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New Hampshire VW Environmental Mitigation Trust Direct Current Fast Charging Infrastructure Request for Proposals
- Thread starter B_E_V
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Two sites in Warner and one in New London have applied. New London is closer to the mid-point, and also at the elevation peak along I-89 (~1200ft ASL). Site list (last updated in May): https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/file...e-documents/2021-10/interested-site-hosts.pdf
Or, "the supercharger in Hooksett is at a rest area at the intersection of two interstate highways that host several businesses, one of which happens to be a state liquor store"
Many (most?) of the state liquor stores are not on public property. The rebuilt Hooksett rest areas are a weird case. There was much hub-bub at the time about public-private partnership between the state and the company that owns the Common Man chain; I'm not sure who owns the land.
Early on in the VW process I heard Chargepoint was interested in applying to put sites at the Hooksett rest areas, but that's not on the May list.
I suspect the Hooksett locations are too full of chargers at this point, TBH. Tesla expanded both north and south locations last year or the year before, and it doesn't leave too much room for anything else. I suppose on the southbound side you could put something at the end toward the highway on-ramp leaving the rest area, but it would sort of mess up the flow of the truck parking over there.
Hopefully we can come up with a good solution, though. Having chargers for all EVs means we get to keep tourism dollars entering the state as more of the well-off tourists convert to EVs.
Hopefully we can come up with a good solution, though. Having chargers for all EVs means we get to keep tourism dollars entering the state as more of the well-off tourists convert to EVs.
On the northbound side, they could add some to the edge of the lot in the north-west corner of the property (the lot you'd park in if you were only going to the liquor store). Or the lot west of the gas pumps (no one parks there), but getting power there would be tricky.
It's a beginning, and eventually Tesla might even open it up to drunk CCS EV drivers as well.
In truth, I think the state mostly simply honestly goofed with their first RFP. They put together their dream list of requirements without understanding the commercial realities, and ended up getting ZERO proposals that met their requirements. With that egg on their face, I suspect they became way more cautious.
Then of course the pandemic disrupted and delayed everything.
With the typical speed of a new-complex-multiple-bureaucratic-departments-project run by committee, they eventually put together the current proposal. Which they then had to amend and delay multiple times. Eventually they got stuck waiting for the New Hampshire Public Utilities Commission, who's ruling prompted this thread.
Now they are probably worried about the criticism they will receive if they go ahead with the VW 2021 RFP criteria requiring two chargers with CCS and CHAdeMO support at each site without taking into account the new Federal four CCS chargers per site NEVI criteria. The PERFECT being the enemy of the Good Enough in any organization. Given NH's status as a political battleground state, I also wouldn't be shocked if some of the people involved in approving all this government spending didn't strongly prefer the "Clean Diesel" proposals previous funded with VW funds to EV funding. After all there are only about 4,000 EVs registered in NH, and most of them are almost certainly Tesla vehicles anyway.
At least New Hampshire still has bipartisan support for MORE State Liquor Stores! Though that support might fragment if the state mandated a DCFC at each store.
I was curious why NH insists on each VW settlement funded charger location including CHAdeMO when as of 2022 the only new BEV (I believe) using CHAdeMO is a Nissan Leaf. Since NH is using VW funds to build chargers that will work exclusively for one model from one manufacturer, I (mostly jokingly) asked why Tesla-exclusive chargers were not also included. Obviously Tesla is proprietary and another OEM could choose to use CHAdeMO in theory, but all non-Tesla, non-Leaf BEV seem to have CCS now to my knowledge. Side-note, is any new BEV model built with only Level 2 J1772 capability now?
NH VW settlement replied saying "We took an inclusive approach to the process in an attempt to make DCFC available to as many residents and visitors as possible, including the requirement for CHAdeMO plugs. While fewer new EV models may use CHAdeMO plugs, used EVs, which typically cost less than new EVs and therefore may be more accessible for drivers of lower income brackets, may result in the regular use of CHAdeMO plugs for years to come. .... NHDOT, who is responsible for administering those “NEVI” funds, will be taking their own approach to the further development of DCFC in the State, and their Deployment Plan states that they may utilize portions of this funding to upgrade existing stations."
There was also a question at one point about the NH VW settlement's RFP which disqualified any new potential DCFC sites if they were within 20 miles of an existing DCFC. They clarified that a DCFC at a campground in Lancaster, NH which closes for the winter and similar locations are not factored into those restrictions since they are not available to the public 24/7/365.
NH VW settlement replied saying "We took an inclusive approach to the process in an attempt to make DCFC available to as many residents and visitors as possible, including the requirement for CHAdeMO plugs. While fewer new EV models may use CHAdeMO plugs, used EVs, which typically cost less than new EVs and therefore may be more accessible for drivers of lower income brackets, may result in the regular use of CHAdeMO plugs for years to come. .... NHDOT, who is responsible for administering those “NEVI” funds, will be taking their own approach to the further development of DCFC in the State, and their Deployment Plan states that they may utilize portions of this funding to upgrade existing stations."
