The P85D I am looking at has air suspension and rear facing seats which I’m not too crazy about. I figure I can take those out relatively to get the same room as the regular 5 seater model S?
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New M3P vs.Used P85D+
- Thread starter Sappy02
- Start date
The P85D I am looking at has air suspension and rear facing seats which I’m not too crazy about. I figure I can take those out relatively to get the same room as the regular 5 seater model S?
Thanks for this. Looking at the negatives, I would say the wear and tear is definitely a factor. Not sure if the fact that there are fewer parts than a similarly spec’ed ICE vehicle makes it less of an issue though. I actually like having a key fob.
Does the model s have a wiper Service feature like the model x does?
D
Interesting. Would you turn in your model 3 if you found a perfect p85d? What price point would make the p85d a good deal?
I have and drive both regularly. Asking me to choose one is like asking me to choose which child is my favorite.
If I’m just running a quick errand in town by myself, I would take the P3D. It’s fun zipping around in the smaller and lighter car. Easier to park.
For longer trips or hauling more people or things, I would take the P85D. P85D sits 5 people much more comfortably. Also AP1 is still smoother and more predictable than AP2. And if you can find one with Ludicrous Mode, it’s almost a half second quicker than the P3D which is quite noticeable.
What is your take on the rear facing seats? Worth it or they take up trunk space?
How much battery does Ludicrous mode use up? It appears that the p85d battery only gets about 253 miles of range compared to the 315 for the model 3.
What do you mean by rollout? Is there something that’s causing the vehicle to hold back in the initial acceleration?
Lol. So true. Lack of side cameras in AP1 means less for the car to see, think, or worry about.
Eventually AP2 will be better but right now on well marked roads, AP1 lane keeping and TACC is bliss. AP1 lane changing requires an attentive driver manually checking blind spots but it works much more reliably and predictably than AP2 lane changing which right now feels like you’re asking a Magic 8 ball for a decision. That plus the phantom breaking makes me prefer AP1 over AP2 at this point.
Interesting take on AP1 vs. AP2. With my model x I’ve gotten used to the way it functions. I guess we are saying here that AP1 is more smooth than AP2 but also requires the driver to be more attentive.
For my family, the Model S rear facing seats are something we only use in a pinch. Ventilation isn't great back there. We stopped using them all together after we got the Model X. I do open them up whenever I display my car at electric car events, etc., And they're nice to sit in for tailgate parties, watching fireworks, etc.,
If driven the same way, Ludicrous Mode has no affect on range vs Chill or Sport Mode.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/motor-trend-testing/
Exactly. AP1 only has 1 camera looking forward. AP2+ has 8 cameras with 360 degree coverage.
Camera-Cruiser
Fully Charged
@Sappy02 The truth.
If you want 310 miles in fair New York late Spring thru early Fall weather then it’s the long range 3, end of story at 100% charge. 90% real world will be 260 - 285 miles on good days/weeks.
If you want really strong butterfly feeling acceleration and about 230ish miles range in same weather than a P3D will work well.
If you want to feel like your being shot out of a cannon whenever you stomp on the accelerator then get whatever P version of the S you can afford. But you aren’t getting 3 type range unless you are getting a fairly new 90, or a 100. A good P85 will realistically get 185 to 210 miles in fair weather, with a little stomping. Lots of fun will lessen that range.
Your mileage may vary, but it’s close. Not rated miles, but actual. Winter will be 30-50% less.
You can google roll out.
If you want 310 miles in fair New York late Spring thru early Fall weather then it’s the long range 3, end of story at 100% charge. 90% real world will be 260 - 285 miles on good days/weeks.
If you want really strong butterfly feeling acceleration and about 230ish miles range in same weather than a P3D will work well.
If you want to feel like your being shot out of a cannon whenever you stomp on the accelerator then get whatever P version of the S you can afford. But you aren’t getting 3 type range unless you are getting a fairly new 90, or a 100. A good P85 will realistically get 185 to 210 miles in fair weather, with a little stomping. Lots of fun will lessen that range.
