New outlet install, Tesla charger or NEMA 14-50 Plug?

[mreynolds767]

Planning on having an electrician install a new 240 outlet in my garage. Garage is on main floor with the circuit panel in the lower basement (finished basement and panel on complete opposite side of the house). Is going to be fairly costly to get done due to having to snake the wires and the long distance. I do have room on the panel to add on. I would add a new 50 AMP breaker.

Had a few questions:
If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?
I know the Bryant NEMA 14-50 plus is one recommended on this forum.
What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?
Think I read that the Telsa wall charger is really only beneficial if you have 2 Cars? Might be some value in future proofing to be able to charge 2 EV's at once, but I assume the Telsa charger only works on a Telsa? Will be a few years before replacing wife's car is even a thought anyway.

In my areas Telsa does offer installation which given my house situation may end up cheaper, I assume if a Tesla install I would have to buy the Telsa wall charger? The Tesla car salesman said it would be $1500 including the charger I believe but he may tell everyone that and the install team could quote me higher once they get there I would guess.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug? Would not be a huge distance as laundry room is right next to garage but since temp only would use in the evenings and not close the garage door. I would plan on unplugging the dryer for this purpose not wanting to buy a specialized adapter as it would only be a stop gap until I get the new plug installed in the garage. Dryer is electric, powered by a 240 plug on separate circuit ; believe the circuit is 30 AMP ; it is not 50.
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?

Have a long commute so need the 240 charging power, not interested in any 120 charging solutions.
I would charge most every night to 80 percent.
My electric company does not offer any off-peak discounts or any other EV related benefits and have high electric costs compared to most of the country.

 

[spacemnspiff]

I have had two NEMA 14-50 outlets installed in the garage, one on each side, this included the electrician run a 100A line to the garage with a sub-panel that has two 50A breakers. If I need a Tesla wall charger later, I could always add it later. I have a SR+ M3, so my charge rate was maxing out at 32A/hr, that also helped in making a 50A line decision.

 

[Federico]

Are you going to use conduit or romex?, you could install a 14-50R let say in the middle (between both cars) at a higher place (5ft from the ground) and use the mobile connector. You will save the cost of a Wall connector and if in the near future you get another Tesla or EV, you can buy it and use the 14-50R or make an small modification and connect a direct Charger/Connector, Tesla/ChargePoint or any other brand. Keep in mind if you have a Model 3 SR/SR+ the maximum you can charge is 32A, a wall connector will not make a big difference in speed.

 

[XLR82XS]

Had a few questions:
If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?
Wall charger is a direct install - no "plug" per se in an outlet.

What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?
Think I read that the Telsa wall charger is really only beneficial if you have 2 Cars? Might be some value in future proofing to be able to charge 2 EV's at once, but I assume the Telsa charger only works on a Telsa?
Looks is the main thing. You'll get the same amperage with the wall charger as a dedicated 240 circuit.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug?
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?
Yes. Since my 240 15-40 outlet is on the back wall of the garage, I utilize an 240 Camco extension cord with the mobile charger uinit and it works perfectly.

Have a long commute so need the 240 charging power, not interested in any 120 charging solutions.
I would charge most every night to 80 percent.
My electric company does not offer any off-peak discounts or any other EV related benefits and have high electric costs compared to most of the country.
I lived in Boston for a few months - doesnt surprise me the EC doesnt offer discounts. Charge at off-peak hours if you can. I benefit from off-peak hours here in Florida which is great. (10pm-6am)

 

[Rocky_H]

If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?

Neither. The wall connector is meant to be a hardwired device, so it would not be plugging into an outlet. But it's very easy to change either way. You can still use the same wiring run and just take the outlet off and mount and connect a wall connector onto those same wires.

What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?

Might be a charging speed difference. I didn't see you mention what version of Model 3 you are getting. The different battery sizes come with different power onboard chargers inside the car. If you have the long range battery, then it can take up to 48A of charging power. If it is the mid range or short range, those come with a 32A limited charger. @XLR82XS said there won't be any charging speed difference from different equipment on a 50A circuit, but that's not necessarily true. The mobile charge cable is limited at 32A. The wall connectors can use higher power, so they could pass through 40A from a 50A circuit. So if you're getting a short range Model 3, it would limit internally to 32A no matter what, so you couldn't get a speed difference. But if you get the long range car that has the higher power charger, it could make use of 40A from a wall connector. For overnight charging, though, it generally won't make much difference. People are sleeping and won't care if the car finishes at 2AM or 4AM.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug? Would not be a huge distance as laundry room is right next to garage but since temp only would use in the evenings and not close the garage door. I would plan on unplugging the dryer for this purpose not wanting to buy a specialized adapter as it would only be a stop gap until I get the new plug installed in the garage. Dryer is electric, powered by a 240 plug on separate circuit ; believe the circuit is 30 AMP ; it is not 50.
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?

