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New member questions - help appreciated :)

poolmeds

Member
Jul 10, 2019
51
11
essex
Hi all

So I am new hear but i have watched 356,634 hours of tesla videos on youtube! :)

I am just about to get rid of my Audi RS3 as it is as the end of the PCP.
I am 100% buying a tesla and have test driven a model 3 long range and a model x performance.

I only wish to buy a performance/ludicrous version - just personal preference and since im coming from the RS3.

I want decent space and acceleration so I am now thinking either model S or X.

i have a few questions and any feedback VERY much appreciated!

> I saw a 2017 model x today for £79k with 25k miles (P100D) but i have no idea if thats a good price?
also, no idea if a 2017 version still gets unlimited supercharger access for free?
also, does a 2017 model still be capable of all updates - is there anything inferior to be aware of or older batteries less effective etc?
the rear gull doors didnt seem to open as high, you had to go around them?
also, looks like real leather instead of vegan leather (i dont want real leather).
essentially, if i can save £25k with a used one then great but not if there are lots of drawbacks or inferior elements?

I havent driven the model S yet but looks amazing, is slightly cheaper and slightly faster

any thoughts on which people prefer?
any tips on what to look for when buying or tips for pricing? looks like end of quarter is best and that tesla never do discounts, just some free things like upgrades?

thanks all - sorry if this can all be found on the forum elsewhere
 

craigdi

Member
May 21, 2019
54
23
Scotland
Hi all

So I am new hear but i have watched 356,634 hours of tesla videos on youtube! :)

I am just about to get rid of my Audi RS3 as it is as the end of the PCP.
I am 100% buying a tesla and have test driven a model 3 long range and a model x performance.

I only wish to buy a performance/ludicrous version - just personal preference and since im coming from the RS3.

I want decent space and acceleration so I am now thinking either model S or X.

i have a few questions and any feedback VERY much appreciated!

> I saw a 2017 model x today for £79k with 25k miles (P100D) but i have no idea if thats a good price?
also, no idea if a 2017 version still gets unlimited supercharger access for free?
also, does a 2017 model still be capable of all updates - is there anything inferior to be aware of or older batteries less effective etc?
the rear gull doors didnt seem to open as high, you had to go around them?
also, looks like real leather instead of vegan leather (i dont want real leather).
essentially, if i can save £25k with a used one then great but not if there are lots of drawbacks or inferior elements?

I havent driven the model S yet but looks amazing, is slightly cheaper and slightly faster

any thoughts on which people prefer?
any tips on what to look for when buying or tips for pricing? looks like end of quarter is best and that tesla never do discounts, just some free things like upgrades?

thanks all - sorry if this can all be found on the forum elsewhere
Can't comment on the S or X, however I made the move from an RS3 to a M3P+ at the start of Oct and cannot get over how much faster it feels to my RS3. The acceleration is in another league. My friend has an RS6 and he and I had some fun driving on country roads in and around the Scottish borders. I lost him after a few miles.
 

poolmeds

Member
Jul 10, 2019
51
11
essex
hi!
thanks for reply!
yeah i would be going for the M3P but i need more space.
(what is the +? - i thought there was just the performance - is there a faster version now?)
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,748
32,073
Certainly there are many threads about this subject, and widely divergent opinions about which choice is preferable among the Tesla models.

First, current production models of both S and X have updated hardware that is called "Raven" that provides increased range and some modest other changes, but also come with current technology Tesla-designed processing chip that offers large capacity and processing speed advantages. Older models equipped with AP-2 or above will be upgradable to the processing but will not have the "Raven" improvements.

Second, every single "P" version of either S, X or 3 will provide significantly more responsive straight line performance than will your old car, or nearly anything else, for that matter.

Third, Most owners love both S and X. You should drive examples of both of them to decide which you prefer;
The X has much more space and once you're accustomed to it the X is very responsive and astonishingly flexible. Personally I hate large cars. Still, I often hire a Model X for trips, including a recent one that had me driving it into city centers of several ancient Italian cities. The X has less autonomy and slightly lower performance than does the S. I have driven Model X for ~20,000 miles or so and have been astonished at how flexible and superb it is.

