TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

New Feature Request: full regenerative breaking when pressing the break slightly

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by SeanReynoldsCS, Oct 15, 2018.

?

Should we add Break Activated between Low and Standard

  1. Yes, add Break Activated

    10 vote(s)
    26.3%
  2. No, Options are bad and nobody wants this.

    28 vote(s)
    73.7%
  1. SeanReynoldsCS

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Saint Louis
    I was surprised today when I played with my drive settings to find that switching regenerative breaking from low to standard actually affected more than just the pedals.

    I would have expected low to mean that if coasts better and standard to be more of a one pedal driving experience.

    I suggest we add a third feature of Break Activated, which would be “Low” when no pedals are pressed but “Standard” when the break is pressed slightly.

    Thoughts?
     
    • Disagree x 3
  2. favo

    favo P3D+ owner

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Sorry to be "that guy," but I think you meant to write "brake" and "braking." I'm a fan of Standard regen. With careful modulation of the accelerator, you can coast. The energy line will show neither green regen nor gray consumption. It's not too hard to get it coasting after a bit of practice.
     
    • Like x 6
  3. dailo

    dailo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I wish it was stronger so I don't have to hit the brakes at all.
     
    • Like x 11
  4. Gen3

    Gen3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    317
    Location:
    AB, Canada
    I agree. There should be a higher level controlled by the brake pedal. Ideally up to the max braking regen can provide, then with the disc brakes adding to it
     
  5. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,837
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA

    Regen on the brake pedal is a much discussed topic around EVs. My Volt had it and I liked it. HOWEVER, it had one major flaw. If traction was ever felt to be slipping during braking, the brakes went instantly to friction brake mode causing the pedal feel to change dramatically during a braking event. The first time it happened, it felt like the car shot forward for a second before I pressed harder on the pedal. Once I was aware of the phenomenon, it wasn’t as scary, but it was quite alarming the first time.

    Now, I suppose a sofisticated enough computer program could apply hydraulic brake pressure to equal the regen pressure in that event, so the pedal feel doesn’t change, but I don’t know that anyone has perfected that yet.
     
    • Like x 3
  6. ngogas

    ngogas Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,588
    Location:
    Utah
    Brake and braking and not break and breaking. My OCD side...
     
    • Like x 2
  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2020: Drain the Sewer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,115
    Location:
    New Mexico
    This.

    Save Tesla from the fools who cannot understand the difference between slowing down and (transiently) slowing down slower.
     
  8. chinnam3

    chinnam3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Bellevue
    I agree, this would allow us to reclaim more energy. So normally we can leave the regeneration to low, and when we touch brake strong regen is added. This way we can coast mostly when needed and still reclaim power when we want.

    Also, I wish there is even stronger regen option on brake.
     
  9. RyanT

    RyanT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Portland
    #9 RyanT, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    I agree. I had a Volt and I like the Tesla system better. The brake pedal is for friction brakes, and has the feel of friction brakes. Not this weird marriage.
     
  10. F_T_K

    F_T_K Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    This is the way my Prius drives, and the reason why after 141,000 miles on that car I still have 65% of my front brakes and 70% on the rear.

    Now that I'm driving my Model 3, I'm getting used to the "one pedal" driving, where it still trips me up sometimes is when the batteries are cold and I'm getting reduced regen capability. But I'm learning!
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Krazaak

    Krazaak Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Other than not being used to standard regen, there are not many legitimate reasons to switch from standard to low. The main reason to switch, would be because you know the roads are icy and you want to lower the chances of the ABS needing to intervene when braking. This is a lot more important on the RWD trim, since only the rear wheels regen. In that case, when you switch regen to low, you expect the car to let you use the brakes to slow.

    Learning to coast using the accelerator is better than using low regen.
     
  12. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,870
    Location:
    Maryland
    I have a Volt and have experienced the issue you describe. When it happens, it actually feels like you are speeding up (even though you aren't). Not sure about the Gen 2 Volt, but the Bolt's regen braking programming greatly improved this issue. When going over hard bumps while regen braking, it doesn't "break" regen braking like my '12 Volt does. Or if it does, it's only for a split second and you can barely even notice it.
     