Your mileage may vary, but it’s close. Not rated miles, but actual. Winter will be 30-50% less.
You can google roll out.
Glamisduner
Active Member
The S I drove still had poor wiper performance, but at least there was a knob to adjust it instead off having to use the touch screen or rely on auto. I think it had a service feature.
The parts are more expensive in the S, and i worry on older 2014 or so about things like the auto presenting door handles and air suspension. I think they have these things mostly dialed in now but they had issues back then. I think s door handle fix is like $1500 or something crazy. Perhaps they have better cold weather performance though. I do like the S handles better but it would be a concern getting an older used model for example. Also if you go this route make sure you examine the screen closely. The loaner I had, had bubbles in the screen and it looked noticably washed out. My friends 2017 the screen is turning yellow sounds the edges. Warranty is shorter on used so you really need to inspect the car for stuff like this.
The biggest thing is the battery though, I would want one with unlimited mile warranty myself. Battery warranties vary allot on the Tesla website and prices seem to vary accordingly, most are MUCH shorter than a new one and you don't know if the previous owner charged to 100% every day or 70%. This might not matter if you don't plan to keep the car for a long time. I do assume performance versions have been driven harder than non performance versions though.
The range on 80% daily charge was much shorter for me than 70% on the model 3, but the loaner i had was just the RWD version which probably isn't as efficient. When just cruising the S was way less efficient than me P3D. I ended up charging it to 90% daily instead of 75-78 like I do on my 3, and it still had less range.
Diriver needs to be attentive no matter which version of AP. AP2.5 is sightly less predictable but i like it better. Cars don't show up on the screen with AP1, and like I said my loaner car had more issues detecting lane lines with AP1. But sometimes AP2.5 still pisses me off. But AP2+ is still getting updates, and also had more features, like auto park, and summon.
The S with air suspension was quieter and smoother ride, the 3 was more nimble but stiffer. The S interior was much nicer in the show room, but after diving the 3 it feels bulky and wasteful. The S I had didn't even have a center console.
Oh and the panel gaps on my loaner S were really bad. I had a guy at work ask me if one of the rear small windows was falling out!
One last thing if you're on TOU plan the efficiency might really matter, several times I had to limit the charge cut off on the S to stay within my cheap charging hours, much mess likely to need to do this in the 3. I even broke out the bigger 40 amp wall connector for the S, it needs it!
Not bashing the S it's as beautiful car, just some thing's I noticed which may not even be important to you.
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Lifeinabox
Member
$55K seems to be the strike point on a good conditioned (based on the low res Dropbox photos, mind you) with 4 year warranty. I’m still leaning picking up my P3D. It’s really my wife who is in my ear about how the Model 3 is too small for our family use. She prefers I replace my P85 with a P85
Lifeinabox
Member
$55K seems to be the strike point on a good conditioned (based on the low res Dropbox photos, mind you) with 4 year warranty. I’m still leaning picking up my P3D. It’s really my wife who is in my ear about how the Model 3 is too small for our family use. She prefers I replace my P85 with a P85D IF I must upgrade.
Another, more expensive, option is a post refresh P90D. I see 5 under $72K and the cheapest one is $67,400. I assume you will drop $71K or so on a P3D, but (of course) that is $61K after the fed/state rebate (assumes delivery this year). I have considered going to another used Model S (from my current P85+), but I'd like the car to be a bit more "different" than my current S which pushes me to the facelift models. They are still a bit pricey relative to the P85Ds of course.
IslandHydro
Member
I'm in the same quandary, although my decision is pretty well made. I have a large dog (and likely will until I can't), and the S is my only option. If that weren't the case, I'd likely go for the 3 because of updated tech, more nimble etc. But I'm am nonetheless really looking forward to the P85D. The fact that it is a larger - more comfortable rocket balances the somewhat more dated (but groundbreaking) tech and smaller car nimbleness. Getting a 4-year / 50k warranty also helps ease the fears of costly repairs. I'm solidly in the camp that the massively lower number of moving parts (for either car, as compared to an ICE) will lend itself to longevity (fingers crossed).