The S has somewhat better acceleration and handling than does the X, and still can hold much more than you think it might. I had a P85D+ myself which once held a three seat sofa, much to the astonishment of onlookers. It is also a bit cheaper than is the X.

Were I in your situation I would try, if feasible, to buy as new one in order to have all the "Raven" advantages. Between S and X I'd probably dither. You'll not go wrong either way. One key advantage of the new one is that (assuming your frequent German Autobahn) you will be able to maintain >125 MPH for a longer time than you would in an older car because of improvements in heat management and efficiency in the "Raven" models. At lower speeds the increased effiency is the notable feature in those cars.

As for Free Supercharging, YMMV. Some promotions from Tesla, especially around quarter-end, do offer free lifetime supercharging, but if offered it is more often time limited (two months, six months, one year and two years have all been seen). Frankly, s one who has Lifetime Supercharging I may not be the ideal opinion offeror, but rationally even with paid Supercharging it will be much cheaper than buying fuel, changing oil and filters and having required annual maintenance costs. With your Tesla your largest cost will almost certainly be tyres. These days most used Teslae do not come with Lifetime Free Supercharging anyway.

All this does not really help, I imagine. Driving each of them will give you a notion of your personal preference. Whatever you decide be assured you'll not regret the choice!
 
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poolmeds

Member
Jul 10, 2019
51
11
essex
jbcarioca
thank you SO much for such great feedback!
the points around Raven etc are key - i now know i need to have raven.

great insight thanks!
 
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jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,748
32,073
hi!
thanks for reply!
yeah i would be going for the M3P but i need more space.
(what is the +? - i thought there was just the performance - is there a faster version now?)
We do have plenty of jargon, for good or ill.

the + and - mean different things for different models.

Model 3 Performance with Performance package is M3P+. That one has Brembo brakes and 20" wheels. M3P- or M3P stealth, has neither of those two, but is otherwise essentially identical. P85D+ P90D+ have Ludicrous speed vs the OEM Insane speed. Current production P100D IIRC correctly all come with Ludicrous speed. (sometime in the next year or so there will be a Plaid version which is even more insane than are the other two.)
 

Andywil

Member
Jul 14, 2019
90
64
North Yorkshire
Hi all

So I am new hear but i have watched 356,634 hours of tesla videos on youtube! :)

I am just about to get rid of my Audi RS3 as it is as the end of the PCP.
I am 100% buying a tesla and have test driven a model 3 long range and a model x performance.

I only wish to buy a performance/ludicrous version - just personal preference and since im coming from the RS3.

I want decent space and acceleration so I am now thinking either model S or X.

i have a few questions and any feedback VERY much appreciated!

> I saw a 2017 model x today for £79k with 25k miles (P100D) but i have no idea if thats a good price?
also, no idea if a 2017 version still gets unlimited supercharger access for free?
also, does a 2017 model still be capable of all updates - is there anything inferior to be aware of or older batteries less effective etc?
the rear gull doors didnt seem to open as high, you had to go around them?
also, looks like real leather instead of vegan leather (i dont want real leather).
essentially, if i can save £25k with a used one then great but not if there are lots of drawbacks or inferior elements?

I havent driven the model S yet but looks amazing, is slightly cheaper and slightly faster

any thoughts on which people prefer?
any tips on what to look for when buying or tips for pricing? looks like end of quarter is best and that tesla never do discounts, just some free things like upgrades?

thanks all - sorry if this can all be found on the forum elsewhere

That's nearly 42 years of videos!
 
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WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
5,758
2,928
Suffolk, UK
I only wish to buy a performance/ludicrous version - just personal preference and since im coming from the RS3.

I'm struggling to persuade myself that Performance is worth it for a replacement. I have Model-S P at present, almost never use the performance (since all those Launch Demos I did to mates in the first few months ...), and its a huge chunk-of-change.

