New Generation 3 Wall Connector

[dmurphy]

You never could daisy chain the power connections.

That setup you are talking about is not daisy chained power. The power connections would still work the same way, whether it is a version 2 or version 3. You can branch them from that box if you make that box be a small subpanel or junction box. That's how these are done. Daisy chaining means that you run one single power line into Wall Connector 1 and then out of it to Wall connector 2. They have never worked that way. You have always needed to branch the connections at some point father upstream with a subpanel or junction box and then run a power line to each connector. There is no difference with that in the version 3.

So it is certainly not a solution looking for a problem. It completely eliminates an extra wiring run that used to have to be done before with the twisted pair for the communication. That part is now wireless, so the wall connectors don't need a physical connection directly between them anymore.

Thank you for the correction! The way others talked about it, I always thought there was a 2nd set of terminals inside the HPWC. Appreciate you squaring me up - and especially before I did something stupid... LOL.

In this case, I wholesale agree!

 

[Rocky_H]

Rocky, are there any significant advantages to plugging in an HPWC to my existing NEMA 14-50 as opposed to just using the UMC plugged into the 14.50

Depends. There are a couple of current limitations that could be in play. More info needed:
Which version of UMC do you have? I'm presuming the newer 2nd generation one. That is limited to 32A maximum. I have the older 1st generation UMC, which has a 40A maximum limit.

And what level of circuit is your 14-50 installed on? 14-50 outlets are allowed to be on either a 40 or 50 amp circuit, depending on what appliance is going to be plugged into it. Since the newer UMC is a 32A max supply, they are allowed to be done on a 14-50 with a 40A breaker. My 14-50 outlet is on a 50A, since I have the 40A UMC.

So...now the answers to your question. If you do have your 14-50 outlet installed on a full 50A circuit, and the 2nd gen UMC, then there are 8 extra amps you are missing out on. A wall connector could go on that and feed 40A instead of 32A. And by the way, I would never "plug in" a wall connector. Hard wired devices are safer and more reliable from having fewer sets of pressure contacts that can get weak, loose, etc. and become hot spots. I got a free wall connector from the referral program, which I do plan to put on my 50A circuit instead of the outlet.

The other thing that may be a little bit of an advantage is just not using something at its maximum possible level. I've seen over the years when people were running their wall connectors at max 80A or their UMC at max 40A for a long time, that they sometimes ran into something overheating and melting, or something in the unit burning out or blowing a fuse. If you use the charging equipment a bit less than it's built for, it leaves a little more margin for heat tolerance. I've been running my original UMC for almost 6 years, and I keep the car charging setting about 31 instead of 40 just to keep it a little cooler and extend the life of my equipment. So yeah, a wall connector on a 50 or 40 amp circuit is a little overbuilt for that, so it will stay cool and handle it easily.

 

[hcdavis3]

Depends. There are a couple of current limitations that could be in play. More info needed:
Which version of UMC do you have? I'm presuming the newer 2nd generation one. That is limited to 32A maximum. I have the older 1st generation UMC, which has a 40A maximum limit.

And what level of circuit is your 14-50 installed on? 14-50 outlets are allowed to be on either a 40 or 50 amp circuit, depending on what appliance is going to be plugged into it. Since the newer UMC is a 32A max supply, they are allowed to be done on a 14-50 with a 40A breaker. My 14-50 outlet is on a 50A, since I have the 40A UMC.

So...now the answers to your question. If you do have your 14-50 outlet installed on a full 50A circuit, and the 2nd gen UMC, then there are 8 extra amps you are missing out on. A wall connector could go on that and feed 40A instead of 32A. And by the way, I would never "plug in" a wall connector. Hard wired devices are safer and more reliable from having fewer sets of pressure contacts that can get weak, loose, etc. and become hot spots. I got a free wall connector from the referral program, which I do plan to put on my 50A circuit instead of the outlet.

The other thing that may be a little bit of an advantage is just not using something at its maximum possible level. I've seen over the years when people were running their wall connectors at max 80A or their UMC at max 40A for a long time, that they sometimes ran into something overheating and melting, or something in the unit burning out or blowing a fuse. If you use the charging equipment a bit less than it's built for, it leaves a little more margin for heat tolerance. I've been running my original UMC for almost 6 years, and I keep the car charging setting about 31 instead of 40 just to keep it a little cooler and extend the life of my equipment. So yeah, a wall connector on a 50 or 40 amp circuit is a little overbuilt for that, so it will stay cool and handle it easily.

Who is bettah than you Rocky. You’re the only person I trust on this forum..So do you recommend getting the wall connector? The 14-50 is on a 50 amp circuit . Thanks a million.

 

[mrau]

any significant advantages to plugging in an HPWC to my existing NEMA 14-50 as opposed to just using the UMC plugged into the 14.50

The UMC that came with the car is limited to 32 amps. The Wall Connector plugged into a Nema 14-50 would be able to charge at 40 amps. Provided of course that your car has a 48 amp max charger built in it. I believe the smaller battery (not Long Range) cars only have a 32 amp max charger built in the car.

So the charging advantage could be 8 amps if you have a Long Range battery.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Just curious: if you already have a Juicebox, what's your reason to change? I don't have anything myself, just trying to learn for future reference.

Yah there is not a lot of reasons why. Cool points maybe. The wife likes the door openy thingy. The reality is we have two EVSE’s installed right now. One outside and one inside. We’ll still need at least one of them as a J1772 as the other car is a leaf. We are replacing an electtic smart car with a model 3 AWD this spring/summer. It was going to be replaced by a Leaf Eplus SL which technically a little better fit for us for a few edge case reasons but our dealer is having trouble getting one before our deadline so we are going with the model 3. First world problems. .

 

[mreynolds767]

Main difference seems the addition of wifi.

I have no need for another one since I own a Gen 2 currently ; but my electric company which currently has an EV program that includes only Wifi enabled home chargers only may now include this new gen 3 charger. Always pissed me off they excluded Telsa the #1 maker of EV's from their EV program.
Don't recall the current offer of being in that program worth all that much ($150 credit or similar for me) but in some areas it might be enough of a difference to make this Gen 3 charger pay for itself.

 

[Rocky_H]

So do you recommend getting the wall connector? The 14-50 is on a 50 amp circuit .

I wouldn't get one just to get one. It's $500, and I have other things I could do with that, and what you have works. I got one free, so that's why I'm changing. But I stand by my advice that if someone is already planning to buy a second something of charging equipment, then getting an extra UMC doesn't make much sense. I would say get the wall connector instead of that.

Provided of course that your car has a 48 amp max charger built in it. I believe the smaller battery (not Long Range) cars only have a 32 amp max charger built in the car.

So the charging advantage could be 8 amps if you have a Long Range battery.

Oh, that's right. That is the other current limit I forgot to mention. The short range or medium range batteries can't take more than 32A anyway. But I see in @hcdavis3 's sig file that he does have the long range, so it can do up to 48A.

 

[animorph]

From the Installation Manual ( https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf) :

Terminal Blocks 12-4 AWG (3.5 - 25 mm2), copper only
Supported Conduit Sizing ¾" (21 mm) default, 1" (27 mm) optional
Cable Length 8.5’ (2.6 m) or 18’ (5.5 m)
Wall Connector Dimensions Height: 13.6” (345 mm) Width: 6.1” (155 mm) Depth: 4.3” (110 mm)
Wire Box Bracket Dimensions Height: 9.8” (250 mm) Width: 4.7” (120 mm) Depth: 2.0” (50 mm)

So existing 4 AWG wires or smaller would fit but my 2 AWG or 3 AWG would require some adaptation.
It still has top/rear/bottom entries.
Power sharing: ("This feature will be available in a future over-the-air firmware update."). Looks like it could maybe accommodate a 100A circuit wired to multiple Gen 3 WC's, where 4 AWG or smaller wires are used to tap off the larger circuit. But it's all future software at this point.

 

[hcdavis3]

I wouldn't get one just to get one. It's $500, and I have other things I could do with that, and what you have works. I got one free, so that's why I'm changing. But I stand by my advice that if someone is already planning to buy a second something of charging equipment, then getting an extra UMC doesn't make much sense. I would say get the wall connector instead of that.


Oh, that's right. That is the other current limit I forgot to mention. The short range or medium range batteries can't take more than 32A anyway. But I see in @hcdavis3 's sig file that he does have the long range, so it can do up to 48A.

Thanks Rocky!!

 

[Kevy Baby]

I believe the smaller battery (not Long Range) cars only have a 32 amp max charger built in the car.

Correct. Us lowly SR and SR+ owners are limited to 32A max

 

[JBT66]

You saw the utility rebate piece right? My utility and many others with give me a check for $500 for this gen 3 install where as they wouldn’t for a gen 2.

that along with the easier install and likely cost cutting for the shorter cable mostly sound like wins for me and Tesla.

That makes the target audience extremely limited and situational for this product.

Idk, it just seems weird to spend resources on producing new hardware when they have plenty of software and production issues with current products they could be working through.

Maybe I missed countless threads of people up in arms about needing a shorter cord that provides less amps for the same price?

 

[Kevy Baby]

You saw the utility rebate piece right? My utility and many others with give me a check for $500 for this gen 3 install where as they wouldn’t for a gen 2.

TL;DR, but if I am not mistaken, you could get rebates on Gen 2 as well.

 

[Black306]

Good morning.

I believe Black installed a cord on his HPWC which is what I am considering. I am essentially asking how that went for him.

I am aware of the corded connecter but get the impression it is no longer available.

Thank you for the reply though.

Yes, I installed a plug to my HPWC. It was very easy and I did it for a couple reasons; (1) ability to switch to a UMC if the HPWC gives me any issues and (2) have an outlet for a secondary purpose (ex welder).

Only downside is I’m losing out on 8A of maximum output (60A circuit/48A output vs 50A circuit/40A output) since power has to go through a 14-50 outlet. For my personal considerations, the flexibility of having an outlet outweighs the maximum power; I typically charge as slow as possible after midnight (~10A output) and don’t need to recharge the battery much (typically adding <10% to get to a 75% charge). Other people will have their own considerations that may differ.

I’m also aware of a corded HPWC. It’s my understanding those do not have adjustable circuit/output settings; they are fixed to 50A circuit/40A output.

If you have any other install questions, let me know.

 

[DrtyJrze]

You saw the utility rebate piece right? My utility and many others with give me a check for $500 for this gen 3 install where as they wouldn’t for a gen 2.

that along with the easier install and likely cost cutting for the shorter cable mostly sound like wins for me and Tesla.

I specifically said if you don’t already have an HPWC installed and price is the same as gen 2 (or lower with a rebate) getting a new one makes sense.

The 100’s of thousands of HPWC already installed have no incentive to upgrade. Tesla would’ve been better to save the next gen HARDWARE for a mass upgrade (more revenue). This will have low uptake with existing customers.

 

[DrtyJrze]

The lower output and shorter cord means this is much cheaper to produce. Being able to load balance more units will make it valuable to large charger installs. Imagine the underground parking lot of a high-rise building with many Tesla owners. It is not practical to tie each wall connector to the meter of a specific apartment and if all of them will pull full power at the same time they will overload the power connection to the building. With the new units you just connect them all to the same panel and limit their total output. You use the WiFi to track usage and handle billing. Presumably, you don't even need assigned parking spaces as the cars communicate their VIN to the Wall Connectors.

I agree, this is great for commercial installation. Not so much for residential use though.

Idk why everyone is so hung up on the WiFi feature. All of that VIN billing/tracking stuff could be handled by the same app and use the car. Whatever the wifi is connecting to the car can already do. They’re literally in the same space.

