New Model 3 or Used? What do I have? What can i get with this purchase?

[jimtelsa]

Morning group

I have several questions

My son just purchased a Model 3 off the used Inventory list

He would have purchased a new one but could not find the right options he wanted

He used my referral code, as it took the code when he placed his money down

We wanted the 2000 miles of free supercharging that goes with this

Another Tesla rep that was working with us online upon hearing we purchased this car put two years of free supercharging

Prior to pick up this was removed when they found out it was not new, they said they would look into adding this as i was promised this on an email

We were still trying to get some Supercharging on this purchase as my referral code worked

When picking up the car at the costa mesa delivery center, to avoid a 2000.00 delivery charge to have shipped to burbank or van nuys, we noticed the car to be in in near perfect condition.

It was brought to the show room and presented like all the other cars. Signed Documents, and had a quick inservice on car features. They dont put a larger red ribbon on car anymore? when did that change?

Again car was perfect, no signs of wear or scratches, nothing.

There was 494 miles on the odometer

We asked on why this car was in inventory? lemon Law? No, this most likely was just a return in 7 days with less than 1000 miles per Tesla policy. That same policy says they will take it back if it passes an inspection and you have not applied for any rebates or incentives.

The car did not have California license plates. Tesla put on the new temporary plates. I would be mailed the plates from the DMV when they arrive. The car did not have a way to attach the rear plate to car and they had to take it to the back to mount the license plate frame

I asked if this was used why didnt it have a current registration and was told it had not been registered yet otherwise it would have plates

So with that. Am i eligible for the state EV credit if the car was never registered in california and the credit was never requested on this VIN?

Am i able to apply for the remaining Federal EV rebate?

Tesla was unable to answer these questions?

 

[vickh]

re: apply for the remaining Federal EV rebate. How can you be sure if previous "owner" applied. Tesla's long return policy is unique. But not having a prior registration helps

I'm curious about price and options?

 

[jimtelsa]

36,900 Standard plus, White paint with white interior and 19 inch rims 494 miles

May build, car software has not been updated. no sentry mode and no beech buggy racing 2
Fog Lights are active

First mod, removed front license plate bracket with 4 lb. fishing line and WD40

 

[jjrandorin]

Morning group

I have several questions

My son just purchased a Model 3 off the used Inventory list

He would have purchased a new one but could not find the right options he wanted

He used my referral code, as it took the code when he placed his money down

We wanted the 2000 miles of free supercharging that goes with this

Another Tesla rep that was working with us online upon hearing we purchased this car put two years of free supercharging

Prior to pick up this was removed when they found out it was not new, they said they would look into adding this as i was promised this on an email

We were still trying to get some Supercharging on this purchase as my referral code worked

When picking up the car at the costa mesa delivery center, to avoid a 2000.00 delivery charge to have shipped to burbank or van nuys, we noticed the car to be in in near perfect condition.

It was brought to the show room and presented like all the other cars. Signed Documents, and had a quick inservice on car features. They dont put a larger red ribbon on car anymore? when did that change?

Again car was perfect, no signs of wear or scratches, nothing.

There was 494 miles on the odometer

We asked on why this car was in inventory? lemon Law? No, this most likely was just a return in 7 days with less than 1000 miles per Tesla policy. That same policy says they will take it back if it passes an inspection and you have not applied for any rebates or incentives.

The car did not have California license plates. Tesla put on the new temporary plates. I would be mailed the plates from the DMV when they arrive. The car did not have a way to attach the rear plate to car and they had to take it to the back to mount the license plate frame

I asked if this was used why didnt it have a current registration and was told it had not been registered yet otherwise it would have plates

So with that. Am i eligible for the state EV credit if the car was never registered in california and the credit was never requested on this VIN?

Am i able to apply for the remaining Federal EV rebate?

Tesla was unable to answer these questions?

If the paperwork says "used" then it is a used car. They would have sold it as new if they could have. Miles does not determine whether its new or used, processed registration does. Just because they didnt have the plates doesnt mean the car was never registered.

If the tesla paperwork you signed says "used" the car is a used car, full stop, do not pass go, do not collect any new car incentives.

 

[OCR1]

I don’t see any downside in applying for the Fed and CA rebates. Worst case is it gets denied. If you can confirm you are the first on title then you should qualify for both rebates. A title search should be simple enough to do.

 

[mreynolds767]

The rebate for Federal clearly states NEW only.
The rebate in my state (MA) clearly states NEW only

If it was never titled Telsa might have been able to sell as new, fact is they sold as Used so not going to work with the rebates.
I suspect the 2 year free supercharging is going to get denied as well for used and not sure any referral codes mean anything on used either.

These rebates and lack of benefits buying used are what makes me question Tesla's normal used price listings.

 

[dmurphy]

I don’t see any downside in applying for the Fed and CA rebates. Worst case is it gets denied. If you can confirm you are the first on title then you should qualify for both rebates. A title search should be simple enough to do.

Here's a place to get a "free" title search... you give up personal info for said search, but that's .. well... an exercise left to the reader.
https://www.carsforsale.com/request-vehicle-history-report

 

[vickh]

The rebate for Federal clearly states NEW only.
The rebate in my state (MA) clearly states NEW only

If it was never titled Telsa might have been able to sell as new, fact is they sold as Used so not going to work with the rebates.
I suspect the 2 year free supercharging is going to get denied as well for used and not sure any referral codes mean anything on used either.