There was also a question at one point about the NH VW settlement's RFP which disqualified any new potential DCFC sites if they were within 20 miles of an existing DCFC. They clarified that a DCFC at a campground in Lancaster, NH which closes for the winter and similar locations are not factored into those restrictions since they are not available to the public 24/7/365.
CHAdeMO made a lot more sense just a few years ago when the government was setting requirements. Back then even Tesla offered an official CHAdeMO adapter, and for older non-CCS enabled Tesla vehicles CHAdeMO is still the only Tesla blessed DCFC adapter available. At this point only a minority of individuals probably want to experience the delays associated with changing the requirements to get rid of CHAdeMO, and the tiny minority that needs CHAdeMO might raise a stink.
The part I think may be giving them more heartburn is the VW 2 charger versus NEVI 4 charger requirements, when combined with the spacing between new chargers requirement. Should the BEST sites get VW 2 charger installs and push the NEVI 4 charger sites to the second best sites, or will upgrading the 2 charger sites to 4 charger sites solve the issue? If upgrading, does the same provider expand their 2 charger site which is cheaper overall, but not very amenable to competitive bidding, or does a second site operator install competing chargers at the exact same site?
I think the amount of EVs when Chademo was used is minuscale. Not only that, pretty much was just the leaf that used the Chademo then. NHDOT should just install CCS and forget about supporting the Chademo. The cars that supports the Chademo barely goes over 80 miles of range. And, worst, the winter time is only half that.
From usability, a low income household will most likely not buy the chademo used cars. They will do all their research before going in on EVs anyway. NHDOT is ridiculous in my opinion. I can probably say there's not much chademo users anyway at the moment. It was at a time when the state barely have 100 EVs at all. Since that time, people been buying CCS EVs. Heck, if Tesla opens up their chargers for other EVs, it will be CCS anyway since Tesla superchargers are based on CCS.
NHDOT is so concerned with the 80 EVs still using Chademo instead of the future millions of cars that will use CCS. NH has been studying since 2018.
Even with money from the Federal Government, not even attempting to put a pilot charger.......lol, only to spend more time and more time delaying until the interests disappears
Or, maybe just do this:
From usability, a low income household will most likely not buy the chademo used cars. They will do all their research before going in on EVs anyway. NHDOT is ridiculous in my opinion. I can probably say there's not much chademo users anyway at the moment. It was at a time when the state barely have 100 EVs at all. Since that time, people been buying CCS EVs. Heck, if Tesla opens up their chargers for other EVs, it will be CCS anyway since Tesla superchargers are based on CCS.
NHDOT is so concerned with the 80 EVs still using Chademo instead of the future millions of cars that will use CCS. NH has been studying since 2018.
Even with money from the Federal Government, not even attempting to put a pilot charger.
......lol, only to spend more time and more time delaying until the interests disappearsOr, maybe just do this:
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The Federal NEVI money does not support CHAdeMO.
However, the 2021 New Hampshire VW Environmental Mitigation Trust Direct Current Fast Charging Infrastructure Request for Proposals which closed on February 25, 2022 did specify a CHAdeMO plug at each site. I don't think NH can easily just discard those existing applications and start over with a new RFP that doesn't include CHAdeMO.
They might be trying to figure out how to coordinate the VW money with the NEVI money. Alternatively, they may just be waiting for a few staff members who also have other responsibilities to finish scoring the proposals incorporating the implications of the recent NH PUC ruling. Perhaps it has made it past the staff, and they are waiting for some committee meeting to review the staff's work and vote on the proposals. I do wish we knew.
At this point I just want NH to pick some of those proposals and move forward, which is just illogical impatience on my part. Our only EV is a Tesla, chosen in part because only Tesla has adequate DCFC sites scattered around NH and Maine. So I am unlikely to use some new 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO sites in the near future anyway.
Honestly, I'd prefer to see more sites like the EA installation in West Lebanon - a bunch of CCS (150-350Kw) with one Chademo. I have a Chademo adapter which has come in handy a few times, including once a couple of weeks ago.
It's a little disconcerting when a message pops up saying "You are about to be out of range of all known chargers. Recommend charging now" (or something to that effect). I was heading to the Evgo Chademo at the Bradford, VT Hannaford with ~5% left in the middle of a 560 mile trip (ME->NH->VT->MA->NH.
It's a little disconcerting when a message pops up saying "You are about to be out of range of all known chargers. Recommend charging now" (or something to that effect). I was heading to the Evgo Chademo at the Bradford, VT Hannaford with ~5% left in the middle of a 560 mile trip (ME->NH->VT->MA->NH.