    • Informative x 3
  13. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    6,719
    Location:
    USA
    Maybe TACC with AP3 has the power to full stop you without friction brakes? :D
     
  14. lolder

    lolder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    SW Florida
    The standard regen is the maximum regen possible. When you take your foot of the go pedal, it starts regening and the brake pedal only actuates the mechanical brakes. The brake pedal is not computerized like it is in hybrids. The car can put the mechanical brakes on also.
     
  15. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,449
    Location:
    Canyon Lake,CA
    Tesla has designed the Regen. well. They do not want it to be too strong or it will cause problems on ice and snow.

    They want the driver to have their foot stop the car in the last few feet, so the driver will be in control, not the car.

    So many people are about optimizing the regeneration, but fail to realize that very little current will flow to the battery at low speeds. The vast majority will be used to bring the car down to walking speed.

    Tesla also wants the physical brakes (breaks) to be exercised just a bit on most every drive. It keeps the seals and surfaces of the brakes operational. It dries off the rotors if wet and scrubbs off the typical dust of rust that happens when they are not used for some time.

    I think their current system is genius. I am always amazed and caught out when I charge to 100% and the regen is temporarily unavailable. Makes me appreciate how wonderful regen braking is.

    I imagine that even with full autopilot the computer will continue to press the physical brakes for the final stopping.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  16. Krazaak

    Krazaak Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    An AC induction motor needs a supply of power to the motor in order to engage regeneration. That's fine, because it regenerates more energy than it has to expend to energize the magnetic field. I assume that the 6mph cutoff on regen is probably the point where it starts to break even and resorts to the friction brakes instead.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    3,853
    Location:
    Buford, GA
    It is my understanding, from seeing some previous posts, that the Tesla brakes are just brakes. While fly by wire, their wire doesn't seem to connect to the regen. In my Leafs, the brakes were definitely controlling regen with very seamless transition from regen to physical brakes. I think that it is a significantly better implementation than the Tesla.
    Also in the Leaf, there are two levels of regen, that can be changed on the fly (shift into drive and get standard regen, shift again and you get enhanced regen, the "B" mode). This provides what I believe to be better efficiency in a number of situations. The first is when coming to a stop, there are a number of situations where coasting is more efficient than braking and then regenerating. And when on the Interstate, or higher speeds, it is again more efficient to coast than brake and regen. In the Tesla, you have to masterfully modulate the accelerator to do so, in the Leaf, I release the accelerator.

    I agree, I really would wish that Tesla would allow the brakes to control regen. I would also like to have the ability to change regen levels dependent on driving conditions and not go through multiple menus to get there.
     
    • Like x 3
  18. timk225

    timk225 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Why is it that so many people here can't spell "brake" properly?

    Or rather I should say, use the proper form of brake / break in the context of this topic.
     
  19. stonelance

    stonelance Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Seattle
    I'd prefer if there was a mode of basically no regenerative braking, and the brake seamlessly handled the difference between regenerative and friction braking. Then there is a very clear purpose to the pedals. One makes you go faster. One makes you slow down. Want to go the same speed? Don't push either of them. I find it hard on my ankles to how the accelerator pedal at a consistent location for long periods of time. Of course I could use autopilot, but with this system you basically get it for free and I suspect more intuitively. I suppose you have an issue if someone falls asleep at the wheel and the car never slows down, but that is probably a problem either way...

    I don't get these comments about regenerative braking being a problem in snow or ice. Braking is braking. I would imagine the car would be able to do an even better job limiting braking during slip when it was regeneratively braking than using the actual friction brakes. Maybe a problem where people freak out and instinctively take their foot completely off the accelerator instead of controlling the deceleration?
     
  20. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,980
    Location:
    Southern California
    Love Tesla's implementation of regen. It offers the necessary insight for the most efficient driving. Specifically, the current system helps the driver to use the least possible friction brakes if they want to because it is totally obvious where regen ends and friction begins.

    Now, having said that, I would personally love an option to have the vehicle apply light friction brakes below 5 MPH because I am going to probably have to do it and I want one pedal driving. EAP has no problem applying the brakes for me below 5 MPH ;)
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC