New member considerations for used P90D?

[wallicimo]

Hi all, being an auto enthusiast I've always been interested in the performance variants of the model S, but know very little about them WRT cost of ownership/unforeseen costs/battery life expectancy/etc. so I figured there would be no better venue to gather information than this forum.

I have always had vast ICE vehicles, but am not opposed to an EV and Tesla is the only variant i'm currently considering. I have a slightly modified Trackhawk FWIW that can hit 0-60 in 3.1 seconds regularly. I know the P90D ludicrous mode Teslas are a bit quicker (I think ~2.8 0-60) but lose steam up top (not a demerit to me).

To me, the gas saving and environmental aspects are not on the top of my decision making tree but longevity and maintenance for things that are seemingly out of warranty on a 4 year old car (looking at 2016/17 MY) are what have me worried. You can fix parts in an ICE engine as things wear, but if your battery dies or some electrical component must be replaced on a Tesla, the out of pocket costs go up exponentially (right?)?

So my major questions are-
What is the expected battery life of a P90D with ludicrous mode (spare me the "it varies based on driver" comment)?
Is buying a used Tesla with ~50k miles a bad idea (I've heard horror stories about brake replacement costs out of warranty)?
Are there any major differences in MY from a 16' up that might have you experts considering a later generation?
Do any of you regret going from a fast petrol vehicle to the tesla?
What should I stay away from?
What should I look for when researching used models (screen yellowing/etc.)?

Sorry for the long post, but I know it is best to be thorough when considering spending around 60-75k on a car

Thanks in advance!

 

[Huachipato]

I'll just say, the longer you hang out around here, the more scared you will get about these cars.

However, here are a few things you should know:
Drive Units and Battery have 8 year unlimited mile warranty (this recently just changed for newer cars). So with a 2017 you don't have worry about battery replacement till after 2025.
Brakes are Brakes - I just did the fronts on mine (new rotors and pads) by buying the parts from Brembo and having a local mechanic install them.
Had a Cobra convertible before - now '15 P85D - the Tesla is easier to drive fast in normal street situation. I regret I can't blast the exhaust note under the highway or tunnels and the open top drives - but otherwise I don't miss too much. On a daily basis this car has been perfect.

I bought mine in July 2019 with 60K miles on it. So far it has been pretty good to me. Brakes, a few cosmetic fixes that I did myself, and using Tesla Mobil service for a second key have all been good experiences so far.

Funny enough - there is a video Rich just made on how to inspect these cars.

 

[2101Guy]

"Are there any major differences in MY from a 16' up that might have you experts considering a later generation?"

Is Full Self Driving a must? Then you want to get a version that has cameras on the front fenders. (Typically 2017 or beyond).

Is having ability to watch netflix/youtube and full Sentry mode available? Then you want one that has whats known as MCU2. (Typically 2018 or beyond)

Is having not just air suspension, but air suspension that automatically/constantly adapts to road conditions (smooth vs bumpy roads) necessary? Then you'll want a "raven" version (Typically 2019 model year or later).

When I say "typically" it means could vary by month within the year.

As you can see, buying a used Tesla typically requires a lot more research than with ICE vehicles.

 

[Simon_Emes]

Rich Rebuilds sums it up nicely. Without a proper inspection or better some warranty left I wouldn't recommend a used Tesla.

If you have some third party garage around like his electrified garage it could work out, but if you need to stick to a budget and maybe have to wait for used parts it can't be your sole daily driver.

Other than that - pure joy to drive!

 

[SoCal Buzz]

Hi all, being an auto enthusiast I've always been interested in the performance variants of the model S, but know very little about them WRT cost of ownership/unforeseen costs/battery life expectancy/etc. so I figured there would be no better venue to gather information than this forum.

I have always had vast ICE vehicles, but am not opposed to an EV and Tesla is the only variant i'm currently considering. I have a slightly modified Trackhawk FWIW that can hit 0-60 in 3.1 seconds regularly. I know the P90D ludicrous mode Teslas are a bit quicker (I think ~2.8 0-60) but lose steam up top (not a demerit to me).

To me, the gas saving and environmental aspects are not on the top of my decision making tree but longevity and maintenance for things that are seemingly out of warranty on a 4 year old car (looking at 2016/17 MY) are what have me worried. You can fix parts in an ICE engine as things wear, but if your battery dies or some electrical component must be replaced on a Tesla, the out of pocket costs go up exponentially (right?)?

So my major questions are-
What is the expected battery life of a P90D with ludicrous mode (spare me the "it varies based on driver" comment)?
Is buying a used Tesla with ~50k miles a bad idea (I've heard horror stories about brake replacement costs out of warranty)?
Are there any major differences in MY from a 16' up that might have you experts considering a later generation?
Do any of you regret going from a fast petrol vehicle to the tesla?
What should I stay away from?
What should I look for when researching used models (screen yellowing/etc.)?

