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New logic for “Hold Steering Wheel” nags in 2018.21.9

Discussion in 'Model S' started by MarcG, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    #1 MarcG, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2018
    After being upgraded to 2018.21.9 by the service center while my car was there, I’ve unfortunately been subject to the much more frequent nags to hold the steering wheel, which as we now know is a misnomer as it still goes off even if you’re holding the steering wheel (it apparently needs constant torque - queue the “Red Bull cans attached to the wheel” videos...)

    Anyway, I decided to do some testing for myself to understand the new logic that Tesla implemented in 2018.21.9, and I discovered that the nags don’t seem to be TIME-based as we previously thought - they appear to be DISTANCE-based!

    As I was traveling on highway 101 south of San Francisco, which is a fairly straight and flat road, I was following traffic at variable speeds of ~30 to 65 mph. What tipped me off was that the time intervals between which the nags appeared varied greatly, between ~30 seconds to about a minute. And they were inversely proportional to the speed at which I was traveling (the slower I went, the longer the time intervals between nags).

    So I started to measure the distance between nags by resetting one of the trip meters, and bingo: “Hold Steering Wheel” nags appeared every 0.6 miles!

    Has anyone else noticed this?

    (Note that I’ve only tested while following other cars, I’ll test more without traffic ahead tomorrow on my way to Tahoe).

    -Marc
     
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  2. xsi123

    xsi123 Member

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    Maybe it is every 0.62 miles which makes it exactly every 1 Kilometer ?
     
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  3. jeffpaul

    jeffpaul Member

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    I think it's always been distance based (somewhat). I know if I'm sitting in stop and go traffic inching along it doesn't happen nearly as often. It could be something like 0.62 miles or x seconds, whichever comes first.
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    Until and including 2018.18, which is the version I had before this one, I saw no evidence of “timed” or distance-based nags. They came up based on conditions where AP lost enough confidence (and didn’t detect hands on the wheel, of course) for example: steep turn, faded lane markings, etc.

    On the roads I travel daily, there’s a massive difference with this latest version (refer to the main 2018.21.9 thread for more details).
     
  5. BigD0g

    BigD0g Active Member

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    It’s a combination of distance and current speed the faster you go the more nags if your in standstill traffic less nags
     
  6. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Oh look... ANOTHER thread about this... Really people? Really????

    Still haven't gotten a single nag on 2018.21.9... Hm... I wonder why?....

    Jeff
     
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  7. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    One more bit of data: the “timer” seems to reset when you auto lane change with AP engaged. So if I have AP on, and ask it to change lanes 0.3 miles since the last nag, it will not nag me until I’ve hit another 0.6 miles - so 0.9 miles total. Fascinating!
     
  8. P100DHG.

    P100DHG. Supporting Member

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    Do you not have AP? ;)
     
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  9. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    LOL :p Indeed I do, use it every day...

    Jeff
     
  10. Maximapolak

    Maximapolak Member

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    You must be keeping your hands on the wheel like you’re supposed to. Lol
     
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  11. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    So I did more testing over a couple hundred miles this morning with little traffic in front of me, and the average distance seems to be closer to 0.5 miles with slight variations.

    At higher speeds (~80mph) it seems to be closer to 0.4 miles, whereas at slower speeds it’s more like 0.6 miles. The accuracy of the trip meter isn’t great, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this had something to do with the variance.
     
  12. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    This is not new with the version. I assume it see activity like torque on the steering wheel. I believe it does the same when you change the TACC Speed but not sure.
     
  13. Electroman

    Electroman Active Member

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    Time to stop at the store and get some Oranges.
     
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  14. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Active Member

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    That's the big problem. The current system does not measure your hands being on the wheel. A good driver with a light touch will cause the nag to go off very quickly.

    Drivers that drive heavy handed, pushing the car to a spot in the lane that isn't where it wants to be are the one who never trips the nag.

    I drive with a light touch, I just know that I have to add torque, which is unnatural for me, but I do it.
     
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  15. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Supporting Member

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    @MarcG , thank you for your research into this. I drove from LA to Fresno and back in 1 day last weekend with no issues. I received this firmware upgrade a few days ago and made the same trip today. Until my trip, I did not know about the nag changes. The nag was clearly new, and, incredibly annoying. I timed it: exactly 20 seconds each time, going between 70-75 MPH. I ended up shoving a large pack of baby wipes (I happened to have with me) inside the top opening of the steering wheel, jamming it into the notch on the left side. It made access to the turn signal a little wonky, but the nags completely disappeared. The torque was needed, because on straight-aways, I would still get the nag even with both hands on the wheel at all times.
     
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  16. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Went on a 250 mile road trip yesterday, and got about 10 nags total, all when I forgot to hold the wheel or not firmly (anti-movement). Traffic was mostly local divided highways (a bit on 95 hereabouts, most on 29 and 17, for those that know NoVa and the area a bit south).

    When I started, first real experience with 2018.21.9, I got several nags, then used two hands, 9 and 3 o’clock, and just resisted the turn of the wheel slightly. After that, no nags at all until I had too light a touch. And I could see the bar flashing at the top of the binnacle in my peripheral vision, so it never progressed to ‘audio warnings’. But I can definitely see how some would not be able to see the top edgle of the binnacle.
     
  17. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    That's new behavior. I used to wonder if changing lanes counted as "touching the steering wheel" and experimentation seemed to show that it did not, at least not long ago.
     
  18. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Does it seem like the amount of torque you need to apply, and/or its necessary duration, has increased? I just did a four-hour r/t drive today and the amount of wiggling that used to be sufficient to shut up the nag (even when my hands were on the wheel the entire time) no longer shuts it up.
     
  19. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    The point is that it’s not wiggling. You should try holding the wheel from turning. When AP feels you stopping the wheel from turning it won’t nag. I got about 10 nags in 300 miles and that included getting used to it and when I was hands off testing.
     
  20. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Did two 200 mile drives over the last few days, with AutoSteer engaged for most of those drives.

    The nag only came on when I had my hands away from the steering wheel long enough to pull a drink out of our cooler and open it - the nag reminder was reasonable.

    Other than that, I didn't get any nags - and typically hold the steering wheel lightly on the bottom, while AutoSteer is engaged.

    We will hopefully get our new X this week - and will have a second car (with the newer AP2 hardware) to compare with our S 100D's AP2.
     

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