Certainly doable. Your 30A dryer outlet would be one of two types, depending on how old your house is. The older ones, for houses built before about 1996 used an outlet called a 10-30. For newer houses, it would be a 14-30. Here's a chart of the various outlet types, so you can take a look and see which kind it is to know what kind of extension cord you would need. I think Amazon sells extensions for either type.
NEMA connector - Wikipedia

And then you would need the appropriate Tesla plug for your charge cable--either 10-30 or 14-30. They have those on the Tesla website you can order.

 

[jebinc]

@mreynolds767 - Some additional thoughts to ponder... I first installed a 240v NEMA 10-30 Dryer outlet, and got 24 amps out of the Mobile connector that came with the car. While I could have lived with that level of charging, I didn't like the fact that I had plug and unplug the mobile charger every time I when out where I might need to charge on the road. I also didn't like how warm the mobile charger got and didn't want to rely on it for continuous home use. Plugging and unplugging repeatedly could cause problems as well, depending on the quality of receptacle used. I suspect an electrician will use a cheap $5 version to pad profit.

I ended up later installing a HPWC on a 60 amp dedicated circuit - for 48 amps of charging. Used 4 gauge wire and now have a solution that works for me, and the Mobile connector stowed neatly in the truck of my M3. The last picture shows (to the left of the gentron) the NEMA 10-30 receptacle I started with. Got 24 amps out of that for less than $12 cost - whilst I awaited the arrival of my HPWC. If you are going to spend a ton of money running a lot of wire, have them run 3 AWG THHN - that way, you could always just add the HPWC quickly later, if so desired.

Last thought - If you think you might add non Telsa EV's down the road, you could install a standard EV charger (L3 or L2) and just use the Tesla J1772 adapter that came with your M3 - but again, have the electrician future proof your long run by using 3 AWG THHN wire. I would also have the run the white neutral wire, even though it won't be used right now.

 

[XLR82XS]

I have a LR and the car will not charge over 32A at home with the UMC. It's charging on a dedicated 50A circuit.

 

[Rocky_H]

I first installed a 240v outlet, and got 32 amps out of the Mobile connector that came with the car. While I could have lived with that level of charging, but I didn't like the fact that I had plug and unplug the mobile charger every time I when out where I would need to charge on the road.

Well, to elaborate on this for new owners, this is getting pretty rare that people would need to bring the charging cable with them often. That charge cable is only for plugging into outlets. How often would you really be doing that? These other charging resources don't even use it:
Superchargers
CHAdeMO
J1772 public stations
Tesla wall connectors (destination charging places)

So it's getting a bit rare in 2019 that you would go somewhere you are out of range of all of those. I take my cable with me a few times a year.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I have a LR and the car will not charge over 32A at home with the UMC. It's charging on a dedicated 50A circuit.

The Gen2 UMC has a limit of 32 Amps. If you want 40 Amps on a LR 3, you need a Gen1 UMC. Alternatively, you could use a WC and potentially charge at up to 48 Amps.

 

[Rocky_H]

I have a LR and the car will not charge over 32A at home with the UMC. It's charging on a dedicated 50A circuit.

Yes, because as I mentioned the 2nd generation UMC is limited to 32A. The older 1st generation UMC could do 40A.

 

[XLR82XS]

Maybe a dumb question: why do the gen 2 UMCs charge at a lower amperage? Heat issues with gen 1 & 40A?

 

[srs5694]

Planning on having an electrician install a new 240 outlet in my garage. Garage is on main floor with the circuit panel in the lower basement (finished basement and panel on complete opposite side of the house). Is going to be fairly costly to get done due to having to snake the wires and the long distance. I do have room on the panel to add on. I would add a new 50 AMP breaker.

Had a few questions:
If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?

