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New P85D owner has questions of other P85D owners

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Asummers, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Asummers

    Asummers Member

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    Hello!

    I just purchased a Feb 2015 P85D 30k miles, last Saturday and I have some questions about its performance that I think might be abnormal. Since This is my first Tesla I don’t have any prior experience to compare it to.

    The 240 mile drive home on the highway averaged 350 watt/hour per mile. This is with no climate control, and highway speeds of 65-75 for the most part. The car started with 250 miles full charge and got about 90% of that. The car seemed to perform perfectly but now I wonder if I should have done better on power.

    Since getting the car home, around town driving of 25-50mph driving, no highway, no climate control, chill mode on, range mode on, driving it like it’s a Corolla, I get about 400/hr. If I put it in sport mode and turn the heat on and drive like a normal person around town, it is about 480 and I am on track to get about 130 miles out of a 205 mile charge. Again I don’t have prior experience with Tesla, but other hybrid cars I’ve driven generally exceed mileage expectations at these speeds and perform worse on the highway. Does the Tesla do better on the highway than city driving?

    I also hear a brief vibration sound that lasts about 3-5 seconds intermittently. It will occur maybe 4-5 times in 20 miles of driving at speeds between 40-65 mph. I cannot figure out how to reproduce it reliably. It sounds and feels like driving over rumble strips on the highway, but softer.

    Today the standard regenerative braking stopped working. The car coasts and requires braking like a typical car. The power graph indicates that only very mild regeneration is occurring when the car coasts. This might have started today after I had to reset the center display because the navigation stopped working yesterday (stuck on ‘navigation initializing’ forever, the reset does seem to have fixed that) Prior to today the regeneration was strong enough that I rarely had to apply the brakes.

    The steering creaks badly when doing turns at slow speed, like doing a 3 point turn to pull into the garage.

    For a supposed 3.2 0-60, this car takes 3.2 sec to go 40-60 this evening, but it was about 29 deg F. This was on insane mode.

    So what I would ask from all of you kind people, is any of this normal, and if not, how do I present this to service to get it remedied? I have no experience with them but I fully expect them to tell me it is all normal, except maybe the creaky steering.

    Tesla has yet to transfer ownership so I cannot schedule service yet. Anybody have any good vibes from the Cincinnati service center?

    I’m trying to not get depressed but I’ve had more problems In the first 5 days than I had in the last 9 years with my last car.

    I appreciate any advice. thank you
     
  2. aromasca

    aromasca Member

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    I found the Tesla service really good about trying to solve issues. it's not as if you won't run into issue, you will but their attitude is always very positive and they go a long way to try and make things right.
    Hang in there, it's an awesome product and worth it.

    As for service, I don't see a reason you won't be able to schedule it for service? as long as you drive in with a set of keys that's about all they need.
     
  3. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Do you have the 21" wheels? I can tell you our P85D's efficiency went to crap once we put 21" staggered wheels on vs the 19". The model S is much less efficient in town driving. They seem to be tuned more to highway miles. Since it sounds like you live somewhere cold, I would guess those efficiency numbers are fairly typical assuming you have the 21s like we do.

    Regen is limited in cold weather until the battery warms up. It does not take very cold weather to trigger it, I have seen it limited just below 50 degrees before. If you drive for a good 10 minutes or so and regen doesn't start to return, then something is probably wrong.

    There have been reports of steering issues in the P85Ds We owned our CPO 1 week and the power steering crapped out. They had to replace the whole rack. Others here have seen similar failures, so getting that checked out is not a bad idea. Same with your road vibration issue. Could be a lot of things causing that - wheel bearings, suspension, alignment, etc.


    When you tested the performance, how full was the battery and how warm was the car? If it wasn't very full and it was cold, your performance is not going to be as good. I can say that ours can do a 40-70 freeway pass faster than I can think (and I often end up at 80-90 before I realize it). If you click the max battery button, it will heat the battery up for you so you can see if the cold weather is affecting your performance.
     
