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New Model Y Performance, No Ryzen

I'm consist in saying "it doesn't matter". I might make a choice if it did.
No..you're avoiding the question because you fear it weakens your argument.

If it helps you any, it doesn't change your argument.

But lets change it...You have a choice of the responsiveness of your screen to respond faster to whatever you want to do...are you saying you're fine with it being slower and it doesn't matter?
 
Wow some pretty poor attitudes here - we're all Tesla enthusiasts and not everyone gives a crap about the infotainment aspect of this vehicle. For driving functions including switching between various car controls and the map, the Atom seems to work just fine IME. So I'll answer for myself and state that Ryzen vs Intel doesn't matter although I would PREFER the Ryzen just to have the latest and shiniest.

Full disclosure - haven't taken delivery yet but have demo'd 3 times and "visited" local showrooms almost every week since ordering back in October and have spent quite a lot of time playing around with the screen. I did not experience any moments where the Atom was super sluggish, annoying, or in any way frustrating to use.
 
Wow some pretty poor attitudes here - we're all Tesla enthusiasts and not everyone gives a crap about the infotainment aspect of this vehicle. For driving functions including switching between various car controls and the map, the Atom seems to work just fine IME. So I'll answer for myself and state that Ryzen vs Intel doesn't matter although I would PREFER the Ryzen just to have the latest and shiniest.
And I think that's very realistic....anyone that knows the difference that says they don't have a preference, honestly, is lying. You don't care that it is faster? You don't care that it might allow for something else in the future? Even a slight boost in performance is preferable. You might be ok with the Intel, you might not care enough to wait or reject a car...but no preference? That's just not believable.
 
And I think that's very realistic....anyone that knows the difference that says they don't have a preference, honestly, is lying. You don't care that it is faster? You don't care that it might allow for something else in the future? Even a slight boost in performance is preferable. You might be ok with the Intel, you might not care enough to wait or reject a car...but no preference? That's just not believable.
It’s called intellectual dishonesty, and apparently @tangible1 and @Corndart suffer from it.
 
There are also a lot of concerns that Tesla will intentionally fork their updates and add applications that are Ryzen-only, leaving Atom equipped vehicle owners behind. It's quite possible they would do this, but really it's no different than any of the other upgrades / running changes they've made to all of the models.

I have difficulty swallowing this assumption Atom equipped vehicles will reach a phase of un-usability, solely because Tesla will ship changes that degrade and make them completely unusable. The Model S / Tegra issues were due to memory degradation, not CPU. This could just as easily happen to Ryzen equipped vehicles, or they could suffer other long term / not discovered during QA issues because nobody installed them in a hostile environment like a vehicle like Tesla have done.
I don’t recall seeing where an argument was made around intel teslas becoming obsolete due to MCU. I don’t think that is the case either.

But when you consider the vast difference in power between ryzen and atom, the fear of a fork is not really a fear at all. It is inevitable tesla will use this horsepower for something. Without knowing the feature roadmap, how can anyone be sure how much these features can impact them? You don’t know what you don’t know so why not be safe? I would think anyone that took time to reach this forum would care more than average. Others don’t admittedly.

Who’s to say MCU will never assist in driving? Funny take on my point outside of Tesla. In the chess engine world, GPU powered engine LC0 was once king. Technology changed and now CPU powered Stockfish is back on top. They both utilize AI.

I doubt Tesla will provide MCU upgrades going forward. Standard service is a challenge so I don’t think they would entertain the administrative risk. With teslas holding their value as well as they do, Tesla would do much better telling folks to sell their cars and buy another with the latest and greatest. They would have a very strong argument considering the industry standard is not to get any updates ever.
 
It’s called intellectual dishonesty, and apparently @tangible1 and @Corndart suffer from it.
Corndart was honest..he said..he would prefer one if given a choice but he's ok with either.

It is just like this..if you told every customer for the same price they're either getting a more responsive faster MCU for their car or a slower one, which would they want? I doubt anyone would choose the slower one. There would be no benefit to them choosing the slower one. There are people that would accept the slower one but no one is going to choose it.
 
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Absolutely no Model Ys have ever had MCU1 or an "upgraded" MCU as of this writing.
True, but I don't understand the relevance to the post to which you're replying.

My point was that Tesla has done some MCU updates in the past; it's not out of the question, but there is no real reason to think they will do it here.