Model-S LR 0-60 3.7s £78,690
Model-S-P 0-60 2.4s add £14,600

There are a couple of additional trim options available, a spoiler, but no other significant features that I can see

3.7s plenty quick enough, £14.6K not worth spending on improvement for the once in a blue moon that people would use it in normal driving ... well, after the novelty has worn off. Makes negligible difference overtaking, most of it is "off the line"

My favourite quote: "Faster than a Ferrari, more efficient and cheaper to run than a Prius" :)

Model-3 slightly different, and initially the price list massively favoured buying the P, but now:

Model-3 LR 0-60 4.4s £47,990
Model-3 P 0-60 3.2s add £5,000

So less uplift than Model-S LR / P, and definitely some additional features. However, one of those is 20" wheels which will hurt range, and ride.

I suspect that 4.4s EV will be faster, in practical terms, then RS3. The instant-ness of the torque will be far better, and (I haven't checked) I expect the normal "overtaking" MPH range will be significantly better in EV because it will be available instantly.

My old days in Boy Racer Petrol Mode:

"Sharp bend coming up, then a straight, possible overtake" so change down, noise and anticipation. come round bend and road ahead busy so change up again.

EV:

Follow car around bend, Blimey! Road Clear! SQUIRT and job done. Much much more enjoyable, and without all that drama-queen preamble.


If you don't have young kids that you need to get into car seats in the back, in the pouring rain (Falcon doors are great for that), or some other "cargo/passenger" hauling requirement I would avoid the X, unless you have fallen in love with The Look. Lots of mechanicals to go wrong and it is a bigger car when you want to hustle.

Model-S is a big car, and wallows in a bend (but v. low centre of gravity, so gets round them ok), but you may find, as I have done, that the sheer power means you change driving style and stop coming into blind bends at a speed where you couldn't possibly avoid an accident if there is some trauma around it, and instead come in at sensible speed, not leaning over unnervingly!, and then on exit FLOOR-IT. Great fun.

The Model-S is still pretty cavernous inside.

Model-3 has a boot, so although spacious, the space isn't as usable as a Hatchback would be.

I wouldn't worry about Free Supercharging (unless you are a travelling salesman). For Model-S its about 8p/mile, and for Model-3 6p / mile (home electricity on Off Peak around 3-4p / mile, even lower with some deals). The only days when you will need it are those where you go more than 150-200 miles (Model-3) or 200-250 miles Model-S LR Raven

I suggest you consider your long out-of-range trips (maybe you don't have any?!) A Better Route Planner will help you with comparing models, and where you would charge and for how long. Chargers are widespread, but non-Tesla 3rd party ones are universally dreadful ... so plan to only use them if no other alternative; if you can use A/C charging when you are parked up (at destination - Hotel / Golf / Client - or Work) for several hours then that is very worthwhile

On long trips you will most likely just be tootling along Motorway at e.g. 80, have significant stretches at 40-50 for roadworks / traffic, and 30 minutes of either of those will dramatically improve your range, so if ABRP is "a bit tight" then chances are good that you will make it conformable (and if not you can always slow down :) )
 

poolmeds

Member
Jul 10, 2019
51
11
essex
great reply thanks!!!

i think i need to let the emotional purchase urges to subside.
i left the test drive thinking 'i WANT an suv for space, i WANT the fastest, i WANT etc etc'

the S seems the best overall idea. is the X known for mechanical issues? im sure the 2017 one had the gull doors open less than the new one?

i just dont think the model 3 has enough room for a family for four with the children young so lots of baggage

thanks all!""
 

