New FSD beta testers (June 2022) - First experiences

[zcxvxcv]

Right. That’s what I’d expect too. But that’s not the way they want us to test FSD.

So its a "you're holding it wrong" type of problem. If Tesla didn't want people to activate FSD without a destination, they wouldn't let it happen.

I *am* interested in seeing if Tesla has stated that we should ignore problems with no-destination FSD so I know to stop hitting the snapshot button. Not trying to assume things here, but unless they've stated that we should ignore issues with no-destination FSD, it *is* a bug in FSD and should not just be ignored with "that's just the way that it is, deal with it".

 

[Dewg]

So its a "you're holding it wrong" type of problem. If Tesla didn't want people to activate FSD without a destination, they wouldn't let it happen.

I *am* interested in seeing if Tesla has stated that we should ignore problems with no-destination FSD so I know to stop hitting the snapshot button. Not trying to assume things here, but unless they've stated that we should ignore issues with no-destination FSD, it *is* a bug in FSD and should not just be ignored with "that's just the way that it is, deal with it".

Absolutely not. You can totally engage FSD without a destination on city streets and it will keep you straight for the most part. But there are times when your lane ends or turns into a turn only lane so it will turn. If it tries to go straight through a turn lane, take over and report it.

 

[chromeboy]

Summarizing my experiences as I've been using FSD heavily since getting it a week ago.

Summary:
1. Do not enabled FSD unless you're going to be acting like a QA beta tester. It's not nearly good enough to just cruise around in. Turn it on when you're going to be focused and report issues to hopefully improve it
2. Use voice command "report bug" and describe a bug whenever something bad happens so that you're reporting bugs to Tesla.
3. You need to think of FSD as if your 13-14 yr old kid is driving for the first time.
4. God damn it's impressive even if it does have a long way to go

Areas of Improvement Needed:

• It does not slow down at all for huge dips in a road such as water gutters that are sometimes found at intersections. It sped through multiple at higher speeds and scraped the bottom of the car. I'm a bit concerned that by using only cameras it can't do depth perception of drops in the ground that could translate to the front end scraping
• It does not slow down for rail road crossings
• Unprotected turns are pretty scary. it creeps out incredibly slow and will almost always stop completely in the intersection to do a final check for upcoming cars. I'm concerned that do to camera placements it just can't see how far enough, especially in the suburbs where curb-side parked cars block a lot of the view
• It's a bit too timid at stop sighs where it takes too long to go.
• It often doesn't pick the right turn lane or understand how soon it'll need to make a subsequent turn. I dont know if it's not looking at the map data early enough, but it seems to favor the inside lanes even though it'll need to immediately make a right turn afterwards.
  • In one instance the maps showed 2 routes of either going straight across a busy intersection (the much easier path) or making a right onto the busy intersection, cutting over 3 lanes, then making an unprotected left turn. For some reason it chose the latter route which caused me to disengage because it just couldn't get over fast enough.
• There is one tricky intersection where I live where 2 sets of 3 lanes each converge into one but have alternating stop lights (e.g. the left 3 lanes will have a green but the right 3 lanes have a red and visa versa). It stops fine, but even though after the light it needs to make a right hand turn it seems to swerve 2 lanes over to the left for a very unknown reason.
• I've received numerous phantom breaks both on the freeway and driving around the suburbs
• It can sometimes be very sharing making a turn where it over turns the wheel, drives forward a few inches then corrects. It's incredibly concerning as the drive as it looks like it's going to turn directly into a parked car or the curb

Wins:

• I've taken drives to destinations 3 cities over going from suburbs to freeway back to suburbs and it has been able to handle it with no disengagements on multiple occasions. As someone in the software space, it's incredibly impressive how well it works even though there is many years to go before we'll be able to just doze off while it drives

I know it's only 1 win, but it's a damn impressive one. I love being at the forefront of technology and if you dont, then 12k is definitely not worth it. But I'm always smiling when I turn on FSD and risk my own life to alpha test self-driving software .

 

[drtimhill]

2. Use voice command "report bug" and describe a bug whenever something bad happens so that you're reporting bugs to Tesla.