  4. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    Our P85D has never achieved anywhere near the rated range under any conditions. Closer to 200 miles from a full battery on a perfect day, less with real world conditions. I'm not sure whether acceleration degrades over time/mileage, but seat of the pants says that our P85D is nowhere near as quick as it used to be. Could be I just got used to the acceleration, but I doubt that explains all of it.
     
  5. Asummers

    Asummers Member

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    Thanks for your help. I have 21” wheels. Good to know that regen requires the car to warm up, I only took short trips today and at 29 it’s the coldest day since I’ve had it. Good to know that it does worse in town than on the highway. Maybe I’m ok. I see so many reports of people’s lifetime efficiency around 300, I don’t think I could get that going downhill both ways.

    I will schedule with service but I’m trying to know how pushy I need to be, whether something really is a problem.
     
  6. aromasca

    aromasca Member

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    My 16 miles one way commute is consuming 450 Wh/m and that is about mixed 70% highway with traffic and the rest is in town, also 21" staggered.
     
  7. SJW61

    SJW61 Member

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    I think that 350 w/h per mile is just about right, comparable to what I get on mine if climate control is off. I've also got the 21" wheels. (If you haven't seen it in the manual to lower consumption Tesla suggests using the seat heaters rather than climate control if you're still comfortable). I notice a jump in consumption above 65 mph, esp above 75 mph. And as I remember it, the Tesla Motors site used to list range at 65mph, they don't anymore, just as EPA. Your around town w/h consumption does seem high, but since it was normal on the road, it probably has more to do with heating.

    I too sometimes hear mild groaning or more like rubbing noises in the steering, I just ignore it. I suspect also it may have something to do with the low temps you're driving in.

    Your 40-60 time does seem abnormal. My experience is the same as Az_Rael, 40 to 60 is more like 40-80/90 before I can take two breaths. And I drive pretty much full time in Range mode. I'd try that again in Sport Mode and check your battery charge.

    And congrats on your new car--in case you're not aware the P85D's from October 2014 till I think it was April 2015 are (in my opinion) the best driver's Model S's, essentially P85D+'s, though that was never an official designation. I looked long and hard before finding mine!
     
  8. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Mine (on 19s) routinely achieves rated range, and often better, in good conditions. So, summer, highway and driving 100-105 km/h. In the winter it drops for sure, but I don't find it bad until it gets below -15C. If you go above this speed, consumption increases significantly.

    Turn on the large consumption graph, and you'll get an idea pretty quickly what will push you above the rated consumption line.
     
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  9. SSedan

    SSedan Member

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    Even the road surface quality can affect actual consumption so that is hard to compare in different places.

    In cold weather I chased setting charging to happen right before I left for work and if the temp dropped 10f colder the longer battery warmup meant charging finished late and wasn't done or if it stayed warmer charging would complete early and the battery would be cold again, couldn't consistently nail it.
    I instead began to charge as soon as I got home, battery is warm from driving home from work so it needs little to no heating, and I begin warmup half an hour or so before I leave in the morning. This strategy has reduced the car's displayed energy usage and done a good job of having a warm battery for proper acceleration and regen on most of my drives. Part of the reason this reduced displayed energy use is it is warming the battery and cabin from the wall current rather than the battery so that isn't tracked.
    Afternoon battery warmup is not too bad, I will give it 10-15minutes, maybe more if it is really cold.

    I think not understanding temperature impact on battery is the biggest issue here, I do not feel it is adequately covered often, cold weather has a substantial impact.

    The first cold snap we had after I got my car I took the car in a trip and had nothing but a 120volt outlet at my destination and that was not working well saw voltage drop and gave up, the car topped 700wh the first few miles at 75mph in low single digits, I wont ever make that mistake again, I will warm it up before leaving. Once the battery warmed energy use came down to 330-350 or so I now expect for such a drive. Shorter the trips the bigger an impact the battery heating has, you will learn to manage it and what to expect as you spend more time enjoying your car.
     