zayn

Member
Jun 3, 2019
415
127
London
for the op, you sound very undecided and nervous jumping into an EV, I would suggest you try the S and X first as well as the 3 and take your time before making a decision that meets your financial and practical requirements.
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,470
1,306
mid wales
Final car decisions are individual things. I have a 2018 S with EAP. I gave up on using NOA 'cos too much stress wondering what it;s going to do next. I do like autosteer and the ability to ask car to change lanes - longer motorway journeys can be relaxing if it's not too busy or if one is prepared to drive at german car speeds and risk the consequences and hog the fast lane (but I've grown up and don't do it very often). You can't consider it a nippy car - yes it'll accelerate fast and that's handy for getting past tractors on A roads and it'll stay on the road around bends but not a car I'd feel happy sliding - something I'd like to try somewhere safe one day but that's have to be on private ground whereas I'd feel reasonable comfortable doing it in past sports cars I've owned.
One bugbear compared to the X I've sat in is that X has more elbow room and a higher windscreen. I'm a tall chap and at those traffic lights where there isn't another across the other side of the road I have to hunch down to see. And in my seating position the A nad B pillars get in the way of good views out from side turnings and rear view mirror view is crap
Mine was an ex display model with sliding roof and carbon trim and cost £94K 14mths ago but I'd be lucky to get £54K trade in now at compare the car - a huge drop when the new raven has some improvements and costs less than i paid.
there's also the issue of the 'yellow border' on these models. Mine had the new fix for that yesterday (pickup today) but unknown how long that may last. I do like the binnacle display for monitoring car on autosteer and nav map but the big screen is a PITA if you want to change any settings when driving manually on A roads - safer to pull over than take eyes off road too long
 

poolmeds

Member
Jul 10, 2019
51
11
essex
Final car decisions are individual things. I have a 2018 S with EAP. I gave up on using NOA 'cos too much stress wondering what it;s going to do next. I do like autosteer and the ability to ask car to change lanes - longer motorway journeys can be relaxing if it's not too busy or if one is prepared to drive at german car speeds and risk the consequences and hog the fast lane (but I've grown up and don't do it very often). You can't consider it a nippy car - yes it'll accelerate fast and that's handy for getting past tractors on A roads and it'll stay on the road around bends but not a car I'd feel happy sliding - something I'd like to try somewhere safe one day but that's have to be on private ground whereas I'd feel reasonable comfortable doing it in past sports cars I've owned.
One bugbear compared to the X I've sat in is that X has more elbow room and a higher windscreen. I'm a tall chap and at those traffic lights where there isn't another across the other side of the road I have to hunch down to see. And in my seating position the A nad B pillars get in the way of good views out from side turnings and rear view mirror view is crap
Mine was an ex display model with sliding roof and carbon trim and cost £94K 14mths ago but I'd be lucky to get £54K trade in now at compare the car - a huge drop when the new raven has some improvements and costs less than i paid.
there's also the issue of the 'yellow border' on these models. Mine had the new fix for that yesterday (pickup today) but unknown how long that may last. I do like the binnacle display for monitoring car on autosteer and nav map but the big screen is a PITA if you want to change any settings when driving manually on A roads - safer to pull over than take eyes off road too long
thanks - is there a place with all your acronym forum explantions? EAP, NAO?
thanks
 

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,450
5,985
Surrey, UK
TLA’s are a big gripe of mine but you pick up most quite quickly. Thankfully not too many.

EAP enhanced auto pilot
NoA navigate on auto pilot

So even if you know you may still not understand ;)
 
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Lx2m3

Member
Jul 4, 2019
254
74
Rugby
If you’re definitely getting an EV then I would recommend you get a charging point installed ASAP as this can take several weeks. I had a Rolec untethered one installed by Powered Solutions Ltd, cost me £415, but cost depends on location. Also a good energy company is Octopus, I’m on their Go tariff which is very popular, this gives you 4 hours off-peak at only 5p per KWH, this works out that the running cost for my M3 SR+ is about 1.5p a mile!
I’ll send you a referral link by direct message - we both get £50.
 

Dazzler75

Member
Nov 1, 2019
9
0
Edinburgh
I have a long range model S and had a P90 for a week while it was in getting some faulty sensor wiring replaced. It may well be faster in a straight drag but in the driving I did that week, I could feel little difference in the power or acceleration from the performance model.
The long range is insanely quick compared to any other car I've owned and certainly enough for me.
 

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