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New Montreal Loaner

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Doug_G, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Look what came in the Valet trailer today...

    IMG_4556.JPG

    Yep - that's a P85D with Insane Mode!!! Apparently they got it as a trade-in... someone wanted a P90D-Ludicrous.

    Yes, I sure did try it. And gave rides to everyone at the office.
     
  2. agloutney

    agloutney Member

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  3. Roadrunner13

    Roadrunner13 Member

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    Yeah...that's also how drug dealers hook you... give you a little taste of it.

    Just a standard S loaner during my Roadster's maintenance got my hooked.
    What can I tell, I'm weak :)

    Hope you're stronger than me and hold on to your lovery Signature Red!
     
  4. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    Why did they trailer a loaner? They always drive mine to me and I'm 260km away.
     
  5. CadillacJack

    CadillacJack Member

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    Probably the same guy that traded in his Sig Performance when the P85D came out 2 years later..that I bought via CPO. :)
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    They did drive the loaner here once, and drove my car back to Montreal. But once they got the truck and trailer they've been using it exclusively. I'm guessing they'd rather carry the customer's car safe and sound in an enclosed trailer...
     
  7. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    That would be my preference if my car were to be valeted for any distance.
     
  8. llavalle

    llavalle Member

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    Humm, so you're the lucky one who got the P85D... and I had to "endure" the blue P85 :D

    In case this was not clear : I'm 100% kidding here.

    Did it have NG seats? I'm still on the fence about doing the retrofit in my car but I want to be able to sit in them for more than 15min to decide to get them.
     
  9. iKhalid

    iKhalid Member

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    Out of curiosity, what happens if a damage happen to the car while the valet is on the way to or from Montreal (driving not on a trailer)? I'm talking here from a rock chip to an accident. If you are an owner, is a repair considered enough?
     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Last time I got a loaner, it was an S60. When he opened the trailer I jokingly said, "Are you kidding me? I was expecting a P90D!" :biggrin:

    Yes it has the NG seats. You definitely feel more "gripped in place" than the old seats, and they're definitely higher quality. I like. Though the back of the driver's seat on this particular car squeaks for some reason when you move around.

    After having fun with insane mode and the autopilot, I was joking around that I was hoping for a call from Tesla: "I'm so sorry but the truck rolled on the 417. The driver's fine but your car is toast. You'll just have to keep the P85D..."

    I don't know what Tesla's policy on that would be. Surely it must have happened at some point to someone, so there probably is a policy, though I bet there's some case-by-case considerations. Hopefully it's not something that comes up often.
     
  11. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Yes, too bad it wasn't a P85D. I took my P85D in today for Winter tires and the LTE upgrade and they gave me a crummy Cadillac. (edit In Toronto, not Mtl)
     
  12. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I still miss my old Cadillac, so I probably wouldn't have been as disappointed as you... but the last time they didn't have a Model S for me, all I got was a Ford Fusion.
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'll have to one-up you on that with my infamous Ford Fiesta loaner... Winter Ice Adventure
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    So some observations on the P85D loaner, in comparison to my "classic" Signature P85.

    1. First the obvious - holy crap that thing is fast! Launching from a standstill is almost violent. Makes my P85 and Roadster seem tame.

    2. Definitely a more refined car, in a number of ways. Not just fit and finish; for example, some aspects of firmware operation are more consistent. In my P85 if you open the trunk by FOB the doors stay locked, but not if you open it with the latch - a weird inconsistency; the P85D always left the doors unlocked until you walked up to them. I liked the new seats, though the driver's seat tended to squeak against the center console.

    3. It was a little less refined in a few small ways, too. There is only one overhead light in the trunk, and it's not very effective; mine has three including two down load either side of the door. The P85D trunk is pitch black despite the one light. There are no ambient lights (though it has a much more effective fog light)... maybe this car is lacking a lighting package? Also the autopilot car screen layout deletes the power meter, but adds it to the console energy app. That means in the winter I'd want to always keep the energy app up so I can see the regen limits; unfortunately that would consume a slot I'd normally use for something else.

    4. Cute how the charge port closes itself. My P85 tends to do the opposite. I close the door, and it pops open again. Some little firmware glitch they've never fixed... and probably never will! The newer car's auto-close is a nice touch though.

    5. It appears the P85D always holds the brakes when the car is at a standstill. It lights up a symbol on the console to indicate this. Mine doesn't have that icon, even when I'm on a steep incline and the hill-hold engages. The P85D appeared to do this whenever it was stopped.

    6. I really like the auto headlights! Turn on high beam and forget. Except one time I turned it off because it was toggling on and off in quick succession, due to a combination of geography and well-spaced oncoming vehicles. I thought it would distract oncoming drivers. Other than that one time, which was just a neurotic edge case, it worked brilliantly.

    7. The intermittent wiper seems to work somewhat better than my car. Not perfect, but better.

    8. The adaptive cruise control is really slickly done. It's far smarter than my old Infiniti G37.

    9. Autopilot deserves a more extensive discussion. Since I drove the loaner back to Montreal (just so happened I needed to be in town), I got a good chance to try it out.

    When I got onto the 417 going to Montreal, I turned on the autopilot and rested my hands on my knees, just below the wheel so I could grab it quickly if needed. I didn't need to touch the wheel for an hour. I occasionally used the turn blinker to change lanes, and it worked beautifully. The gradual sweeping corners of the 417 were no problem for the autopilot, and it stayed near the center of the lane 99% of the time. Occasionally it would drift slightly to the right.

