New Model S owner charging primer (US)

[dsm363]

Sorry, I was asking about the dryer plug which seems to be 120 volt, 30 amps?

A dryer outlet should be 240V 30A.

 

[brianman]

A dryer outlet should be 240V 30A.

Slight elaboration...

Much like the "14-50" delivering 40A, the dryer receptacles (older "10-30" and newer "14-30") deliver 24A.

 

[mknox]

Much like the "14-50" delivering 40A, the dryer receptacles (older "10-30" and newer "14-30") deliver 24A.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but they are still 40 and 30 amp receptacles capable of delivering that amount of power. Most jurisdictions' electrical codes have definitions for "continuous loads" (EVs fall in to this category), and circuits supplying these types of devices can only be loaded to 80% of their rated capacity.

 

[brianman]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but they are still 40 and 30 amp receptacles capable of delivering that amount of power.

To put an even finer point on it, Tesla's adapter will limit it to 24A on a 30A receptacle so that's kind of irrelevant. No?

 

[mknox]

To put an even finer point on it, Tesla's adapter will limit it to 24A on a 30A receptacle so that's kind of irrelevant. No?

Right. What I had in the back of my mind when I posted was that many people in many threads talk about home-made "cheater cords" and adapters. If someone made up a cord with a NEMA 14-30 plug on one end and a NEMA 14-50 socket on the other (to plug into dryer outlets on the road), then plugged their UMC's 14-50 into this adapter cord, it might be important to understand that the 30 amp outlet they're plugged in to needs to be de-rated to 24 amps due to the "continuous load" nature of the EV, and the car should be dialed down from 40 amps to 24 amps (not 30 amps). The Model S UMC notwithstanding, they are 50 and 30 amp receptacles (I mistakenly said "40" in my previous post).

 

[SeanTek]

I am working with a municipality to improve the city's EV charging infrastructure, and I wanted to give them a primer on the different EV charging options.

The table in this thread is great, but I would like it to be a bit more comprehensive. First, it doesn't list NEMA 5-20 (small thing); second, it does not list specific J1772 chargers, which would give a sense of the range of options. In my experience, public J1772 chargers range from ~10 mi/hr to 55+ mi/hr (i.e., 4kW to 18kW), with most tending in the 14-22 mi/hr range. If you are traveling to a particular destination and want to travel back, the difference between 14 mi/hr (filling 208 miles of battery in 15 hours) and 22 mi/hr (filling 208 miles in 9.5 hours) is quite significant. The former means "overnight and a whole morning", while the latter means "day trip".

Is the table being actively maintained? Alternatively or in addition, is there a wiki online with this information, so we can share and keep it updated?

 

[goofy166]

Can anyone recommend an electrician in the SF Bay Area to install the HPWC for a Model S or point me to an existing thread

 

[spaghetti]

Can anyone recommend an electrician in the SF Bay Area to install the HPWC for a Model S or point me to an existing thread

AMZ Electric; 925-216-8894. They did my NEMA 14-50 install and took care of the entire permit process. I was super happy with them.

 

[Shaggy]

To anyone coming across this thread, the adapters mentioned are available from Tesla's Model S accessories web page, including the $450 CHAdeMO:
Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters CHAdeMO Adapter
NEMA 5-15, NEMA 5-20, NEMA 14-50, NEMA 10-30 @ $45 each.

 

[samarc25]

Thanks for the great details and reference.

Charging Source	Technical Details	Max power	Required to use it
Household outlet View attachment 13779	NEMA 5-15 outlet 110V, 15A Must draw 12A or less (you can only draw 80% of rated outlet capacity for a continuous load) Note that there is a similar NEMA 5-20 110V 20A outlet that you can plug in to, but Tesla does not allow you to pull more than 12A unless you buy a separate adapter for it so they can be sure they are on a 20A circuit.	1.3kW (up to 3mph)	5-15 adapter is included with the Model S Mobile Connector 5-20 adapter is available from Tesla.
J1772 "Charging station" View attachment 13780	J1772 EVSE An EVSE is similar to an outlet, but safer. 240V. Typically 30A delivered on a 40A breaker. (Spec allows up to 80A delivered on a 100A breaker; that makes it equivalent to a Tesla Model S HPWC, below). Any plug-in vehicle in the US since 2010 should be able to use these. The Tesla Model S can, with an included adapter. The Tesla Roadster, released before the standard was finalized, requires a separate $650 adapter.	7.2kW (up to 22mph) assuming 30A. But a few are at 19.2kW like an HPWC; so see below for specs on that.	Adapter is included with Model S. J1772 plugs into the adapter, which plugs in to the car.
Campground 50A outlet View attachment 13781	NEMA 14-50 outlet 240V, 50A Must draw 40A or less (you can only draw 80% of rated outlet capacity for a continuous load) Big RVs use these at RV parks to run air conditioning and other electrical loads in the RV. Do not confuse this with a 30A campground outlet, which is only 110V!	9.6kW (up to 29mph)	Adapter is generally included with the Model S Mobile Connector; but if you have a different 240V outlet in your garage to charge the car, you may get that adapter instead, and then you would have to buy this one.
Tesla Roadster HPC View attachment 13782	Tesla Roadster EVSE An EVSE is similar to an outlet, but safer. 240V 90A breaker; 70A delivered (if 90A is not available, it can be installed at a lower level) The Tesla Roadster is the only car that can use these EVSEs (except a Model S with an appropriate adapter from Tesla).	16.8kW (up to 50mph)	A $650 adapter from Tesla. HPC plugs in to the adapter, which plugs in to the car. You must also have Twin Chargers to use more than 10kW.
Tesla Model S HPWC View attachment 13783	Tesla Model S EVSE An EVSE is similar to an outlet, but safer. 240V 100A breaker; 80A delivered (if 100A is not available, it can be installed at a lower level) The Tesla Model S is the only car that can use these EVSEs.	19.2kW (up to 58mph)	Plugs directly in to the Model S. But you must have Twin Chargers to be able to use more than 10kW.
CHAdeMO Charger View attachment 13784	CHAdeMO standard DC Charger Can be up to 65kW, but most installations are at 48kW This is a real charger, not just a power supply. It talks more directly to the battery than an EVSE. But the car still has to talk the protocol. The Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi i are currently the only cars in the US that can use these chargers.	48kW (up to 144mph)	An adapter from Tesla. They are “working” on one for $1,000; availability probably very late 2013. Will also require the Supercharging option (which is standard with 85kWh, optional on the 60kWh).
Tesla Supercharger View attachment 13785	Tesla’s proprietary DC Charger This is a real charger, not just a power supply. It talks more directly to the battery than an EVSE. The Tesla Model S is the only car that can use these chargers.	120kW (up to 300mph)	Plugs directly in to the Model S, if the car is Supercharge capable. Standard on 85kWh models, optional on 60kWh models.