On that note, EA isn't installing any new CHAdeMO cables on new sites outside of California. Even in California CHAdeMO is only 7% of charging usage-
"The writing has been on the wall for a while now, and Nissan's decision to transition from CHAdeMO to CCS for the upcoming Ariya was seen by many as the final blow for the once-dominant DC fast charging standard in North America and Europe. .....the company explains it will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors on its charging stations, beginning in January of 2022"
Electrify America Will Begin to phase out CHAdeMO In 2022
We examine the news that Electrify America, the largest DC Fast charge network in the US, will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors at its new locations.
insideevs.com
West Lebanon was one of the last ones, then (installed last summer). They stopped making Betamax tapes at some point, too.On that note, EA isn't installing any new CHAdeMO cables on new sites outside of California. Even in California CHAdeMO is only 7% of charging usage-
"The writing has been on the wall for a while now, and Nissan's decision to transition from CHAdeMO to CCS for the upcoming Ariya was seen by many as the final blow for the once-dominant DC fast charging standard in North America and Europe. .....the company explains it will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors on its charging stations, beginning in January of 2022"
Electrify America Will Begin to phase out CHAdeMO In 2022
We examine the news that Electrify America, the largest DC Fast charge network in the US, will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors at its new locations.
Too bad I'll never see a CCS adapter for my classic S.
That list of proposed sites is dire. Wow. It feels like some companies put their name out there to try to get a break, or to try to pay for their own chargers for their own employees/customers and not for public use. I guess we'll see how things shake out over the longer term.
Yes. Electric bikes/scooters, lawn mowers, and several electric motorcycles.
They should support a proportional number of ChaDeMo connectors for as long as there are a significant number of ChaDeMo equipped vehicle on the road. This is the burden that an infrastructure bears, and if the point is to do something about the environment, or to move the fleet to BEVs as soon as we can, then we want BEVs to be supported as long as possible so they don't get turned into scrap and all of the manufacturing energy is wasted.
Yes. Electric bikes/scooters, lawn mowers, and several electric motorcycles.
They should support a proportional number of ChaDeMo connectors for as long as there are a significant number of ChaDeMo equipped vehicle on the road. This is the burden that an infrastructure bears, and if the point is to do something about the environment, or to move the fleet to BEVs as soon as we can, then we want BEVs to be supported as long as possible so they don't get turned into scrap and all of the manufacturing energy is wasted.
I have a Leaf with CHAdeMO and don't think that this time that anybody should spend the $'s on adding new CHAdeMO chargers.On that note, EA isn't installing any new CHAdeMO cables on new sites outside of California. Even in California CHAdeMO is only 7% of charging usage-
"The writing has been on the wall for a while now, and Nissan's decision to transition from CHAdeMO to CCS for the upcoming Ariya was seen by many as the final blow for the once-dominant DC fast charging standard in North America and Europe. .....the company explains it will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors on its charging stations, beginning in January of 2022"
Electrify America Will Begin to phase out CHAdeMO In 2022
We examine the news that Electrify America, the largest DC Fast charge network in the US, will no longer install CHAdeMO connectors at its new locations.
Don't forget electric jet ski's and snowmobiles.
Some of them support CCS, and others are limited to only having J1772 ports.
Some of the older Nissan Leafs didn't include the ChaDeMo ports depending on how the car was ordered.
The New Hampshire Volkswagen Mitigation Trust page has an update dated September 28, 2022. A link to the NOW RANKED proposals is provided.
As suspected, NH's VW settlement plans have a massive overlap with NH's plan of Fed-approved NEVI locations. Some NEVI funds may be allocated to "upgrade" the VW sites.
VW
https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt341/files/documents/vw-rfp-2021-eligible-rankings.pdf
NEVI
https://www.nh.gov/dot/media/documents/nh-nevi-charging-deployment-plan-2022-08-01.pdf
OVERLAP:
Claremont
Colebrook
Concord
Conway/North Conway
Errol
Gorham/Berlin
Hooksett
Keene
Lancaster
Lincoln/Woodstock
Rochester
Electrify America was funded by the VW settlement, but the state's individual VW trust funds are separate and independent of EA, correct? Because EA is also planning at least one more site along I-93, likely either in the Lakes Region or White Mountains, within the next two years. So that should be in addition to the announced VW NH sites, correct?
Yes, the New Hampshire fund from the VW settlement is separate and independent of EA.
Maybe, regarding addition versus overlap of sites.
Just because the NH funds are separate does not mean sites EA hopes or plans to build might not also receive funding from the NH VW trust. When NH solicits proposals for VW trust or NEVI funded fast chargers EA is still allowed to submit proposals. Of course NH will generally only fund some of the proposals submitted, thus any EA proposals may or may not get funded.
EA may or may not have made the plans you refer to expecting to win some NH VW trust money. EA also may or may not go through with those plans if NH announces that some EA competitor will be subsidized to install DCFC site(s) along the route EA planned to cover. Especially with the flood of NEVI money expected, it seems likely that all the DCFC providers, including EA and Tesla, will prioritize qualifying for all the government subsidies they can in areas where they wanted to build chargers anyway.
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