Ultimately, however, my point was that the sniping seemed to be mostly about "I'm right/you're wrong" without recognizing that mostly the disagreements are about different perspectives from which both can be right.
 
Corndart was honest..he said..he would prefer one if given a choice but he's ok with either.

It is just like this..if you told every customer for the same price they're either getting a more responsive faster MCU for their car or a slower one, which would they want? I doubt anyone would choose the slower one. There would be no benefit to them choosing the slower one. There are people that would accept the slower one but no one is going to choose it.
This is a bit of a straw man argument.

If (and this is clearly debatable at best or flat out wrong at worst) the only difference were the speed, I agree that it's a cut-and-dried argument.

If, on the other hand, there are tradeoffs in the new unit (e.g., performance for reduced range via increased energy usage, regardless of how much), then it's a consideration of costs/benefits for which there is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

Right now, it seems pretty clear that there is incontrovertibly a performance improvement in the new chip, though some debate over how much internet connection influences the practical benefit of this for things like maps draw speed.

There is anecdotal but unproven evidence that the new chip uses more energy, which results in a loss of range.

I personally couldn't draw anything conclusive out of this current state of affairs in terms of which is true or real costs/benefits.

My new MYP allegedly has AMD (will know tomorrow), but there's no way for me to evaluate range arguments in a vacuum -- and the only way I can really see would be a truly scientific test in something like an EPA range setup of one vs the other. I'm not sure those with that kind of setup care enough about this to do such a test though.
 
Corndart was honest..he said..he would prefer one if given a choice but he's ok with either.

It is just like this..if you told every customer for the same price they're either getting a more responsive faster MCU for their car or a slower one, which would they want? I doubt anyone would choose the slower one. There would be no benefit to them choosing the slower one. There are people that would accept the slower one but no one is going to choose it.
Keyboard warriors are out in force I see..

Did I express a preference? Yes or no?

You’re right, and thanks for calling me out. I should not have lumped @Corndart in with my post, not to mention my post was a bit cheeky. Sorry @Corndart ! I shouldn’t have lumped you in with the “MCU doesn’t matter” crowd, which is quite different than saying “MCU doesn’t matter to me.

My own perspective… when I first started considering Tesla and came to this site for advice, I heard from many folks here that I should consider Tesla as a cutting edge Silicon Valley tech and software company, and that one of their big advantages over other car manufacturers. I have a number of friends who own these cars and say the same thing. One friend of mine said getting OTA updates is like waking up on Christmas morning, and he looks forward to each and every update. He owns several Teslas, and has since 2012, so I take him at his word that this is one of the pleasures of owning these cars. Of course the car will continue to drive just fine without these updates, so I think the argument about obsolescence is a bit ridiculous. But for me, the reason I would strongly prefer the updates MCU is because it is more likely to receive these updates years in the future after the Intel stops receiving updates. It’s a want, not a need for sure. My other two cars never get updates and they continue to drive just fine. I don’t care about the longer Netflix load times today, but I do want the unknown features Tesla will roll out in the future, even though I’m sure most of them will be gimmicky and useless. But I also understand others who don’t care about these features and just want to drive their car. Everyone has their own priorities.
 
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True, but I don't understand the relevance to the post to which you're replying.

My point was that Tesla has done some MCU updates in the past; it's not out of the question, but there is no real reason to think they will do it here.

Ultimately, however, my point was that the sniping seemed to be mostly about "I'm right/you're wrong" without recognizing that mostly the disagreements are about different perspectives from which both can be right.
“This is a fair point; with my original MYP, which I had bought (and never gotten) FSD for, they did upgrade me to MCU2 as part of that. Did I notice huge improvement? Not in any practical sense.”

You clearly said they upgraded you to MCU2. This implies that you had MCU1. Then you compare the performance and say there is no difference.
 
This is a bit of a straw man argument.

If (and this is clearly debatable at best or flat out wrong at worst) the only difference were the speed, I agree that it's a cut-and-dried argument.

If, on the other hand, there are tradeoffs in the new unit (e.g., performance for reduced range via increased energy usage, regardless of how much), then it's a consideration of costs/benefits for which there is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

Right now, it seems pretty clear that there is incontrovertibly a performance improvement in the new chip, though some debate over how much internet connection influences the practical benefit of this for things like maps draw speed.

