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New Long Range Model S
- Thread starter nikj
- Start date
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Yeah, but it definitely puts a dent in the ‘supercar’ glow around the Roadster that it’s gonna get outperformed by a 4-door family sedan.
Btw, I’m sure the Roadster WILL come out, it’s just on ‘Elon Time’, aka slower than initially promised.
But, I never bet against Elon *eventually* delivering what he says he’s gonna deliver (and more).
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FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Acceleration. But you knew that.
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Wait? What Roadster are you talking about?
OK, I thought a little about it. You must be referring to the 0-60. I think the Roadster might be matched in that metric only because we are at the limit of performance (tire grip). Do you think the same setup* is going to cause the larger heavier car to 'outperform' the smaller/lighter car in the 1/4? To top speed?
*I say same setup knowing that the layout (pack) may be different but still using the carbon sleeved rotor motor (that's fun to say) and new 4680 battery tech. Based on predicted range I think the Roadster will have at least the same pack size as the Plaid+.
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Someone asked Elon about this. Since the Plaid+ equals the Roadster stats....how fast will the Roadster be. He said it will be much faster. As my previous LT4 owning brother points out, getting two cars below 2 seconds to 60 and then having a meaningful gap between the two will be very hard. Now that the Plaid+ is so fast I’ve come to wonder if all Roadsters will have the SpaceX cold gas thrusters on them.
The carbon sleeve on the rotor reduces eddy currents which cause back EMF which is the reason Tesla's motors designs to date all lose a lot of power at high RPMs.
Reference:
https://www.arnoldmagnetics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ArnoldWP_-Automotive_FINAL-1.pdf
However, by using a non-magnetic material such as Arnold’s Wraptite carbon fiber sleeving, you can eliminate these eddy current losses in the rotor sleeve. Using a carbon fiber sleeve means the gap between the sleeve surface and the stator surface is only a function of mechanical tolerance requirements. Carbon fiber is also less dense than steel, so it results in better balance and rotor dynamic characteristics. The low density also provides higher containment capability since it reduces self-induced stresses at high RPM.
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Gosh, you sure seem to be confused easily. First you thought we were talking about luggage, now you’re not even sure which Roadster is being discussed.
If this keeps up, you really should see someone about that. Just sayin’.
All kidding aside though, I don’t think I’m being too unreasonable in my assessment/speculation.. Tesla has spec’d the Roadster at 1.9 secs in the 0-60, the Plaid at 1.99, and the Plaid+ at ‘< 1.99 secs’. The Roadster and the Plaid are clearly in the same ballpark.
BUT, what’s interesting to me is, just how much faster will the Plaid+ be than the Plaid (and quite possibly the Roadster)? ‘< 1.99 secs’ leaves a lot of leeway.
One thing we do know is that the Plaid+ will likely have *at least* 33% more battery than the Plaid, since the Plaid is spec’d @390 miles of range, and the Plaid+ at ‘520+ miles’, and both are very similar form-factor cars.
So, with that much more battery compared to a vehicle that’s ALREADY doing 1.99 sec 0-60s... just how much faster does the Plaid+ then get? Hmm.
You gotta admit, it’s interesting. And it makes me wonder if the Roadster’s gonna have to ‘up its game’ with a spec bump prior to launch, in order to justify its very hefty pricetag.
That’s all I wanted to point out. You can now go back to being ‘confused’, if you like.
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LT4 was making a joke about the fact you seem confused. No need to spin it. The Plaid+ will not be as fast as the Roadster. This has been widely discussed and mentioned me Elon, as mentioned above. The stats on the website aren’t updated.
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Sorry, but LT pretending to not understand me doesn’t qualify as me being ‘confused’. Nice try, though.
Link? Vid clip? What’s Elon referring to specifically, top speed?
If so, we already know that part, Roadster’s spec’d with a 250 mph top speed... which is 100% totally unusable in regular day-to-day driving (well, unless you wanna die), unlike 0-60 times.
Anyway, what’s with you guys? You seem offended by my comments. I simply pointed out that the Plaid+ is so quick that it may threaten the Roadster’s perceived price-to-Performance (it does cost $60-110K more than the Plaid+, after all), which is not at all saying that the Roadster sucks,...unless one is very defensive about such things.
The Roadster can be less than a totally unmatched performance Godzilla and still be a compelling buy for some, if one happens to absolutely love the form factor and top-down driving in general.
But $200-250K seems pricey, unless you fit into that category.
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tonybelding
Active Member
I fit into that category. I love the form factor and top-down driving in general.
It does annoy me a little when people treat the Roadster, or EVs in general, as dragsters, as though acceleration is the only metric, or even as if acceleration-per-dollar is the only metric. If you are into actual drag racing, that's fine. Me, I'm not.
The new Roadster is indeed pricey. Thanks to TSLA and some other circumstances, I can swing it if I decide I really want one. On the other hand. . . If GM were to roll out a BEV Corvette tomorrow, or Lotus rolled out a BEV Elan or Esprit, or even Mazda were to unveil the BEV Miata that so many have wished for, it's possible that I could be lured away from the costly-and-delayed Roadster.
What's not going to lure me away from the Roadster is the Model S Plaid, because that's not the category of car I am shopping for.
12Pack
Member
That roadster was always going to be problematic. For it to get off the line with so much instant torque, it will need weight. And if it’s heavy, it won’t really be a fun track car. It will have to resort to Corvette-type design to compensate. Stupidly wide rubber is nice for ultimate grip but terrible for the quick body rotation that makes for fun performance driving. Something I’m afraid Elon knows nothing about.
The thing that gives me hope for the Roadster is that he owned and loved his McLaren F1. He understands what makes a truly phenomenal drivers car. It will be very interesting how it all finally comes together.
But I am NOT understanding you. You really think the Roadster is going to be 'capped' at old numbers when the Plaid was just released with those specs? You really think the Plaid+ is going to outperform the Roadster? I honestly don't understand that.
This I can understand. Your original comment was about "a four door family sedan outperforming" the Roadster.
Well. I've seen the Drag Times episode where they were going to race the Ludi S against another bada$$ car but it ended up raining that day. Brooks ended up going out in the S and in the rain ran a 2.7 0-60. I have run mine in the rain and although there is a difference, I think the traction control is just ridiculous in these cars and that will really help in this department. Plus I don't think we can pretend that this is going to be a sub 3000 LB car either. The batteries are not going to be light. I am really looking forward to the release even though I will have to wait for a nice used one down the road.
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