Sorry for the long post, but I know it is best to be thorough when considering spending around 60-75k on a car

Thanks in advance!

You won't miss driving an ICE, that's for sure. I still smile (almost) every time I get in the car after 6+ years. Since you are looking at a '16 / '17 car with 50K + miles, you have warranty on the battery and motor. My only real concern would be failure of a more significant part with known issues (MCU1 / flash memory, DC-DC converter / heater). The potential MCU failure can be proactively addressed with flash upgrade. Perhaps just factor in $2000 repair budget into your mindset on the purchase, and then don't worry about it.

As a side note, the savings add up quickly when you consider no gas, very infrequent brake replacement, no annual maintenance (except air filters every couple years), etc. So make sure to add back the upside. And finally, make sure you complete a good inspection to avoid any surprises on charging range, suspension, hidden damages.

 

[wallicimo]

These are exactly the replies I was looking for, thanks all! Do any of you wish you had self-driving after having experienced it or rather wish you didn't spend the extra cash on it once you had it? I'm anxious enough that I don't think I could relinquish driving controls to anyone/thing so I don't consider that to be a must-have. In regards to netflix/content delivery; I would only find that valuable for my kids sake as I don't believe, as mentioned previously, that I could take my eyes off the road even with the promise that I'll arrive safely at my destination (if it even works while moving).

Also, I'm not so much worried about the brake pads/rotors (I have done many sets myself), but more the issues with pistons locking up because they are rarely use due to the regenerative braking . . . maybe this was just an ultra rare occurrence and can be written off.

I'll watch the review and then bring some follow up questions to the table later tonight Thanks again so far everyone!!!

 

[trident]

"Are there any major differences in MY from a 16' up that might have you experts considering a later generation?"

Is Full Self Driving a must? Then you want to get a version that has cameras on the front fenders. (Typically 2017 or beyond).

Is having ability to watch netflix/youtube and full Sentry mode available? Then you want one that has whats known as MCU2. (Typically 2018 or beyond)

Is having not just air suspension, but air suspension that automatically/constantly adapts to road conditions (smooth vs bumpy roads) necessary? Then you'll want a "raven" version (Typically 2019 model year or later).

When I say "typically" it means could vary by month within the year.

As you can see, buying a used Tesla typically requires a lot more research than with ICE vehicles.

 

[trident]

Don't expect FSD anytime soon, as "soon" as explained to me by a Tesla sales could be anytime. If you pay for it you may or may not get it as we all have learned it is a sliding time update.

 

[2101Guy]

These are exactly the replies I was looking for, thanks all! Do any of you wish you had self-driving after having experienced it or rather wish you didn't spend the extra cash on it once you had it? I'm anxious enough that I don't think I could relinquish driving controls to anyone/thing so I don't consider that to be a must-have. In regards to netflix/content delivery; I would only find that valuable for my kids sake as I don't believe, as mentioned previously, that I could take my eyes off the road even with the promise that I'll arrive safely at my destination (if it even works while moving).

Also, I'm not so much worried about the brake pads/rotors (I have done many sets myself), but more the issues with pistons locking up because they are rarely use due to the regenerative braking . . . maybe this was just an ultra rare occurrence and can be written off.

I'll watch the review and then bring some follow up questions to the table later tonight Thanks again so far everyone!!!

I still use my brakes daily, just not as often as with ICE cars. And when I do use them, since its in conjunction with regen, i use the brakes less heavily. I think its the cars in the northeast/midwest that tend to have corrosion related issues with their brake systems. No different from ICE cars.

The basic autopilot (active cruise control and self steering on the highway within your lane) is probably sufficient for most right now. I rarely use the Navigate on Auto Pilot because I tend to take over myself for exit ramps anyways. Plus, my regular driving is places I normally go and dont need navigation assistance. And when I do need navigation assistance, its not on highways. The lane change on the highway is nice, but to be honest, if I were to buy now? I'd be fine with the standard auto pilot that comes with the car. Oh, the Smart Summon (which I have) is mainly a novelty right now. I cant say it can consistently be trusted. (see my post from earlier today about Smart Summon taking the car up onto a curb). It's still VERY Beta.

 

[wallicimo]

Whoa! Smart summon would be cool, but I don't care for the free curb rash. Is the only way to determine the battery degradation to check the range once fully charged relative to the range when new?

 

[trident]

My smart summons drove right over a curb stop, lucky no damage. Never tried it again. But, I sure wish they would download some more games vs work on FSD.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

Whoa! Smart summon would be cool, but I don't care for the free curb rash. Is the only way to determine the battery degradation to check the range once fully charged relative to the range when new?

