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New House, What to Do...?

Discussion in 'Belgium and the Netherlands' started by Lycanthrope, Jan 6, 2016.

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  1. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Hi Folks,

    First of all, apologies, as I dare-say this has been discussed-to-death in other posts. However, as my NL is a bit slecht, I need your help in English...

    We're about to move house. In the currently house I have the Electrabel Car-Plug, which was necessary to get around the problems of the UMC not working for many Belgian installations (why the **** hasn't Tesla addressed this???).

    In the new house I will have a garage (woot!!), but of course when I tried the UMC I get 4 flashing red lights, so something has to be done...

    Now this is a rented house, so I have to be careful with drilling and adapting too much, but the owner got a quote from the builders that renovated the place to install 400V 3Phase 16A with a red-socket in the garage for €2200 - seems a bit pricey to me.

    My other option is to de-install my existing Car-Plug and wire that in - I guess this could be done fairly easily by just replacing one of the existing power sockets in the garage.

    But, I realise that many of you have been through all this and I'd look for your advice...

    Cheers, Dave
     
  2. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    Hi Dave,
    As the grid is 3x400+N (re the quote for the red plug),
    My first guess is that you only need to switch the two life wires in the socket in the garage, to make the TeslaUMC work.

    But that will be slow charging @ 13km/h.
    If you can use the red one, charging will be @50km/h.
    Now 2200 € looks very, very, very expensive.

    Can you take some pictures of the electrical cabinet, that will help us to assess.
     
  3. jpet

    jpet Jan P.

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    Did you get the list of the things they are going to do for this €2200 pricetag? I installed a red CEE socket at 3 locations myself but the circuits were already wired for 3F+N so it was pretty easy.
     
  4. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I don't have access to the house yet, so difficult to do much, but I'll talk to the builder and see what's what.

    As a short-term solution, 13km/h would be fine - I'm used to only 16 from the Car-Plug anyway. I feel that the electrician they're using needs to speak to Tesla, but I don't think they have done so...
     
  5. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    oke,
    I am pretty certain that you will be able to use the Tesla-UMC. Cross-cable should do the job, let's cross our fingers.:wink:
     
  6. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Well I tried with the adapter for FR, which reverses the neutral and live, but same issue.

    It's possible the earth is missing too, I guess...
     
  7. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    that would also be a possible cause.

    Tesla-UMC needs Ground, Neutral (approx 0V vs Ground) and Live (approx 230V vs Ground).
     
  8. RudiDL

    RudiDL Member

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    The house has recently been renovated you say. Then all sockets should have proper earth. You can double check.

    The cheapest solution will be moving your existing CarPlay charger. You already own it, and it's easy to move. If you do not mind the slow charging.

    2200 Euro for a 3-fase 400V is way overpriced. A socket costs no more then 15 Euro, the breaker like 20 Euro and then add some wiring and labor. Unless of course the house does not have a 3-fase connection. Adding 3-fase to a house will cost about 2000 Euro.
     
  9. Mdobro

    Mdobro Member

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    Did you try to rotate the schuko plug 180 degrees? ( is this the same as using the FR adapter?).

    In my house I had a lot of trouble due to weak grounding. It seems difficult to figure this problem out.
    but the sollution was actually nog very expensive, one grounding pin was all that was needed. (300 incl installation).

    A flexible sollution could also be a juice booster.
     
  10. Ivo-G

    Ivo-G Member

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    A Juice Booster will be more expensive than your current already owned CarPlay charger, but will be portable to anywhere else you move or travel to. A second version is due out soon, so depending on your rush, perhaps you may want to wait for that, even if only for the fact that the first versions may drop in price when the new one hits the market.
     
  11. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    Dat gaat niet in Be-Fr. Hier gebruiken we een (derde) pen voor de aarde, geen randaarding zoals in Nl.
     
  12. Wim S.

    Wim S. Active Member

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    De Belgen doen het altijd anders. Nu gaan ze weer 48 uur staken bij de Spoorwegen. Zo wordt het nooit wat :smile:
     
  13. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Hi Folks

    That Juice Booster looks like an interesting product, but the website doesn't describe too well what it does (other than replacing UMC). Is it the case that you can plug it into any source and in theory it will sort it all out and "just work"?

    Regarding the installation of 3-Phase I've been offered, this is all the detail I received: Installation d’un transformateur triphasé 400v 16kva, y compris prise, câblage et disjoncteurs. Prix hors TVA : 2.216€

    Isn't it also the case that the Norweigan UMC adapter resolves these Belgian issues?

    Cheers, Dave
     
  14. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Any recommendations on a Tesla-experienced electrician in the Brussels area that can come and de-install my existing CarPlug and check the situation in the new house?
     
  15. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    Oké, this is another ballgame.
    They need a transformer to get the 400V.
    So that's why the Tesla UMC will not work !

    In this case, you can either use a third party UMC, and charge monophase at 32km/h.
    This should however be possible with your Electrabel Charger as well.


    Or install this transformer and charge at 50km/h using the TeslaUMC.


    Too bad I'm 'out of order' for some time now, otherwise I would come to have a look. :-(
     
  16. slcuervo

    slcuervo Member

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    Correct. The Norwegian UMC works fine in Belgium.
     
  17. slcuervo

    slcuervo Member

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    I'm not sure I am following you here... Why third party? The blue UMC adapter from Tesla will allow charging at 32 km/h with single phase 32A.

    Dave, do you have 32A or more on your main switch in the circuit braker?
     
  18. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    EU UMC's do require the neutral, as opposed to the NO UMC's
    If no neutral is present, the TeslaUMC will not work, not on schuko, not on blue, not on red CEE.
     
  19. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope Member

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    Hi slcuervo - I don't know, I've not yet got access to the house, I just went previously on arrangement with the owner - the house is rented, so this also limits what I can/can't do. I get the impression that it's 16A...

    Or perhaps I could just get hold of a Norwegian UMC adaptor - will certainly be cheaper than other 3rd-party cables, no?

    - - - Updated - - -

    So I would need this transformer in any case, even for single-phase charging (I'm no electrician!).

    Perhaps the quote they gave is not so outrageous then, but being a rented house I'm not inclined to invest heavily...

    Indeed my Electrabel box will probably work... I need someone to remove it and install it, I can't do that..

    - - - Updated - - -

    But 3rd party cables work OK without?

    (sorry for the dumb questions!!)
     
  20. S-19910

    S-19910 Driving Model-S #19910

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    Sorry for the confusion :

    Based on the quotation, my estimation is that the grid in the new house is 3x230v. Most important about that : without neutral.

    The TeslaUMC, as used in the EU, whether on schuko, blue or red socket always require the neutral.
    So it will not work !

    Third party UMC's, like Juicebooster, Ratio, Mennekes or home-made, do not require the neutral. Same for the TeslaUMC as used in Norway only.
    So with any of those, you should be able to charge mono phase, up to 32A. Equals approximately 32km/h.


    Now, you do have the Electrabel Charger. I am not familiar with this one, but I know about other Tesla Owners who are also on the 3x230V grid, and use the Elevtrabel-charger at home.


    So imho, you already have the necessary equipment, we only need a 'connaisseur' to have look.
    Maybe the guy who installed the Electrabel-charger in the first place.





    To be complete, but make things even more complicated, there are 3x230V grids where you still can use the TeslaUMC... But before I can tell this is the case, I would need a picture of the incoming cable, or a reading on a ordinary multimeter.

    I have send a PM a forum member, I guess he will show up soon.
     

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