No, this is NOT the correct way to report issues to Tesla .. you should click the FSD beta camera icon.

 

[chromeboy]

No, this is NOT the correct way to report issues to Tesla .. you should click the FSD beta camera icon.

No. That button only attaches a snapshot of the system which report bug is doing anyway. It's not providing any context.

> “You should be able to press mic button & say “bug report,” Elon Musk tweeted on Sunday, in response to users reporting issues with the FSD – Full Self Driving (Auto Pilot).

 

[drtimhill]

No. That button only attaches a snapshot of the system which report bug is doing anyway. It's not providing any context.

> “You should be able to press mic button & say “bug report,” Elon Musk tweeted on Sunday, in response to users reporting issues with the FSD – Full Self Driving (Auto Pilot).

ok, let's be very clear about this. Tesla IN THE FSD BETA RELEASE NOTES and IN THE BETA WELCOME EMAIL say that you should report FSD issues using the beta camera icon, and follow up with an email to the beta team if you think any additional information might be useful.

They have NEVER suggested using the bug reporting mechanism. This will NOT send anything to the FSD beta team, and in fact most of the time doesnt send ANYTHING to Tesla at all. The FSD beta camera icon in fact sends a LARGE dataset back to Tesla, including data about the state of FSD at the time the event was recorded. It tends to do this later in the day when the car is on WiFi, and you can actually watch the data uploading if you have the necessary router expertise .. there is a LOT.

Everyone on the FSD beta should continue to use the FSD beta camera icon as per Tesla's instructions.

 

[Phlier]

No. That button only attaches a snapshot of the system which report bug is doing anyway. It's not providing any context.

Pressing the FSD Beta camera icon saves the last ten seconds of camera data, as well as the car's "black box" data, ie, speed, direction, g forces, etc. and then forwards all of that information the next time the car is connected to WiFi. Its literal reason for existence is to report FSD Beta bugs. In fact, it doesn't exist in any firmware versions except FSD Beta.

Pressing the voice recognition button on the steering wheel and using the "bug report" voice command has *nothing* to do with reporting FSD Beta bugs.

 

[hugh_jassol]

No. That button only attaches a snapshot of the system which report bug is doing anyway. It's not providing any context.

> “You should be able to press mic button & say “bug report,” Elon Musk tweeted on Sunday, in response to users reporting issues with the FSD – Full Self Driving (Auto Pilot).

Sorry @chromeboy - the "bug report" does nothing. Well it marks a spot in the logs so that IF support logs in a looks, they see it. Not part of reporting FSD beta.

PSA: Tesla's "Bug Report" feature...

www.teslaownersonline.com

To Add even more info, here's the except from the "FSD Beta Welcome" email for those of us who joined last Fall:

How to provide feedback:

• Press the "Video Record" button on the top bar UI to share your feedback. When pressed, your vehicle’s external cameras will share a short VIN-associated Autopilot Snapshot with the Tesla engineering team to help make improvements to FSD. You will not be able to view the clip.
• You can email your feedback to [email protected]. In your email please include date, time, location, and if you took an Autopilot Snapshot. This helps us investigate issues, and better understand your feedback.

 

[mcvaughan]

Liking FSD, except for a couple things I notice:

- right turns are on the jerky side (this is tough with yoke steering)
- acceleration is not very smooth when taking off from a stop sign and sometimes traffic light

 

[Phlier]

“You should be able to press mic button & say “bug report,” Elon Musk tweeted on Sunday, in response to users reporting issues with the FSD – Full Self Driving (Auto Pilot).

BTW... that quote was meant for people that are using the public version of FSD, not the Beta. And even then, he's just using it as an appeasement statement, as literally nothing gets sent to Tesla when the "bug report" voice command is used. The only way that information is accessed is when at a Service Center, and then only if the technician is looking in the logs for Bug Reports.

 

[Hoss2626]

So, having used the beta for a bit now, I find I am much happier when I intervene in the following ways:

1) slow down the speed below 25 when in my neighborhood when starting or for stops and turns (and also when pulling into my neighborhood because FSD-Beta thinks the speed limit for the first 150 feet after turning is still 45 mph!) This makes neighborhood driving much calmer.

