New Model 3 wanna be owner - need tips before ordering

[nitynity]

Ok, planning to get a Model 3 SR or (LR? Haven't decided yet.)for the wifey.
Daily driver, 60-70 miles commute (3 days/week/highway + city driving) and 45 miles (2 days/week/city driving), . What are the realistic mileage limit compared to 272/358 EPA on SR/LR? Strictly used for daily commute alone and no long road trips. So not sure if it's worth the extra 11k on LR or just get the SR and HPWC instead of mobile connector. LR wont be eligible for EV credit with MSRP, but will get the $3750 if delivered before 31 Dec 2022. If not get the SR next year for the EV credit.

Just wanted to find out the best bang for the buck. Need a new vehicle by end of Jan atleast.
Any tips/advice from Model 3 owners will be greatly appreciated.

 

[jjrandorin]

For your described use case, either vehicle will work. How far they go relative to the EPA range has so many variables it spawns discussion after discussion after discussion. For you, however, based on what you said it doesnt matter in the slightest:

Daily driver, 60-70 miles commute (3 days/week/highway + city driving) and 45 miles (2 days/week/city driving),

Strictly used for daily commute alone and no long road trips.

A model 3 RWD will absolutely cover "60-70 miles commute 3 days a week of highway and city driving, and 45 miles 2 days a week city driving". If you have home charging, its only the daily number that matters (60-70 miles, or 45 miles) and if you dont, I am not a fan of owning an EV without home charging (although people do it all the time).

 

[nitynity]

For your described use case, either vehicle will work. How far they go relative to the EPA range has so many variables it spawns discussion after discussion after discussion. For you, however, based on what you said it doesnt matter in the slightest:





A model 3 RWD will absolutely cover "60-70 miles commute 3 days a week of highway and city driving, and 45 miles 2 days a week city driving". If you have home charging, its only the daily number that matters (60-70 miles, or 45 miles) and if you dont, I am not a fan of owning an EV without home charging (although people do it all the time).

Thanks for the response jjrandorin. Ofcourse there will be home charging installed. But if daily or every other day charge is recommended, does it matter HPWC or mobile connector/NEMA 15-40 outlet?

 

[nitynity]

Thanks for the response jjrandorin. Ofcourse there will be home charging installed. But if daily or every other day charge is recommended, does it matter HPWC or mobile connector/NEMA 15-40 outlet?

Considering the fact NEMA is more generic and HPWC is tesla proprietary just for future proof.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks for the response jjrandorin. Ofcourse there will be home charging installed. But if daily or every other day charge is recommended, does it matter HPWC or mobile connector/NEMA 15-40 outlet?

Nope, it doesnt matter whether you charge it with a mobile connector connected to a 15-40 outlet or a HPWC, thats personal preference. Most of us would recommend the HPWC because the install cost is similar at this point, due to needing an expensive GFCI breaker for a 14-50 outlet and not needing one for a hard wired wall connector (of any type).

 

[dmurphy]

Nope, it doesnt matter whether you charge it with a mobile connector connected to a 15-40 outlet or a HPWC, thats personal preference. Most of us would recommend the HPWC because the install cost is similar at this point, due to needing an expensive GFCI breaker for a 14-50 outlet and not needing one for a hard wired wall connector (of any type).

... should also mention that the HPWC purchase price has dropped recently to $350. That really does change the equation like you said.

I personally *love* my wall connector; it's so convenient. Also - because I park outdoors in the driveway, I like knowing it's a sealed enclosure.

But either way, @nitynity, your usage profile would be just fine for either the SR or LR vehicle. One other thing to note that may help your equation - the SR with LFP Battery is perfectly OK to charge to 100% every day. The LR model shouldn't really go above 90% for daily usage (OK to go higher for road trips, but not really daily use.)

So -- given that, the SR becomes even more attractive for your daily use pattern.

 

[RandyS]

Not sure if this matters, but you get more than extra range for $11K on the LR. On the LR, the interior is nicer, there's rear heated seats, the stereo is nicer, there's more horsepower, more torque, faster acceleration, the LR charges faster at both L2 (48 amps vs 32 amps) and supercharging speeds (250kW max vs. 170 kW max on a V3 supercharger). Probably not a necessity in your case, but just trying to inform you if you didn't know...But the one joke that has some truth to it is this: No one ever said "I wish I had a smaller battery"... The car does use energy all the time, even when not driving. Some settings can temper that use (like Sentry mode off), but the one thing you should know is that you won't get the EPA rated mileage when driving and the car will use more energy when sitting...