Most Tesla Wall Connectors are hard-wired; they don't use a plug. Tesla has sold Wall Connectors with NEMA 14-50 plugs from time to time, but they tend to sell out quickly and then disappear from the Web site. There are third-party EVSEs that are sold in both hard-wired and plug configurations, but chances are you're better off with a Tesla unit, since the third-party EVSEs all have J1772 car-side plugs, so you'd need an adapter with any of them.

What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?

Several benefits spring to mind, but I'm probably forgetting some:

• The Wall Connector can charge at a higher amperage. I don't recall its exact limit offhand, but it's in excess of the 48A that the LR Model 3 can accept. That said, this is not an advantage if you're buying an SR or SR+ Model 3, since those are limited to 32A, which is also the limit for the UMC that comes with the car. Also, the 50A circuit you say you're planning to install will limit any EVSE to 40A. (The EVSE can only draw up to 80% of the circuit's rating, according to code.) To get 48A, you'd need a 60A breaker and wiring to match. Note also that this difference is unlikely to be important; even at lower amperage than the UMC can provide (say, 24A or even 16A), you'll probably be fully charged in plenty of time unless you drive a lot.
• The Wall Connector comes with a built-in holster for the car-side plug, and you can more easily drape the cable around the unit. This is a pretty trivial cable management advantage.
• The Wall Connector has a NEMA 3R weather rating, which means it's safe to mount outdoors. AFAIK, the UMC has no such rating. Since you're talking about a garage, this is likely to be unimportant to you.
• Buying a Wall Connector means you'll have two EVSEs. If one breaks, you won't have to rush to get a replacement.
• Buying a Wall Connector means you'll be able to keep the UMC in your car at all times. This is unlikely to be necessary; it's more like having a spare tire in the trunk than anything else. OTOH, if you go on frequent road trips to locations with electricity but no nearby EVSE, like a relative's house or a cabin in the woods, then having the UMC in your trunk at all times may be handy.
• The Wall Connector can, if installed on a single circuit with a second Wall Connector, communicate with its counterpart, enabling both devices to be used simultaneously without overloading the circuit. If the requested charge rate from both cars exceeds the circuit's capabilities (like if you plug in two LR Model 3s on 60A circuit), then the charge rate will be cut on both cars until one is finished, whereupon the remaining unit will ramp up to its or the car's limit.

Think I read that the Telsa wall charger is really only beneficial if you have 2 Cars? Might be some value in future proofing to be able to charge 2 EV's at once, but I assume the Telsa charger only works on a Telsa? Will be a few years before replacing wife's car is even a thought anyway.

The main benefit to the Wall Connector if you've got two cars is my final bullet point above. You could also install two circuits or delay buying EVSE(s) until you've actually got two cars and then look at what will suit your needs based on what's available in the market at that time.

Tesla's Wall Connector can't be used with non-Tesla vehicles as-is; however, there is an adapter available called the JDapter, which sells for $239. Personally, if I were sharing one EVSE between a Tesla and a non-Tesla, I'd probably go the other way, since Teslas ship with a J1772 adapter to go the other way, and if I needed another one, they're only $95. (OTOH, Tesla's Wall Connector is near the bottom of the price range for EVSEs, and is likely cheaper than others with its amperage capabilities, so the price difference may not be very big in the end if you want more than 32A.)

In my areas Telsa does offer installation which given my house situation may end up cheaper, I assume if a Tesla install I would have to buy the Telsa wall charger? The Tesla car salesman said it would be $1500 including the charger I believe but he may tell everyone that and the install team could quote me higher once they get there I would guess.

I can't speak to what Tesla is offering you, but be sure the price is firm before signing anything. I'd also recommend asking an electrician or two that you trust but that's not recommended by Tesla. I've seen claims here that at least some Tesla-recommended electricians provide quotes that are rather high.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug? Would not be a huge distance as laundry room is right next to garage but since temp only would use in the evenings and not close the garage door. I would plan on unplugging the dryer for this purpose not wanting to buy a specialized adapter as it would only be a stop gap until I get the new plug installed in the garage. Dryer is electric, powered by a 240 plug on separate circuit ; believe the circuit is 30 AMP ; it is not 50.
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?