There is anecdotal but unproven evidence that the new chip uses more energy, which results in a loss of range.

I personally couldn't draw anything conclusive out of this current state of affairs in terms of which is true or real costs/benefits.

My new MYP allegedly has AMD (will know tomorrow), but there's no way for me to evaluate range arguments in a vacuum -- and the only way I can really see would be a truly scientific test in something like an EPA range setup of one vs the other. I'm not sure those with that kind of setup care enough about this to do such a test though.
It isn't a strawman...Given we don't know what range tradeoff, if any, there is...

It could be that we find the Ryzen sucks up significant range..in which case we're having a different argument...

And it isn't at best debatable..at best it is cut and dry...at worst it is debatable...there is no wrong..it is flat out faster...that's a fact. Whether it ends up being worth it vs any range loss will make it debatable...
 
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“This is a fair point; with my original MYP, which I had bought (and never gotten) FSD for, they did upgrade me to MCU2 as part of that. Did I notice huge improvement? Not in any practical sense.”

You clearly said they upgraded you to MCU2. This implies that you had MCU1. Then you compare the performance and say there is no difference.
Ugh -- sorry! M3P is what I meant. Edited to correct.
 
It isn't a strawman...Given we don't know what range tradeoff, if any, there is...

It could be that we find the Ryzen sucks up significant range..in which case we're having a different argument...

And it isn't at best debatable..at best it is cut and dry...at worst it is debatable...there is no wrong..it is flat out faster...that's a fact. Whether it ends up being worth it vs any range loss will make it debatable...
Agree to disagree, I guess.

You're positing that the only difference between the two is better performance, and concluding no reasonable person would refuse it based on that premise. I'd say that's a fairly clear example of a straw man argument. One definition of such with which I agree, is "a misrepresentation of an opinion or viewpoint, designed to be as easy as possible to refute." Perhaps you have a different definition you go by?

As to the debatability of it being faster, I'd say I was pretty clear in saying "it seems pretty clear that there is incontrovertibly a performance improvement in the new chip, though some debate over how much internet connection influences the practical benefit of this for things like maps draw speed." I stand by that 100% and refute your (again, straw man) assertion that I somehow argued that the chip might not actually be faster.
 
Agree to disagree, I guess.

You're positing that the only difference between the two is better performance, and concluding no reasonable person would refuse it based on that premise. I'd say that's a fairly clear example of a straw man argument. One definition of such with which I agree, is "a misrepresentation of an opinion or viewpoint, designed to be as easy as possible to refute." Perhaps you have a different definition you go by?

As to the debatability of it being faster, I'd say I was pretty clear in saying "it seems pretty clear that there is incontrovertibly a performance improvement in the new chip, though some debate over how much internet connection influences the practical benefit of this for things like maps draw speed." I stand by that 100% and refute your (again, straw man) assertion that I somehow argued that the chip might not actually be faster.
Is it a misrepresentation of an opinion? Care to clarify with factual information? You don't know if the Ryzen decreases range. We do know the Ryzen is faster.

And yes, internet connection speed may influence performance for some things...that will be a variable factor in all of this right? But that doesn't change the fact on whether the Ryzen will perform better..we know it will. Saying the times the bottleneck becomes the internet connection means it won't be, wouldn't you call that a bit of misrepresentation of the facts? Because that may happen in some cases, but certainly not all the time..or even most of the time.
 
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The "newest iPhone" analogy is completely flawed though. The right analogy, if you want to go with that, is you and your friend go into the Apple store. You both purchase the "iPhone 13 Pro Max", and pay the same price, but for some incomprehensible reason yours came with the A14 CPU and the 60Hz screen. You're arguing that this is perfectly fine, that anyone who disagrees is being ridiculous, the iPhone 12 internals "work just fine", there are "probably drawbacks to the updated parts anyway". All of those things would be valid arguments for not upgrading to begin with. None of those things are valid arguments for a company selling customers two versions of the same product, at the same time, and at the same price, where one has significantly improved internals.

