New FSD details

[diplomat33]

I agree with you, but that's clearly not where they're headed now with the changes in definitions and labels they applied to the AP and FSD packages. And honestly, that doesn't sound good to me. Right now, they have:

- HW1 : without AP / with AP
- HW2 : without EAP / with EAP / with FSD
- HW2.5 : without EAP / with EAP / with FSD
- HW2.5 : without AP (new label, not the same features as EAP) / with AP (ditto) / with FSD (but not the same features as the FSD before)

and probably soon, you'll have to add:
- HW3 : without AP / with AP / with FSD

Yeah, right, let's talk about good decisions

Well, AP1 cars won't be around forever. Tesla will be upgrading most AP2 cars with the AP3 chip. And new cars going forward will be produced with the AP3 chip. So in reality, AP1 and AP2 will be phased out over time.

 

[u00mem9]

Lowering the bar, no kidding.

Just redefine FSD and Voila, you got FSD!

Don't forget, this BS allows them to declare previous FSD monies collected as revenue from sales for this quarter...Which I think hasn't been done for any FSD funds since launch in late 2016. More window dressing for the financials to obscure the collapse of the growth narrative.

 

[boonedocks]

Don't forget, this BS allows them to declare previous FSD monies collected as revenue from sales for this quarter...Which I think hasn't been done for any FSD funds since launch in late 2016. More window dressing for the financials to obscure the collapse of the growth narrative.

I am not about suing or class action law suits but if Tesla changes the definition of FSD to start collecting funds and to claim FSD feature complete just to take the funds $$ off the shelf and in to the books and alleviate the need to upgrade HW2/2.5 computers....then Tesla will certainly have some fun times coming their way....

 

[mongo]

I am not about suing or class action law suits but if Tesla changes the definition of FSD to start collecting funds and to claim FSD feature complete just to take the funds $$ off the shelf and in to the books and alleviate the need to upgrade HW2/2.5 computers....then Tesla will certainly have some fun times coming their way....

Chaining the definition to claim revenue would only works for new sales. The liability line item from previous pre-orders does not just go away,

 

[boonedocks]

Chaining the definition to claim revenue would only works for new sales. The liability line item from previous pre-orders does not just go away,

I do believe it has been done in that past by Tesla though. AP1 - Go back and read what was advertised when purchasing AP1 and what was actually delivered.

 

[viper2ko]

This whole situation seems confusing to me. Why exactly are they giving away FSD and EAP for 5k now? And how does this affect esrlyt adopters that paid for FSD or already have EAP?

 

[diplomat33]

Don't forget, this BS allows them to declare previous FSD monies collected as revenue from sales for this quarter...Which I think hasn't been done for any FSD funds since launch in late 2016. More window dressing for the financials to obscure the collapse of the growth narrative.

I am not about suing or class action law suits but if Tesla changes the definition of FSD to start collecting funds and to claim FSD feature complete just to take the funds $$ off the shelf and in to the books and alleviate the need to upgrade HW2/2.5 computers....then Tesla will certainly have some fun times coming their way....

Chill folks. Tesla is not changing the definition of FSD. Moving the features from AP to FSD does not affect EAP owners. We don't lose any features. Tesla is just dropping EAP for future owners and offering a more basic AP instead. And Tesla is delivering the promises they made for EAP. We got highway transition and on-off ramp features and we are getting auto lane change without confirmation and smart summon in the next upcoming updates.

Also, Tesla said from the beginning (on the FSD order page) that FSD would (future tense) drive you from A to B and eventually come pick you up across town but they could not promise when the features would be available. And now Tesla is saying FSD will drive you from A to B but you will need to supervise at first and they can't promise when FSD will get to the point of picking you up across town. So essentially the definition is the same. They are just delivering the first stage of FSD.

 

[u00mem9]

If the definition of FSD isn’t being changed to justify banking the revenue, then there isn’t a reason to reduce the price.

Furthermore, if FSD were really about to be released and would stun the public with its functionality...you wouldn’t cut the price just before that moment, especially if it makes you liable for hardware upgrades for 2 years of vehicles produced.

The situation is fishy as hell, and I have yet to hear an innocent explanation that doesn’t qualify somewhere between dishonest and fraudulent. I’m not the suing type...but I do have a big gain knob on my karma amp.

 

[mongo]

If the definition of FSD isn’t being changed to justify banking the revenue, then there isn’t a reason to reduce the price.

Furthermore, if FSD were really about to be released and would stun the public with its functionality...you wouldn’t cut the price just before that moment, especially if it makes you liable for hardware upgrades for 2 years of vehicles produced.

The situation is fishy as hell, and I have yet to hear an innocent explanation that doesn’t qualify somewhere between dishonest and fraudulent. I’m not the suing type...but I do have a big gain knob on my karma amp.

The goal of FSD is not profit, it is safety and pushing sustainable transport forward.