2) for certain lanes, I try to force the car into the correct turn lane, by either using the turn signal to prompt the car to move or disengaging and turning in the correct lane and reingaging.

3) when the car (often... actually most of the time!) wants to turn into the left lane when there is a right turn imminent (less than .3 miles away), i will cancel the lane change immediately using the turn stalk. Note that I also do this with regular autopilot on highways when I don't like the change of lanes.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

This thing is nowhere near ready for robo taxis. See if you can follow me along. I live on Long Island which consists of 4 counties east of Manhattan. 2 Counties (Kings and Queens) are part of NYC. The other 2 are independent. I Live in Nassau County 1 county East of Queens. I had to go to the town dump. Now to simplify it I live near a state rd Rte 24 a few blocks away. I drove there and entered Wantagh State Parkway (freeway) south for a few miles to the Southern parkway west bound a few miles to the Meadow Brook Pkwy south and got off a state road, went 1/2 mile and entered the town dump. I do my business,
I get back on the state road punch in Home for Navigation and it enters the Meadow Brook North. The Blue line showing the route would have me get off another exit on the Southern state east and take me through side street to get back to my Rte 24. Not only does the car NOT get off where I Ididn't want, it recalculated the cloverleaf exit to Wantagh North. I gets there and I have to take over to MAKE it exit. I go a few miles back and it shows the exit to go back to my Rte 24, It DOESN'T exit and I have to take over.
So - it doesn't calculate the efficient way back
It doesn't follow it's own exit rule
It corrects its but doesn't exit one parkway to get on the other
It doesn't exit parkway to main route.

I don't care what anyone says this is nowhere near a robotaxi. MAYBE if I told it to drive me to New Jersey over the George Washington Brodge it would do it but short hops, NO. This is gonna be another 10 years at least and Elon wants to fool around with a message service where he has 98M followers and one tweet he sends out is........... Humor is one of the great joys of life. Yeah, twitter needs fixing.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

That's like a trim level upgrade. Most cars with advanced features require you to get the "premium" trim to access those features.

Not my 2017 Prius. Not ANY of the latest Hyundais, Lexus Toyota Subaru

 

[mangrove79]

This thing is nowhere near ready for robo taxis. See if you can follow me along. I live on Long Island which consists of 4 counties east of Manhattan. 2 Counties (Kings and Queens) are part of NYC. The other 2 are independent. I Live in Nassau County 1 county East of Queens. I had to go to the town dump. Now to simplify it I live near a state rd Rte 24 a few blocks away. I drove there and entered Wantagh State Parkway (freeway) south for a few miles to the Southern parkway west bound a few miles to the Meadow Brook Pkwy south and got off a state road, went 1/2 mile and entered the town dump.

You lost me at "Long Island". I feel sorry for anyone who has to "follow" your stories in daily conversation. They probably need brain surgery to straighten out those interlocking neural paths trying to do what you ask. I mean, c'mon, you could've left all that geo-tracking out and your story wouldn't have lost any context.

 

[Hoss2626]

This thing is nowhere near ready for robo taxis. See if you can follow me along. I live on Long Island which consists of 4 counties east of Manhattan. 2 Counties (Kings and Queens) are part of NYC. The other 2 are independent. I Live in Nassau County 1 county East of Queens. I had to go to the town dump. Now to simplify it I live near a state rd Rte 24 a few blocks away. I drove there and entered Wantagh State Parkway (freeway) south for a few miles to the Southern parkway west bound a few miles to the Meadow Brook Pkwy south and got off a state road, went 1/2 mile and entered the town dump. I do my business,
I get back on the state road punch in Home for Navigation and it enters the Meadow Brook North. The Blue line showing the route would have me get off another exit on the Southern state east and take me through side street to get back to my Rte 24. Not only does the car NOT get off where I Ididn't want, it recalculated the cloverleaf exit to Wantagh North. I gets there and I have to take over to MAKE it exit. I go a few miles back and it shows the exit to go back to my Rte 24, It DOESN'T exit and I have to take over.
So - it doesn't calculate the efficient way back
It doesn't follow it's own exit rule
It corrects its but doesn't exit one parkway to get on the other
It doesn't exit parkway to main route.

