    Is this a real danger with a Tesla if the integrity of the battery pack or inverter are compromised? Do emergency services receive training from Tesla on how to deal with their cars if they're in a wreck?
     
  17. Skione65

    Skione65 Member

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    @Electric Dream,

    From what I understand this was initially an issue. Particularly egress and removing people from the cars in accidents. They (firefighters) are now apparently starting to get specialized training in dealing with Teslas and their battery packs and passenger removal with jaws of life and what to do and not do with the J.O.L. due to the technical complexities of the Model S. I believe Tesla started a program that's being used by fire departments in fighter training specific to Teslas but am not positive. Maybe someone with family/friends in the firefighting/EMS realm can chime in here.

    Ski
     
  18. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    From what I've read here in USA, yes and yes. From what I read from this Electrek article, the firefighters had the proper training information from Tesla, but could not make a path between that training and the situation presented to them; the reason they gave in the article was that the crash left the vehicle in too mangled a state that they did not recognize with respect to the training (too reformatted; didn't match training material closely enough). I have a feeling that an ample amount of ignorance was involved in that determination, but I wouldn't blame non-electricians for that, and I really hope Tesla takes this as an opportunity to learn about how to better more precisely explain what can be done in situations like this.

    Apparently, Teslas are easy to fall asleep in lately. A pertinent feature this year would be a module that detects sleepiness and jolts the driver into awakeness, then prompts the driver to pull over and take a walk, and as a punishment, donates some money from the driver's bank account to some cause or pays for a hotel room or something.
     
  19. Ivo-G

    Ivo-G Member

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    I'm Dutch and am following the news. If you guys have any questions please do ask them.

    First of al, I find it a tad tasteless to jump immediately to the question or even conclusions that AP was involved, that the driver fell asleep, or anything else. For all that's known now he might have had a heart attack or brain infarct, and been dead or dying before the actual accident occurred. A person just died, let's respect that and wait and see what investigations and autopsy tell us.

    Secondly, Dutch firefighters are indeed aware and trained in how to deal with electric cars after setting up protocols starting in 2009. After Norway the Netherlands are the 2nd highest Tesla adoption market in Europe, so they are quite familiar with the Model S and have the schematics and relevant info in their rescue info tablets. In this case however they waited for a Tesla expert from the Tilburg factory / service center to advise them how to deal with this particular incident where:
    a. The battery had been ruptured and torn in at least 2 pieces, with one half landing on the road and catching fire, which they managed to put out by covering it with dirt.
    b. The driver was already confirmed dead, and they did not see any reason to put themselves at risk with half the battery still connected to the car somehow. Had the driver still been alive they would've risked their lives if needed to rescue him and wouldn't have taken 8 hours in total to get him out.
    To my understanding only the part of the battery pack that was slung out unto the road caught fire, the car itself did not.

    I'll try to keep you posted once I know more.
     
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  20. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    Unfortunately it has been confirmed that this was 2015 Tesla with Autopilot. It is yet unknown if the function was actually engaged. At the location of the incident the road is straight, clear and markings are excellent. The firemen tried to extinguish the part of the battery that caught fire with powder but that didn't work due to continuing short circuits. The fire was finally termined by covering the battery with earth. I can see how the continued short circuits in the battery on the road made the crew hesitant to try to recover the body from the car that had the remaining part of the high voltage battery. Obviously with the driver already deceased they did not want to take any unnecessary risk at all. After 8 hours, the remains were finally removed from the car.
     
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