    When I got to the Ontario / Quebec border and went onto the 40, the autopilot immediately got skittish. It started telling me to hold the wheel. Several times I saw no reason for that, and nothing happened. But at the first off-ramp (with a finely dotted line, different from Ontario) it suddenly lurched right. I grabbed the wheel and pulled it straight, then turned autopilot on again. Then we came up to a more aggressive corner than we have on the 417 (I never noticed this before driving manually), and it told me to put my hands on the wheel. I did, and it kept working but was not as stable as I'd like. The next time it more insistently popped up a message in red with a symbol showing hands on the wheel, and saying that I had to hold the wheel to maintain speed. I was already holding it, and I wiggled the wheel to make sure the car knew this, but the cruise control kicked out anyway. Curious. Some kind of panic mode I guess. I decided I would continue using autopilot, but keep my hands solidly at the 9 and 3 position the rest of the time I was on the 40.

    If the car is slowing because you're approaching the back of a car, and you hit the turn blinker to change lanes, the car accelerates back up immediately but gently. I like that. Always hated how the adaptive cruise would balk too much in these situations on my old Infiniti; this is quite slickly done.

    You need to keep the turn blinker on until the car is most of the way across. Otherwise it will pull back into the original lane. Sensible, though I had to keep the blinker on slightly longer than I'm used to.

    I like how the road lines on the display brighten and dim to show you how well it's seeing them - handy for evaluating how the autopilot might work before turning it on. They show shades of grey when the autopilot is off, and blue when it is on. It also indicates how far it can see, by the length of the lines. As the road grade limits or extends how far you can see the lines, it shows you. I also remember noticing once the car in front of my was driving over the line; I looked down and the little car graphic was also driving over the line. Smart.

    I've noticed a few things that could stand improvement:

    1. On slightly more aggressive corners, it tends to turn too late, then overcorrect, and continually bounce back and forth between undercorrecting and overcorrecting. It's not very reassuring so I drove manually (adaptive cruise is fine though) on roads like that.

    2. If it loses track of the right-hand line, it tends to suddenly lurch to the right. I was driving on Mitch Owens Drive on autopilot, which has lines on both sides, and there are a few sharp crests along the route. When it lost the lines for half a second at a crest the autopilot would suddenly lurch right. This was quite consistent (in fact similar to the exit lane event on the 40... though in that case there was a dotted line). Perhaps it's a panic response to momentarily losing the lines; i.e. stay away from the oncoming lane. If so it's too aggressive. It also had a lesser tendency to do that if the right line disappeared temporarily. Maybe that's something the self-learning feature will smooth over after a while, but I think it could stand a tweak.

    3. If you have only a center line, the car tends to hunt back and forth. It really likes having lines on both sides. So I decided I would not use the autopilot unless there are lines on both sides of the lane. When there are two lines it's quite stable.

    4. If the ultrasonics pick up something, it lights up a sector under the car symbol. Nice to see it working, but I noticed that there was a wide variation in what it would pick up and at what distance. Some objects are apparently more detectable than others. Presumably this could save you from side-swiping while changing lanes, but you really want to check first!

    5. On one occasion I was going about 90 kph when some traffic stopped at a light far ahead. I tried waiting to see what would happen, but chickened out and hit the brakes because it was looking like it was going to be a panic stop! In these situations, you really want to toggle off the cruise control early and regen down to a stop.

    All in all I think the autopilot is fun to use, and a positive development, but you really do need to pay attention at all times. Fortunately I was not even the slightest bit inclined to lessen my attention; I don't know if that would change with more familiarity, but I kinda doubt it. I know it's not a safety system, but I could see it saving someone's bacon once in a while. You know, brief distraction and whoops! Or you're overly tired and momentarily blank... though I sure hope you'd get the message and pull over for a rest if that happened!
     
  15. mrElbe

    mrElbe Member

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    Item 5. was implemented in the latest firmware release. Also when in brake hold, the brake lights are on.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    They loaded new firmware into my car in Montreal, but I don't recall it working any differently. I'll have another look.
     
  17. Mad Hungarian

    Mad Hungarian Member

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    Doug, thanks for this excellent and detailed report on your experience with the AP. I've been kinda on the fence as to whether I'll order if it becomes available on the M3 and much will have to do with how well it's progressed by then.
    One thing I did recall reading recently was someone in the U.S. describing exactly what you experienced when encountering the off-ramps on the 40 in Quebec (and in the interests of science I will restrain myself here from attributing any of it to our generally horrible roads), however as he drove that same road daily and performed the same corrections the car progressively learned it and by week's end got it right, as it is supposed to. Did you have the chance to repeat any routes and observe this effect?
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    No; this was a loaner car, and I made just one modest road trip when I returned it to Montreal Service (200 km away). I've seen other posts on the forum where people have commented about "learning" working in exactly this situation.

    What I did notice is that lines were solidly painted on the 40, but the dashed lines exit lane lines are very short, i.e. .... as opposed to --- on the 417. For some reason the car didn't see them very well. Either the camera is relatively low resolution and essentially blurred the line, or the software simply didn't recognize the pattern very well. The software could still see the center line very clearly, so there was no reason for it to lunge to the right (which as I've reported it tends to do whenever the right hand line disappears). I think this is something that the programmers will figure out and resolve in due course.
     
  19. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    That's awesome, Doug, thank you for that report.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Nope, my classic P85 has not changed this behavior at all. It hill-holds on steep inclines. It does not apply the brakes whenever you stop, and there's no symbol on the dashboard for this.
     

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