I don't care what anyone says this is nowhere near a robotaxi. MAYBE if I told it to drive me to New Jersey over the George Washington Brodge it would do it but short hops, NO. This is gonna be another 10 years at least and Elon wants to fool around with a message service where he has 98M followers and one tweet he sends out is........... Humor is one of the great joys of life. Yeah, twitter needs fixing.

Seems like either your car or your area or both are particularly problematic. I haven't experienced anything as bad as what you are describing, and I would say for my area a robotaxi is a lot closer to reality (years not decades) than in your area. I am in a small town in Missouri though, so probably majorly different from your area.

 

[Dewg]

Not my 2017 Prius. Not ANY of the latest Hyundais, Lexus Toyota Subaru

Not sure what to say. I just visited Toyota's website and built a Corolla and Camry and the advanced driver assist feature are not available on base models. They only appeared when I chose higher trims (like XLE) and then they were available options for additional cost.

 

[Phlier]

Not sure what to say. I just visited Toyota's website and built a Corolla and Camry and the advanced driver assist feature are not available on base models. They only appeared when I chose higher trims (like XLE) and then they were available options for additional cost.

I'm sorry for the off topic post, but had to add to this.

I got my first Toyota vehicle in 1984. It was a used 1982 Toyota 4x4 long bed pickup. I was so impressed that I haven't been without at least one Toyota vehicle ever since.

My wife's current ride is a 2005 Toyota Sequoia that is just about to turn over 300,000 miles.

Last week, I asked her if she wanted to start looking at replacing her Sequoia with another one. She said she'd drive her current car until the wheels fall off if she has to, but she's waiting for her Cybertruck.

That's my girl.

 

[lolder]

I didn't say it did learn (it doesnt), nor did I say you need esoteric edge cases (you dont). My point was if we all decide "I'm not going to drive the car till all those nasty issues are sorted out" then they wont be sorted out because we wont report them and Tesla wont address them in software updates. The point of a beta tester isnt to critique the car and then give up if they dont like the way the car drives, it's to continue to drive the car to give both good/bad feedback to Tesla.

The driving errors that we're talking about are not subtle and have been around for months through several updates so Tesla doesn't need more info on them. New bugs are reported within hours so when you test and find a glitch pressing the icon once is enough. They need to get from 89% to 99% before they start analyzing mega data for the March of the "9s". When that happens I'll leave it on.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

You lost me at "Long Island". I feel sorry for anyone who has to "follow" your stories in daily conversation. They probably need brain surgery to straighten out those interlocking neural paths trying to do what you ask. I mean, c'mon, you could've left all that geo-tracking out and your story wouldn't have lost any context.

Look at this....it couldn't even drive me back plain and simple on the highways and it missed 2 exits where I had to take over (the curly cue on the lower right
and the top right with the little 24. Google did a better job. FSD wanted me to exit before the curly cue and take side streets

1600 Merrick Rd to 55 Sycamore Ln

www.google.com

 

[Hamilton237]

Look at this....it couldn't even drive me back plain and simple on the highways and it missed 2 exits where I had to take over (the curly cue on the lower right
and the top right with the little 24. Google did a better job. FSD wanted me to exit before the curly cue and take side streets

1600 Merrick Rd to 55 Sycamore Ln

www.google.com

As FSD vehicle control gets better, weaknesses in navigation, routing, and lane selection are becoming more obvious. Some of it is mapping problems, either out of date or just incorrect. I don't know how they will get to reliable lane selection without HD maps until they are ready to start reading road signs. Maybe the answer is recording and sharing GPS traces from other drives for dynamic maps, but that is complex and prone to errors too. I have a few places in my weekly drives that beta won't get into the correct lane and misses its chance. Sometimes i let it go and it will re-route successfully... in another place it loops around to just to make the same mistake again.

The good news is, for robo taxi they can choose 'easier' routes vs the absolute fastest. 17 minutes vs 16 minutes when you are watching a video or working doesn't matter much.