You'd need to buy an adapter/cord/plug for the UMC. These are $35 from Tesla. You'll need to figure out what type of plug your dryer uses -- it's probably a NEMA 10-30 or a NEMA 14-30, depending on the age of the dryer's wiring; however, it could be something else. Be sure to check the amperage of the circuit, as well as what the plug uses. It used to be legal to put a higher-amperage plug (like a NEMA 10-50) on a lower-amperage circuit (like 30A). If that's what you've got, you should either get an extension cord that converts down to a 30A socket or be sure to adjust the amperage on the Tesla's screen when you charge. If you don't, the Tesla will try to draw 32A out of the UMC, which is likely to trip your 30A breaker.

All that said, extension cords for 240v, 30A+ tend to be rather pricey, so it might be better to stick with 120v, given that this is temporary. Even if you can't fully charge overnight, you could supplement that charging with visits to Superchargers or public L2 chargers. Of course, you'll have to judge the prices yourself, given how long an extension you need.

One more point is that a lot of dryer plugs aren't designed for frequent plugging/unplugging, so you could run into problems and need to replace the dryer's plug if you have to use this temporary setup for long enough.

Another option might be possible: If any of the circuits running to your garage are 20A circuits, have nothing else on them, and have 20A sockets (the kind with one T-shaped slot), then you could buy a NEMA 5-20 adapter from Tesla. This will charge at 16A rather than 12A, albeit still at 120v, so it'll be a little faster than what you'd get with the adapter that comes with the UMC, although still not close to what you'd get with a UMC running at 32A and 240v. Still, it might be enough extra charging speed to make it usable as a short-term solution, at lower cost than an extension cord and adapter for whatever your dryer uses.

 

[KenC]

Planning on having an electrician install a new 240 outlet in my garage. Garage is on main floor with the circuit panel in the lower basement (finished basement and panel on complete opposite side of the house). Is going to be fairly costly to get done due to having to snake the wires and the long distance. I do have room on the panel to add on. I would add a new 50 AMP breaker.

Had a few questions:
If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?
I know the Bryant NEMA 14-50 plus is one recommended on this forum.
What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?
Think I read that the Telsa wall charger is really only beneficial if you have 2 Cars? Might be some value in future proofing to be able to charge 2 EV's at once, but I assume the Telsa charger only works on a Telsa? Will be a few years before replacing wife's car is even a thought anyway.

In my areas Telsa does offer installation which given my house situation may end up cheaper, I assume if a Tesla install I would have to buy the Telsa wall charger? The Tesla car salesman said it would be $1500 including the charger I believe but he may tell everyone that and the install team could quote me higher once they get there I would guess.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug? Would not be a huge distance as laundry room is right next to garage but since temp only would use in the evenings and not close the garage door. I would plan on unplugging the dryer for this purpose not wanting to buy a specialized adapter as it would only be a stop gap until I get the new plug installed in the garage. Dryer is electric, powered by a 240 plug on separate circuit ; believe the circuit is 30 AMP ; it is not 50.
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?

Have a long commute so need the 240 charging power, not interested in any 120 charging solutions.
I would charge most every night to 80 percent.
My electric company does not offer any off-peak discounts or any other EV related benefits and have high electric costs compared to most of the country.

Old dryer plug, 10-30, or newer one, 14-30? You can look up either as an extension cord. They're pricey, because they use heavy gauge wiring. Here's an example of a newer dryer plug 14-30 to NEMA 14-50, as a 50ft extension:
https://www.amazon.com/Parkworld-88...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07K3Y36FF

 

[Big Dog]

OP: at a minimum, I'd recommend a 60 amp cable so you can add a WC later if you choose to do so. The additional cost of the heavier cable is not much given teh overall cost of your project.

You don't 'need' a WC, but they look cool and are easy to use. So, the additional cost is personal preference.

 

[jebinc]

@mreynolds767 - a lot of good input from members today. Please let us know what you decided on and why. Thank you.

 

[jerseygirl18]

besides great info..i too am waiting for a MX 325 range(?) that will go btween 2 residences...so, i get to do the plug/no plug twice :/ after reading all the remarks i think i'm going w/tesla charger. i must say my"closer" @ tesla was very negative on them. Not with a lot of reasons just said not very useful. i feel from chats today here..the WC are very useful..beyond the ease of use vs plugging & unplugging sounds like more amp is available that way. thanks for all the good info

 

[LochTes]

Planning on having an electrician install a new 240 outlet in my garage. Garage is on main floor with the circuit panel in the lower basement (finished basement and panel on complete opposite side of the house). Is going to be fairly costly to get done due to having to snake the wires and the long distance. I do have room on the panel to add on. I would add a new 50 AMP breaker.