And yes, one day down the line, when you sell your "iPhone 13 Pro Max" that, for some weird reason, came with the iPhone 12 CPU and screen it will be worth less. And there will be a day, when Apple draws the iOS support line at the A15 CPU, that you will not get updates despite having an "iPhone 13"

That is your iPhone analogy. It's not about "making people feel bad for what they got", it's about not defending a customer hostile move by Tesla. As for the difference, it was the most significant positive thing I noticed when checking out my friends refreshed S in comparison to my 2020. Definitely more significant even than the reasonably improved interior quality. The performance difference is immediately noticeable every time you touch the screen which, especially with v11, is constantly. It isn't just for "games and YouTube" (which I completely ignore). Every single aspect of the UI is dramatically snappier. Once you've used it, going back to the Atom based MCU2 feels like a significant step back. On its own it might not be enough to warrant an upgrade, but it's definitely more than significant enough to be pissed off if you paid the same price yet didn't get the updated part.
 
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tangible1

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Jul 8, 2021
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The "newest iPhone" analogy is completely flawed though. The right analogy, if you want to go with that, is you and your friend go into the Apple store. You both purchase the "iPhone 13 Pro Max", and pay the same price, but for some incomprehensible reason yours came with the A14 CPU and the 60Hz screen. You're arguing that this is perfectly fine, that anyone who disagrees is being ridiculous, the iPhone 12 internals "work just fine", there are "probably drawbacks to the updated parts anyway". All of those things would be valid arguments for not upgrading to begin with. None of those things are valid arguments for a company selling customers two versions of the same product, at the same time, and at the same price, where one has significantly improved internals.

And yes, one day down the line, when you sell your "iPhone 13 Pro Max" that, for some weird reason, came with the iPhone 12 CPU and screen it will be worth less. And there will be a day, when Apple draws the iOS support line at the A15 CPU, that you will not get updates despite having an "iPhone 13"

That is your iPhone analogy. It's not about "making people feel bad for what they got", it's about not defending a customer hostile move by Tesla. As for the difference, it was the most significant positive thing I noticed when checking out my friends refreshed S in comparison to my 2020. Definitely more significant that the reasonably improved interior quality. The performance difference is immediately noticeable every time you touch the screen which, especially with v11, is constantly.
There's no analogy that can satisfy all nits to be picked. And this is about the MY, not the MS.
Neither of us know what material differences exist between those two platforms.

The bottom line is there's no material difference to the MY car and it's operation whether the MCU is an AMD Ryzan or an Intel Atom.
This is all much ado about nothing, with tribes now formed based on little more than internet blog hype.

Anyone with any true technical comprehension would recognize this, but it's now at the hands of keyboard cops.
 
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The "newest iPhone" analogy is completely flawed though. The right analogy, if you want to go with that, is you and your friend go into the Apple store. You both purchase the "iPhone 13 Pro Max", and pay the same price, but for some incomprehensible reason yours came with the A14 CPU and the 60Hz screen. You're arguing that this is perfectly fine, that anyone who disagrees is being ridiculous, the iPhone 12 internals "work just fine", there are "probably drawbacks to the updated parts anyway". All of those things would be valid arguments for not upgrading to begin with. None of those things are valid arguments for a company selling customers two versions of the same product, at the same time, and at the same price, where one has significantly improved internals.

And yes, one day down the line, when you sell your "iPhone 13 Pro Max" that, for some weird reason, came with the iPhone 12 CPU and screen it will be worth less. And there will be a day, when Apple draws the iOS support line at the A15 CPU, that you will not get updates despite having an "iPhone 13"

That is your iPhone analogy. It's not about "making people feel bad for what they got", it's about not defending a customer hostile move by Tesla. As for the difference, it was the most significant positive thing I noticed when checking out my friends refreshed S in comparison to my 2020. Definitely more significant even than the reasonably improved interior quality. The performance difference is immediately noticeable every time you touch the screen which, especially with v11, is constantly. It isn't just for "games and YouTube" (which I completely ignore). Every single aspect of the UI is dramatically snappier. Once you've used it, going back to the Atom based MCU2 feels like a significant step back. On its own it might not be enough to warrant an upgrade, but it's definitely more than significant enough to be pissed off if you paid the same price yet didn't get the updated part.
Good analogy, but I would modify it. It is more like if Apple were to deliver some iPhone 13s with the A15, and others with the A11. And then when some users point out the ridiculousness of this on an Apple forum, some fanboy claps back that these phones are exactly the same because they both make phone calls and run the same apps.
 

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