These rebates and lack of benefits buying used are what makes me question Tesla's normal used price listings.

I agree. Depending on the state, new is cheaper (atleast for base SRs when I was looking) Hopefully it stays that way till the Y is released.

 

[OCR1]

For the CA rebate I would try calling the office that administers the rebate program and ask them if the car is eligible.

 

[jjrandorin]

I agree. Depending on the state, new is cheaper (atleast for base SRs when I was looking) Hopefully it stays that way till the Y is released.

Not to mention, that in this specific case, just like a lot of them with very low miles, the OP was informed that this car was likely a return in the 7 day period. What the OP does not know is, WHY that happened? "someone" decided that they didnt like the car enough for "reasons" to return it. For me personally, thats a non starter. I would always wonder "what am I missing, that the Original purchaser saw that caused them to return it??"

 

[OCR1]

If a car is sold new and then returned, could an argument be made that the sale was voided and thus does not count as a sale?

 

[mreynolds767]

If a car is sold new and then returned, could an argument be made that the sale was voided and thus does not count as a sale?

I think that is Telsa's argument to make and they choose not to for whatever reason.
Telsa sold it as Used. I don't see how the new owner could make it New in the eyes of anyone at this point.

 

[jjrandorin]

For the CA rebate I would try calling the office that administers the rebate program and ask them if the car is eligible.

Directly from the website that administers the california rebate:

================================

Vehicle Eligibility
Eligible vehicles must meet requirements that include, but are not limited to, the following.

Be on the list of Eligible Vehicles.

Be new as defined in the California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 430 and manufactured by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or its authorized licensee. Vehicles considered new vehicles solely for determination of compliance with state emissions standards are not eligible.

Be registered as new in California. Vehicles may not be purchased, leased, or delivered out of state.

Have an odometer reading below 7,500 miles at the time of purchase or lease.

=================================

As I mentioned earlier (and I think its likely that you know) "new" vs "used" is a legal definition, it has nothing to do with miles on the vehicle. You can have a new vehicle with 4k miles, and a used one with 100 miles or even fewer.

As per the "defintion of new in california vehicle code section 430:

==================================

430.

A “new vehicle” is a vehicle constructed entirely from new parts that has never been the subject of a retail sale, or registered with the department, or registered with the appropriate agency or authority of any other state, District of Columbia, territory or possession of the United States, or foreign state, province, or country.



(Amended by Stats. 1994, Ch. 1253, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 1995.)

==================================

If the car is sold as "used" tesla is telling you that it has been registered. They would have sold it as "new" if not. If the paperwork says "used" it is USED, and this OP would be committing fraud applying for rebates (or tax credits) that apply to NEW vehicles.

 

[OCR1]

Yes, I read section 430, which is why I posed the question. If a car is returned does that void the sale as if it never happened?

It’s easy enough to check to see if it has been previously registered, but given that returns must happened within 7 days it seems highly unlikely that it would have been.

 

[jjrandorin]

If a car is sold new and then returned, could an argument be made that the sale was voided and thus does not count as a sale?

If this was the case, tesla would sell the car as "new". Believe me, if they can sell the car as NEW, they will. Much easier and less money lost to sell a car as new with low miles, than used (and have to explain why its used). Registration is submitted as soon as the car is purchased. The only time that could be reversed is if they "unwind the deal" which is making it like it never happened. Thats rare, and would depend on how fast tesla processes the paperwork.

Its actually pretty simple in this case. If the OPs MVPA says "used" thats what it is, Tesla is telling you its used, and no amount of "what if'ing" is going to change that fact.

 

[jjrandorin]

Yes, I read section 430, which is why I posed the question. If a car is returned does that void the sale as if it never happened?

It’s easy enough to check to see if it has been previously registered, but given that returns must happened within 7 days it seems highly unlikely that it would have been.

If a return voided the sale, the car would have been sold as a new demo car.

 

[OCR1]

Do we know for a fact that the MVPA states the car is used?

 

[jjrandorin]

Do we know for a fact that the MVPA states the car is used?

We dont, but the OP knows if the paperwork says so. I would suspect the OP knows the car is a used car, since the car was "purchased off the used inventory list" as stated by the OP. The OP is just asking "Well the only thing that says used is this paperwork... I dont see plates and such, so cant I claim its new?".

 

[dmurphy]

For me personally, thats a non starter. I would always wonder "what am I missing, that the Original purchaser saw that caused them to return it??"

While I agree, there's some percentage that have a problem, there's an absolute ton of reasons cars get returned ....

They brought it home and their wife hated the color.
Or, they decided they wanted an M3P instead.
Or, they found out they couldn't install a charging station at their condo, and gave up.
Or, their kid's stroller doesn't fit in the trunk.
Or, the loan got de-funded ex-post-facto. (Crazy but happens.)
Or, bought the car, came home, found out wife was pregnant with quadruplets.
Or, got military overseas orders
Or, lost job day after signing for car

.... on and on it goes... so many crazy scenarios, absolutely none of which have to do with quality of the vehicle ...

 

[Trevor B]

Check the CarFax report.

Apparently too good to be true...demo car