Had a few questions:
If I went with the Tesla wall charger do I use the exact same plug or a different plug than I would get installed anyway?
I know the Bryant NEMA 14-50 plus is one recommended on this forum.
What is the benefit of the Telsa wall charger unit if using for just 1 Model 3? compared to just buying the cheaper adapter plug?
Think I read that the Telsa wall charger is really only beneficial if you have 2 Cars? Might be some value in future proofing to be able to charge 2 EV's at once, but I assume the Telsa charger only works on a Telsa? Will be a few years before replacing wife's car is even a thought anyway.

In my areas Telsa does offer installation which given my house situation may end up cheaper, I assume if a Tesla install I would have to buy the Telsa wall charger? The Tesla car salesman said it would be $1500 including the charger I believe but he may tell everyone that and the install team could quote me higher once they get there I would guess.

As a temp solution for a couple of weeks, could one get away with running an extension cord to my Dryer plug? Would not be a huge distance as laundry room is right next to garage but since temp only would use in the evenings and not close the garage door. I would plan on unplugging the dryer for this purpose not wanting to buy a specialized adapter as it would only be a stop gap until I get the new plug installed in the garage. Dryer is electric, powered by a 240 plug on separate circuit ; believe the circuit is 30 AMP ; it is not 50.
What do I need to buy to do this other than a proper extension cord?

Have a long commute so need the 240 charging power, not interested in any 120 charging solutions.
I would charge most every night to 80 percent.
My electric company does not offer any off-peak discounts or any other EV related benefits and have high electric costs compared to most of the country.

Unless you need to shave a few hours off your home charging time a 14-50 outlet makes a lot of sense. I bought a Gen 1 charger on eBay and leave that plugged in at home I keep the one that came with the car for travel purposes. Check eBay for gen 1or gen 2 chargers. You will need to buy the 14-50 adapter to plug into the 240v outlet. A big advantage— if you anticipate moving it is far easier to unplug your charger and take it to the new house than get the electrician back to remove the wall charger.

 

[mreynolds767]

@mreynolds767 - a lot of good input from members today. Please let us know what you decided on and why. Thank you.

Yes excellent info
Thank you all who have commented

I am a little behind so not done any more research but have learned a few things I did not understand previously ; such as the Tesla Wall Charger is hardwired in and not plugged in

Leaning toward getting a plug installed
Though if Tesla install ends up being cheaper in cost but requires me buying their wall Charger I may go with it for that reason.
In my area according to my advisor at least Tesla does installs ; their residential Solar unit does them
I know last year that was not the case so seems to be a new offering.
Will also get a quote from an electrician in my neighborhood to compare in just getting an outlet installed
Like the idea of having 2 outlets installed at one time for future proofing it ; just need to consult a pro on that as I am not sure my existing 200 amp panel in the house could handle 2 new outlets of that much load

The advise on which cables/adapters I will need is very helpful

 

[Rocky_H]

Will also get a quote from an electrician in my neighborhood to compare in just getting an outlet installed

And if you are doing this, just request it as getting a 14-50 RV outlet. The Tesla markup tax is real:

Electrician: "The estimate comes out to three hundred dollars."
You (excitedly) "Cool! It's for my new Tesla that will be coming!!!"
Electrician: "Oh, did I say hundred? I meant thousand."

It's usually not quite that bad, but no kidding that when people have said the magic word "Tesla" when they ask for the estimate, or if the electrician finds it out while looking at your place, sometimes the estimates come in almost double what they should be.

 

[jebinc]

And if you are doing this, just request it as getting a 14-50 RV outlet. The Tesla markup tax is real:

Electrician: "The estimate comes out to three hundred dollars."
You (excitedly) "Cool! It's for my new Tesla that will be coming!!!"
Electrician: "Oh, did I say hundred? I meant thousand."

It's usually not quite that bad, but no kidding that when people have said the magic word "Tesla" when they ask for the estimate, or if the electrician finds it out while looking at your place, sometimes the estimates come in almost double what they should be.

Exactly the reason I did the installation myself (exceeding local code requirements as well). Outlet and HPWC plus sub panel and surge suppression.