NeverFollow
Active Member
Unless you care about getting a sedan instead of a more practical hatch back, for any EV the most important is the battery.
With the Model 3 you get a NEW battery with 8 years 120k miles warranty and 2170 cells instead of the 18650 4 years old cells.
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Yeah I think speed is not everything and the range you get with the p85d is not the same as with the p3d. That means making more pit stops along the way.
Getting the latest technology is definitely a plus.
As for the P3D, what’s the deal you are getting on that car. Maybe that would tip the scale.
Wow, I felt completely the opposite except on the quality level with the S85. Shouldn't the P85D have MORE range than the P85 since the motors are in the opposite orientation on the model S (honest question)? I felt the range hit on the S85 a few times while I had it for a loaner. I made it home on like 5% battery once after not being able to charge for a day due to a power outage (This is just my commute to work and back). Sure I could have paid to go 1/2 hour out of my way down town (supercharging is free but access to it is not), or I could have stopped and waited for the cluster-F that is known as qualcomm to charge, but I did make it home.
I think it showed I had 80 miles of range and I have a 40 mile commute but boy did that number start dropping fast when I had to use my defroster. Model 3 has much better range and efficiency than the S85 I would think the P85D might be comparable to the S85 for range? Where can I look this up? All I could find quickly on google was this chart.
Just because you get free supercharging does not mean you want to waste your time doing it. I have stopped all of one time with the 3 and that was just to try it. I tried once with the S but I didn't want to wait in line behind 4 other model S's waiting for a chance to charge!
Honestly I would not buy an EV if I could not charge at home or at work, I value my time. I have free supercharging right now but every day I can either drive a 1/2 hour out of my way and charge for an hour for free (or more if there is a line), or drive an hour out of my way to the charger with no line, then wait to charge, or I can go home and plug in and spend a few bucks to charge over night. Guess which option I pick EVERY single time.
I didn't drive a P85D but, when it rained the S85 would slip the back wheels when I floored it. The P3D feels much more planted with it's AWD, so I'd assume I would want at least an 85D for better efficiency and more stability when the roads are covered in oil.
Thank you for this response. Noted that the p3d feels much more planted when it’s AWD. Although I would think you would get the same feedback on an AWD MS.
As far as free supercharging, it’s certainly a benefit when I have a supercharging station 5 min drive from home. Currently my condo association charges $35 per month usage fee and $1.50 per hour of charging at a rate of 6.6 kWh. Assuming 22 charging sessions of 6 hours each every month with 30-36 kWh of charge in the car, that comes out to $200 per month. Over three years, that’s $7,200 savings. Even with paying for supercharger use, that’s still $3,600 cheaper than using my condo association charger.
Perry
Active Member
The 3 handles way better. The P85D feels like a boat after you drive the 3 because it is so damn heavy. You will hate it on the corners.
Perry
Active Member
What? No. The opposite. The P85D is a large comfortable vehicle with slow corner response and easy battery overheat which limits acceleration. Also its traction control is way to aggressive on the corners. It is not a driver's car.
On the other hand the P3D is truly a driver's car. Its still overheats sooner than I like but not as fast as the P85D. It is much nimbler on the corners and the traction control doesn't limit acceleration as much so you can slide it a little. Overall feels tighter like a German car.
Perry
Active Member
The model 3 actually has a lot of rear trunk space. Before ruling it out as not having enough space I suggest looking at it first as you will be surprised. I know all the people I show my car to always comment on how large the rear trunk is. It is the largest trunk I have ever had on a car and I have mostly owned large luxury sedans. Although I do wish it had auto open/close like the S.
Perry
Active Member
Not on the track. Track speed is not just takeoff speed. It is maintaining corner speed and maintaining full power output. The S overheats too soon thus it becomes slower than a P3 after just one lap and corners so poorly because you can't maintain corner speed. Acceleration is slower on the 3 but only slightly so and only on first lap. So if we go on feel alone, the P3D feels like a more agile car and a lot more fun to drive.
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