If you haven't seen this yet, go down to the specifications table and compare the different items:

Tesla Model 3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Best of luck with your decision...If it were me, I'd take delivery in December and get $3,750 and the 10K miles of free supercharging (about $1K value)...We don't know what the prices of the vehicles will be after Jan. 1 (my bet is Tesla will raise them to get some the tax credit for themselves from you), getting the tax credit will take ~14-15 months, you may not qualify for the full credit depending on your circumstances (car/income), etc. A bird in the hand...

 

[thesmokingman]

If you're gonna put a ton of miles on it commuting, get the 3 SR. Commuter cars stand higher chances of getting beat up, dinged, scratched etc so in this context I'd rather not get a higher end model for strict commuting. I had a 21 SR+ for a weekend loaner, still had the tags on it. I found it pretty comfy yet still sporty on ride, fairly peppy on accel, and it was just more of the same Tesla -ism. And the LFP is just easier to maintain charge cycle wise too.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I can almost guarantee you that the LR will be eligible for the tax credit. They've already effectively lowered the price well below the $55K limit by giving that $3750 credit plus 10K supercharging. You can bet that they'll roll that into an MSRP reduction on Jan1 to stay under the tax credit limit, assuming the car qualifies in other ways.

The SR, however, might not qualify soon. Last I heard, it had disqualifying Chinese batteries. Presumably they'll just swap back to the American batteries that SR's have used in the past, but that might take some time.

Note that the LR model will have to drop well below $55K to still allow for some options, so figure ~$52K base, and it's conceivable that it could qualify for the full $7500 credit. *IF* this all happens, it'll likely be your best bang/buck. Plus it has a lot of extra features that others noted, like faster charge speeds, subwoofer, more interior/exterior lighting, etc.

Don't mess with 14-50 outlets, there is no real advantage and plenty of disadvantages. Just get the wall charger.

 

[nitynity]

Thanks for the all the tips guys, Really appreciate it. I heard about the speaker system, better performance, more space and all those good stuff about LR. But as I said, this is for the wifey and hence not really gona use any of these features, strictly for commute. So with the high miles, as thesmokingman suggested, SR would be a better option, maybe a 3 year lease (or finance and sell?), first time leaser as well, also in TX there is this double taxation(pay tax on full MSRP on leasing and again pay it if choose to keep the vehicle, pretty weird).

Again, LR is $59,990 and hence wont qualify for EV credit, unless they drop it down to 55K. As far as the WC install, the quote difference is only $70 more for HPWC vs Nema outlet. But in case I end up getting a different brand EV in the future, a generic outlet will be useful as I park inside the garage. But with the faster charging I might still go with WC. Also I might move out of state in next 2-3 years, so less hassle if it's mobile charger? So many unknowns at this point to make an informed decision lol

 

[nitynity]

Forgot to add, the nearest supercharging station is 18miles away, so thats not an attractive feature to get the LR before Jan.

 

[jjrandorin]

first time leaser as well, also in TX there is this double taxation(pay tax on full MSRP on leasing and again pay it if choose to keep the vehicle, pretty weird).

Yeah, TX is pretty weird on taxation for leases, but you dont have to worry about that with a tesla model 3 or Y lease, because you can not buy it out at the end of the lease. Let me repeat that since it is different than most other brands. You currently CAN NOT buy the car at the end of the lease, even if you want to.

You also can not currently sell the leased car to a dealer.

 

[BitJam]

Again, LR is $59,990 and hence wont qualify for EV credit, unless they drop it down to 55K.

Might want to wait and see if there is more information in early January.

As far as the WC install, the quote difference is only $70 more for HPWC vs Nema outlet. But in case I end up getting a different brand EV in the future, a generic outlet will be useful as I park inside the garage. But with the faster charging I might still go with WC. Also I might move out of state in next 2-3 years, so less hassle if it's mobile charger?