 

[gfunkdave]

So what about all of us who used 3 AWG wire for our Gen 2 HPWC per the recommendations in the manual? My Gen 2 just died. Am I going to have to run new wire ($500 for materials plus labor) because the 3 AWG wire won’t fit the terminals?

Also the new connector only accepts 3/4 in conduit in its top entry. Of course I have 1 inch conduit running into my Gen 2.

I know that this can probably be fixed with some wire splicing and conduit adapters. I just don’t get how could Tesla be so short sighted about something so simple?

So terminate your current conduit and wiring in a new box adjacent to the HPWC, and put smaller conduit and wires into the HPWC.

 

[Rocky_H]

TL;DR, but if I am not mistaken, you could get rebates on Gen 2 as well.

I think you are confusing two things. You seem to be talking about the just-renewed federal tax credits for installing something that is in the very generic large category of charging equipment.

What @JBT66 was talking about was some states' incentive programs where the requirements are absolutely hard & fast that they are only for "smart" charging equipment, and the requirement is non-negotiable that it has to include wi-fi connectivity. The older gen2 Tesla wall connector did not have that, so it was excluded from many states' rebate programs.

Idk why everyone is so hung up on the WiFi feature. All of that VIN billing/tracking stuff could be handled by the same app and use the car. Whatever the wifi is connecting to the car can already do. They’re literally in the same space.

And this is why "everyone" is "so hung up on" it. In a lot of states, it is the difference between getting or not getting several hundred dollars, based on whether the equipment you are going to buy and install has wi-fi or not. So yeah, it's kind of a legitimately Big Deal (TM) for some people.

 

[Zaxxon]

I’m pretty sure it’s easier to update an app to get usage over time data than to create a new gen 3 piece of hardware. I’m also pretty sure the same app could give you total use of your HPWC from any user that connects. They literally have to write the code to give you this same info over WiFi anyway.

WiFi on a unit that only operates when connected to a vehicle with WiFi is redundant.

Again, IF you currently have nothing, and gen 2/gen 3 are priced about the same, it’s a no brainer to get the newest version. But this is a not a must have upgrade, even if it was a simple install.

Unless you plan on having 16 vehicles to charge at the same time, lol.

The lower output and shorter cord means this is much cheaper to produce. Being able to load balance more units will make it valuable to large charger installs. Imagine the underground parking lot of a high-rise building with many Tesla owners. It is not practical to tie each wall connector to the meter of a specific apartment and if all of them will pull full power at the same time they will overload the power connection to the building. With the new units you just connect them all to the same panel and limit their total output. You use the WiFi to track usage and handle billing. Presumably, you don't even need assigned parking spaces as the cars communicate their VIN to the Wall Connectors.

I agree, this is great for commercial installation. Not so much for residential use though.

Idk why everyone is so hung up on the WiFi feature. All of that VIN billing/tracking stuff could be handled by the same app and use the car. Whatever the wifi is connecting to the car can already do. They’re literally in the same space.

The comments re WiFi when the car already has WiFi are missing a key piece: in destination charging situations, the car is not going to be connected to the location's WiFi.

This upgrade is maybe 20% about improving the owner experience and 80% about improving and reducing costs for commercial installs. The cost for electrical setup to install 16 of these is likely to be substantially less than to set up 4 runs of 4 gen 2 units, and this gives all sorts of neat improvements that could come down the road.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I think you are confusing two things. You seem to be talking about the just-renewed federal tax credits for installing something that is in the very generic large category of charging equipment.

I believe here in California (and possibly other states) there was already a rebate in effect for installing EV charging (including the Wall Connector) before the retroactive federal rebates. TBH, I didn't pay that much attention because I knew I wouldn't be installing one at home.

So, I guess I shouldn't even be making this post because I obviously don't know what I'm talking about. Move along - nothing to see here.

 

[VT_EE]

Sigh... literally just ordered one of the Silver ones with 24' cable yesterday, shipped earlier today. Order invoice shows the old model's part number.

I think there's a 60-day return policy... but do they cover return shipping to CA?

It costs roughly $70 to ship it back.