  10. Asummers

    Asummers Member

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    This is all great information! I can’t wait for summer so I can see what this car can really do, it sounds like most of my issues are cold related. I’m running snow tires too, I don’t know if they lose more energy to friction than the pilots. I would think the 21” wheels would save energy over the 19, as there would be less heat lost in sidewall flexion, unless the weight is significantly less on the 19”
     
  11. Asummers

    Asummers Member

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    Interesting, so if I plug it in every night, the battery will not be warm in the morning? You’d think if it was plugged in they would keep it warm for max efficiency, or have an option to warm it up using wall power at a certain time every morning.
     
  12. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I’m not sure how someone can disagree with that. Unless you think I’m lying???
     
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  13. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    This is the Lane Departure Warning which is part of Autopilot.

    Your Wh/m sounds about normal for highway and local driving in the winter.

    My lifetime Wh/m is about 340-350.

    Congrats on getting the best Model S ever made!
     
  14. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    This is easily fixed at the SC. I think there's a TSB on it. Very common.
     
  15. SSedan

    SSedan Member

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    Snow tires are generally a soft rubber I would expect increased energy consumption with them. Higher speeds increase usage too because of aerodynamic drag which is also increased by cold dense air. Actual rated miles will only happen around I think 65mph and 70F so the HVAC isn't doing much.
    21" wheels can be heavier but they are also often a stickier performance tire which increased rolling resistance and the carcass and sidewall might be thicker to better protect the rim.

    The battery does not maintain temperature even when plugged in. It will warm up to charge or when you warm the interior before leaving BUT this takes a lot longer to warm than the interior and in my case with a 30amp outlet in cold weather the combination of the battery heater and interior heater can actually consume some battery miles, low single digits not a lot because the two heaters combined can consume more than the 24amps the car gets from a 30amp "dryer outlet". I try to give it half an hour depending on temp, if zero or below I will give it longer. Also understand it will only warm the battery enough to get about 30kw regen not all the way to 60.

    I should admit I only have a P85 not a D car but having bought it in August and now being March and living near Green Bay, I got a pretty quick lesson on how it all works in cold weather, if you just jump in and go like an ICE battery heating will chew up a lot of range. If your garage is better insulated you might have better results estimating scheduling charging to end just before you leave than I had. There are apps that will aim to have it end at a certain time and I may try that next winter once I have a bigger power supply for the car. I think the 30amp outlet being a little small for heating the battery is the source of my inconsistency on charge time in cold weather. It is plenty of power to charge the car, just hard to guess the time needed when heating is involved.
     
  16. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I have both 19s and 21s and contrary to what many have said that don't have BOTH, there is no difference in wh/mile consumption. I have driven many thousands of miles on both sets. That said, I have a square, not staggered 21s. The wider rears of the staggered 21s could certainly lower economy, but the square 21s and 19s are exactly the same width and the 21s are lower profile so they should actually have less rolling resistance if anything.

    My freeway consumption averages around 300 wh/mile. On sometimes it's less. Tuesday I got 289 wh / mile on the way to work on my 130 mile commute. Net elevation change was pretty much sea level.

    Before I upgraded to Ludicrous, I achieved 3.05 0/60 on the vbox WITH the 1 ft roll-out after the software update that improved performance from 3.2 to 3.1.

    3+ seconds 40 to 60 is not even in the ballpark of acceptable.

    Playing around with VBOX Sport.... 0-60 times...

    From this this run I did at 90%, 40-60 is 1.5 seconds.

    [​IMG]

    If you have an iOS device, download PowerTools, charge the car to 92%, start max battery and wait for it to say ready, then go measure max power at 90% during a 0-60 run. A normal new battery will pull about 415KW.
     
  17. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    ...almost forgot, for your high consumption per mile, your biggest culprit to rule out first is wheel alignment although to be as high as what you're seeing, even if in freezing weather, the alignment would have to be severely out. How does the tire wear look?
     
  18. SSedan

    SSedan Member

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    21-19 efficiency will be impacted by fire choice on each.
     
  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    True, and even tire choice will make a difference too.:p
     
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  20. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913

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    Another data point: I was doing around 335 Wh/mile over 28k miles on the original 19s but, am averaging only 373 Wh/mile over 1k miles on the 21” arachnids.

    Also, I had to have my steering rack replaced in the first year of ownership when it would vibrate significantly while on Autosteer. No issues since.
     

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