I use a 14-50 outlet to charge my MYLR. It charges roughly 10% per hour which is plenty fast enough for normal use. A downside of using 14-50 is you now have to order the Mobile Connector separately ($230) and sometimes it's out of stock.

IMO if the SR with LFP meets your needs then you should get it, especially if you live in a warm place like Dallas. LFP batteries last much longer than the batteries used in the LR and Performance. But they lose more range in colder weather. OTOH, if you're leasing then the battery lifetime may not matter to you.

 

[father_of_6]

I too feel pretty strongly that the LR will qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit come January 1st.

 

[nitynity]

Yeah, TX is pretty weird on taxation for leases, but you dont have to worry about that with a tesla model 3 or Y lease, because you can not buy it out at the end of the lease. Let me repeat that since it is different than most other brands. You currently CAN NOT buy the car at the end of the lease, even if you want to.

You also can not currently sell the leased car to a dealer.

I see ok, so what's the best option in my case? Buy and sell in 3 years or lease 3 years/walk away? I am not familiar with all the lease terminology/requirements, so not quite sure if leasing is in my best interest.

 

[father_of_6]

LFP batteries last much longer than the batteries used in the LR and Performance.

Really? The LFP batteries have only been in use for a year or so... how can anyone know this?

 

[father_of_6]

not quite sure if leasing is in my best interest.

I don't think leasing is ever in anyone's financial best interest. It might make sense if you have cash to burn and just want a new vehicle every 3 years.

 

[jjrandorin]

I see ok, so what's the best option in my case? Buy and sell in 3 years or lease 3 years/walk away? I am not familiar with all the lease terminology/requirements, so not quite sure if leasing is in my best interest.

Leasing generally isnt in any regular, non business owners financial best interests, if financial considerations is all one is thinking about. I say that as someone who did exactly that (lease vehicles, specifically BMWs) for 18 years, for both my wife and myself.. so 2 vehicles every 3 years, for 18 years.

I also used to be one of the main members of a large BMW website who would help others wade through lease terms, look over their deals etc. I know how to get a good lease deal, but in general you lease because you dont want to keep the car, or because you know you are someone who cant stay committed to a vehicle, etc.

Its almost never the cheapest decision, it can sometimes be a hedge if you dont know if you want to keep a car. A lot of people want to lease EVs if they are not sure if they will like the EV lifestyle, or because the technology is changing quickly. With that being said, if you are asking about finances, its generally better to buy and then sell whenever you are ready to, especially since you cant buy the lease out yourself or sell it to a dealer with Tesla model 3s currently.

 

[nitynity]

Might want to wait and see if there is more information in early January.


I use a 14-50 outlet to charge my MYLR. It charges roughly 10% per hour which is plenty fast enough for normal use. A downside of using 14-50 is you now have to order the Mobile Connector separately ($230) and sometimes it's out of stock.

IMO if the SR with LFP meets your needs then you should get it, especially if you live in a warm place like Dallas. LFP batteries last much longer than the batteries used in the LR and Performance. But they lose more range in colder weather. OTOH, if you're leasing then the battery lifetime may not matter to you.

Currently owns a Q5 and thats about to hit some big maintenance as per the repair shop. Advised to sell it ASAP if possible. That's why this rush. Read somewhere that Model 3 raised the price 2 times already this year, so not really the best time to get the LR, but no choice with the present situation.

Regarding the charging, I read the difference would be 3-4 hours for going from 0-100% WC vs 14-50. Since its overnight doesn't really matter I guess.
Also you wont wait until it drops to 0% anyways, so it would be more like 1-2 hrs? The price diff is $120 ($350 WC and $230 MC), but the portability could be useful if travelling (though very unlikely)

 

[BitJam]

Really? The LFP batteries have only been in use for a year or so... how can anyone know this?

An easy way is to test battery life is to constantly charge and discharge them, counting the number of full cycles. A similar technique is used to measure the lifetime of ssds (solid state drives). They constantly write to and read from them until they break.

An average driver will go through about 50 full charge cycles per year (14K miles / 280 miles per full charge). For level 2 charging this will take about 500 hours or 0.7% of the time. So testing for 100 years of normal use with home charging can be done in less than a year. Supercharger testing is even faster.

I am not certain if Tesla will achieve actual full self driving in the next few years but I have no doubt they have tested the heck out of the batteries before they put them in cars.