If the effort/ cost involved in developing FSD hardware and software is becoming more known then they can reduce the price. If the number of units they are selling is increasing, they can also reduce the price and generate the same monies for development.

The upgrade cost was already paid for by the customers and has been tracked on the balance sheet.

 

[docbrown]

If the definition of FSD isn’t being changed to justify banking the revenue, then there isn’t a reason to reduce the price.

Could it be that they're reducing the price to sell more? I for one was not willing to purchase at the previous price.

 

[docbrown]

Also, I’m not willing to pay for something that doesn’t exist yet. With way they’ve reorganized it I’m now considering purchasing ap and fsd.

 

[Axael]

Well, AP1 cars won't be around forever. Tesla will be upgrading most AP2 cars with the AP3 chip. And new cars going forward will be produced with the AP3 chip. So in reality, AP1 and AP2 will be phased out over time.

That remains to be seen. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't see any official confirmation from Tesla that AP2 cars would be upgraded to HW3.

Don't forget that this upgrade will probably mean having to upgrade to the 2.5 sensors as well, which may be complicated. Some say it will just never happen (and an official service doc from Tesla I've seen states that AP2 cars can't be upgraded to AP2.5).

Chill folks. Tesla is not changing the definition of FSD. Moving the features from AP to FSD does not affect EAP owners. We don't lose any features. Tesla is just dropping EAP for future owners and offering a more basic AP instead. And Tesla is delivering the promises they made for EAP. We got highway transition and on-off ramp features and we are getting auto lane change without confirmation and smart summon in the next upcoming updates.

There again, I'll believe it when I'll see it.

 

[mongo]

That remains to be seen. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't see any official confirmation from Tesla that AP2 cars would be upgraded to HW3.

~6 months before it is in all new production cars. No change to sensors. This is simple replacement of the Autopilot computer. Will be done free of charge for those who ordered full self-driving.

Elon Tweet

 

[Axael]

Elon Tweet

Uh, I'm sorry, but:
1. "No change to sensors" compared to what? AP2 ? AP2.5? Some of the sensors are different between those two.
2. What Elon Musk says is not an official confirmation from Tesla.
3. That wouldn't be the first time Elon Musk says something that never happens...
4. Let's say they indeed upgrade the computer (which is what was said), will they update the sensors of the AP2.0 cars too, so they're on par with the AP2.5 cars? Aren't those new sensors mandatory to achieve FSD safely? (oh, and I already saw an official service notice stating that upgrading AP2 cars to AP2.5 was not possible).

So, when I'll have a written confirmation from Tesla that the FSD upgrade will actually include the new HW3 even on AP2.0 cars, and that this will enable FSD (as in "FULL Self Driving") I'll say "you were right" and I'll be happy. Until then, I'm cautious.

 

[mongo]

Uh, I'm sorry, but:
1. "No change to sensors" compared to what? AP2 ? AP2.5? Some of the sensors are different between those two.
2. What Elon Musk says is not an official confirmation from Tesla.
3. That wouldn't be the first time Elon Musk says something that never happens...
4. Let's say they indeed upgrade the computer (which is what was said), will they update the sensors of the AP2.0 cars too, so they're on par with the AP2.5 cars? Aren't those new sensors mandatory to achieve FSD safely? (oh, and I already saw an official service notice stating that upgrading AP2 cars to AP2.5 was not possible).

So, when I'll have a written confirmation from Tesla that the FSD upgrade will actually include the new HW3 even on AP2.0 cars, and that this will enable FSD (as in "FULL Self Driving") I'll say "you were right" and I'll be happy. Until then, I'm cautious.

Picky picky picky....


2.5 may very well be not backwards compatible to 2.0 (why bother), but that says nothing about a 3.0 retrofit module.

 

[DiamondHands]

Picky picky picky....


2.5 may very well be not backwards compatible to 2.0 (why bother), but that says nothing about a 3.0 retrofit module.

Man I hope you're right. Wish Tesla would give some clarification already.

 

[mongo]

Man I hope you're right. Wish Tesla would give some clarification already.

On a quarterly call they sated they had HW3 S and X modules that had been tested.

 

[TMeister]

Unfortunately until a HW3 retrofit is performed all of this who-will-get-upgraded discussion is just conjecture. It's fun, exposes the issues for sure but I hope no one thinks they know the answer yet.

 

[Axael]

Picky picky picky....


2.5 may very well be not backwards compatible to 2.0 (why bother), but that says nothing about a 3.0 retrofit module.

Indeed. But it's not just about the module itself, it's also about the changes of sensor from AP2 to AP2.5: different cameras (at least in the front area), better radar, and improved wiring. They probably didn't change those sensors just for fun...

 

[BinaryField]

The goal of FSD is not profit [...]

I don't think that the shareholders will be happy to hear this.