 

[Shaggy]

To anyone coming across this thread, the adapters mentioned are available from Tesla's Model S accessories web page, including the $450 CHAdeMO:
Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters CHAdeMO Adapter
NEMA 5-15, NEMA 5-20, NEMA 14-50, NEMA 10-30 @ $45 each.

Wanted to add the 14-30 is back...

 

[FlatSix911]

I am working with a municipality to improve the city's EV charging infrastructure, and I wanted to give them a primer on the different EV charging options. The table in this thread is great, but I would like it to be a bit more comprehensive. First, it doesn't list NEMA 5-20 (small thing); second, it does not list specific J1772 chargers, which would give a sense of the range of options. In my experience, public J1772 chargers range from ~10 mi/hr to 55+ mi/hr (i.e., 4kW to 18kW), with most tending in the 14-22 mi/hr range.

If you are traveling to a particular destination and want to travel back, the difference between 14 mi/hr (filling 208 miles of battery in 15 hours) and 22 mi/hr (filling 208 miles in 9.5 hours) is quite significant. The former means "overnight and a whole morning", while the latter means "day trip". Is the table being actively maintained? Alternatively or in addition, is there a wiki online with this information, so we can share and keep it updated?

Here is a handy chart for reference ...

 

[FlatSix911]

And another chart for charging range miles/hour based on amperage ...

 

[Lectrik]

J1772 "Charging station"

J1772 EVSE

An EVSE is similar to an outlet, but safer.

240V. Typically 30A delivered on a 40A breaker. (Spec allows up to 80A delivered on a 100A breaker; that makes it equivalent to a Tesla Model S HPWC, below).

Any plug-in vehicle in the US since 2010 should be able to use these. The Tesla Model S can, with an included adapter. The Tesla Roadster, released before the standard was finalized, requires a separate $650 adapter.7.2kW (up to 22mph) assuming 30A. But a few are at 19.2kW like an HPWC; so see below for specs on that.Adapter is included with Model S. J1772 plugs into the adapter, which plugs in to the car.

Has anyone experienced the lack of conversation between the Model S and the J1772 charging system? I left my charge limit set at 70 % ('16 Model S 90D) and returned to find the battery charged to 90-95%. I asked the valet parking attendant if he'd changed the setting and he replied "NO". Wondering if I'll try leaving the car on that type of charger again. Lectrik.

 

[scaesare]

Has anyone experienced the lack of conversation between the Model S and the J1772 charging system? I left my charge limit set at 70 % ('16 Model S 90D) and returned to find the battery charged to 90-95%. I asked the valet parking attendant if he'd changed the setting and he replied "NO". Wondering if I'll try leaving the car on that type of charger again. Lectrik.

A J1772 only can signal the car about the current it's able to deliver. It has no ability to set the charge limit of the car.

Accidental setting via app? Forgot you had changed the limit? Another app/webservice somewhere triggered a scheduled event you forgot about? (The latter has happened to me).

 

[Lectrik]

Thought so. How does one prevent overcharge?

 

[scaesare]

Find what, or who, inadvertently set the charge level higher and then correct that. No charger (including a supercharger) should override the car's set limit.

On the outside chance the car's system is malfunctioning and it's not honoring the set limit, take it in for service.

 

[Lectrik]

There's no documentation that the J1772 system will recognize or override the Tesla charge limit. You get what you pay for I guess.

 

[arg]

There's no documentation that the J1772 system will recognize or override the Tesla charge limit. You get what you pay for I guess.

The J1772 system tells the car the maximum current it is allowed to draw. Everything else - when, how fast and how much to charge - is down to the car itself.

There is no possible mechanism for a J1772 chargepoint to 'force' a car to accept charge that it doesn't want.

If the car charged to a higher level than you expected, then the car decided to do that - either due to a defect in the car's software, or because you (or someone else without your knowledge) set the controls to a different level.

 

[Tezzie]

@ChadS how can I download your amazing chart on charging specs? I'm a Tesla newbie and would love to have a copy of it.