You could charge to 90% and get a pretty good idea by extrapolating. ~10% range loss or better would be "normal." Probably good enough to feel comfortable there is not a real issue; 100% charge range would be nice to see.

Regarding your question on AutoPilot, I concur with 2101Guy. FSD is vaporware today, Summon is a parlor trick and NoAP doesn't add a ton of value with auto lane changes. But... Active Speed Control and Steering are awesome. I cannot imagine not having those at this point. One of the Enhanced AutoPilot cars provides the best of both worlds. I don't recall what they were selling in '16 / '17, but you should definitely get base AP (or upgrade after purchase for a $$$).

 

[Shadious]

I’d suggest either AP1 or MCU2 with AP2.5. Don’t get stuck in no man’s land with MCU 1 and AP2 you will likely never get the upgraded MCU.

Also, the following items will fail:
MCU eMMC
Door handles
MCU 1 screen bubbles
Instrument Cluster screen bubbling
Door seals and sunroof seals.

I did most of the those fixes in my own (with some help from this forum). Other stuff done by Tesla. So I would say either get a warranty or get comfortable with doing some stuff on your own.

the performance versions are awesome, enjoy !!!

 

[beatle]

+1 to FSD not being worth it at this time. Since you seem to be a car enthusiast, you probably enjoy actually driving. I use AP (my car is only AP1) on highway trips and in heavy traffic. It is a godsend for those situations, but I never wish the car would take exit ramps or navigate surface streets for me.

Some of the 85 and 90 cars have had sub-par batteries. Some 85 cars have had their voltage capped which brings down range and performance, and some of the earlier 90 cars have had higher than average degradation to the point that they are no better than an 85, and are in some cases, worse. As others have said, checking the rated miles at a known percentage will give you an idea of how the battery is doing.

Check for "death rattle" or shudder under hard acceleration. The front clevis mount is weak and can cause the half shafts to fail. There is a TSB that explains this. It is a few thousand to fix outside of warranty.

Ensure all the features you expect the car to have are on the MVPA before you take delivery of the car. Tesla has recently pulled features away from some cars that they said were not actually part of it. This is nonsense. I lost ludicrous mode (ended up getting it back) and others have lost FSD.

 

[wallicimo]

Thanks guys! This is super helpful. I am having a hard time understanding whether I would be getting a value or not and I don't want to be the biggest fool on the street for buying something either overpriced or underpriced due to issues. That being said, I don't understand why all P90DLs are for sale in the high 70s with 50k miles but one is listed for 60k with 47k miles. Here is the car in particular...if anything stands out i would love to have you guys save me...I don't mind being called ignorant if it saves my bank account

Autotrader - page unavailable

 

[Vegas]

Do any of you regret going from a fast petrol vehicle to the tesla?

I'm a committed petrol head - decades of V8 only for me including Ferrari., corvette camaro. Paid a small fortune many times for good sounding exhausts etc. I've had a P90D now for 4.5 years - the best car I've ever had - just in respect to performance versus cost. While the MS is a bit heavy in corners - it exceeds in everything else including flogging motorcycles from the lights. You will not miss ICE.

Recommend you check battery range (mines V1battery and still 470klms Rated range). Go for free supercharging if you can.

 

[trident]

Thanks guys! This is super helpful. I am having a hard time understanding whether I would be getting a value or not and I don't want to be the biggest fool on the street for buying something either overpriced or underpriced due to issues. That being said, I don't understand why all P90DLs are for sale in the high 70s with 50k miles but one is listed for 60k with 47k miles. Here is the car in particular...if anything stands out i would love to have you guys save me...I don't mind being called ignorant if it saves my bank account

Autotrader - page unavailable

 

[trident]

You live in TX, you can take over my lease on a 2019 75D with 5,000 miles, 24 months left and FSD. Pick it up in Dallas.

 

[wallicimo]

Thanks for the offer trident, but the anything less than a P90DL will leave me regretting selling my Jeep :/ Vegas, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you!

 

[2101Guy]

Thanks guys! This is super helpful. I am having a hard time understanding whether I would be getting a value or not and I don't want to be the biggest fool on the street for buying something either overpriced or underpriced due to issues. That being said, I don't understand why all P90DLs are for sale in the high 70s with 50k miles but one is listed for 60k with 47k miles. Here is the car in particular...if anything stands out i would love to have you guys save me...I don't mind being called ignorant if it saves my bank account

Autotrader - page unavailable

Ive always been a bit skeptical of those little independent corner lots. Often they get them from auction, do minimal work to pass state inspection (if there is a state inspection), wash and shiny up the tires, markup high, then sell. If I were looking for used Tesla right now, my only option would be via Tesla themselves (to get some warranty left) or via one of the websites that allow direct sale between Tesla owner and Tesla buyer. And even then, I'd most likely want to take the car to a local SC for some sort of (paid) pre purchase inspection.