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New pothole relief bill would penalize EVs vs ICE on a per mile basis...

Discussion in 'California' started by sorka, Apr 1, 2017.

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  1. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Before they start raising transportation taxes, maybe the should stop diverting our VLF and existing gas taxes into other pools that aren't relate to transporation:

    Pothole relief? California deal includes tax hike, electric car fee

    But that said, the $100 flat fee per EV driven 12K miles would cost 0.83 cents per mile. Compare that to a Prius getting charged 12 cents per gallon works out to 0.24 cents per mile. Even a car getting only 25 MPG would only be paying 0.48 cents more per mile.
     
  2. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Member

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    The new proposal increases the current 18c gas tax to 30c (not 12c), so your calculations are incorrect.

    Still very unfair.
     
  3. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Link please? All the articles I found from yesterday all quote 12 cents. 30 cents wouldn't be outrageous at least. It would be slightly unfair at that point.

    I've googled any recent articles in the last few days that have 30 cents instead of 12. Not finding one.

    Although if you only drive your Leaf 5K miles / year, it's still very unfair.
     
  4. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    I find it actually very fair, everybody has gotta pay for their fair share of road repairs.

    Gas guzzlers are paying that at the pump, we will pay a flat rate.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    It would be more fair to pay by miles driven, not a flat rate. I could get behind a mileage based road tax.
     
  6. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    But it adds a bunch of bureaucracy to the equation which would cost taxpayers even more money in getting odometer readings etc

    I find it a fair compromise to charge $100 a year until a better system can tax charging infrastructure on a better "per kWh" type of basis. That's probably less than what a gas car would be paying at the pump on average per year with the 12-cent-per-gallon addon (at 12000 miles a year with a 25 mpg car that is 480 gallons * $0.12 which is $57.60 per year plus whatever people are already paying at the pump for road repair)
     
    • Like x 1
  7. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Even using your math evs are paying 47% more per miles. I have no problem with fair but I do have a problem with unfair.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    This is nonsense ... Another tax increase that will be spent on benefits for illegal immigrants and fat pensions for state employees.
    California highway maintenance has been deferred for years to fund over inflated pensions and wasteful practices of state employees. :cool:

    SACRAMENTO — Gov. Jerry Brown and top Democratic lawmakers on Wednesday announced a major deal aimed at repairing California’s crumbling roads and bridges by raising fuel taxes, hiking vehicle registration fees and for the first time charging electric car owners a yearly fee. The unveiling of the proposal to raise $5 billion annually through a 12-cent-per-gallon gas tax, a $100 annual fee on electric vehicles and other new taxes and fees follows years of debate over how to fund a transportation upgrade. The cost of backlogged repairs has ballooned to $59 billion for state highways and $78 billion for local roads, estimates Sen. Jim Beall — a San Jose Democrat who is carrying a road-repair bill
     
    • Like x 4
  9. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    The articles quote a .12 tax but should say it's an increase to the current .28 for a total of .40.
     
  10. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    As I've said before, we can thank the "pay your fair share" talking point for this kind of thing. Paying your fair share has never meant paying in proportion to what you use or the benefits you get from the system. It means paying based on your wealth, without regard to how much you get out of government. So a tax that targets a segment of the population that generally has higher than average wealth (EV owners, Tesla in particular) is exactly what they mean when they say people have to pay their fair share.

    To those who don't like that they are being asked to pay more, check your voter registration....
     
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    • Disagree x 1
  11. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Do you have a source for that?

    40 cents is just about what it would take to make it fair if driving 12K miles per year.
     
  12. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    It's written poorly (or sneaky) because only the headline says "hike", otherwise it's referenced as a .12 per gallon tax. Current tax is .28, plus the .12 proposal.

    Pothole relief? California deal includes tax hike, electric car fee
     
  13. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Then it's not a 40 cent increase if your talking about a pre existing gas tax which we already have.
     
  14. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    Correct, the only 'increase' I implied was the .12 which should be called an increase to the current rate of .28 in all these articles, rather than being presented as simply a .12 tax which is misleading. Net effective tax upon passage would be a total of .40 per gallon tax. Just noticed I linked the same article you had posted. LOL
     
  15. mblakele

    mblakele radial cross member

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    The problem with taxing gas or EV owners to pay for road damage is that the overwhelming amount of damage is done by heavy vehicles like freight trucks.

    The Hidden Trucking Industry Subsidy
     
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  16. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Won't kick in for EVs until at least 2020. Until then...plenty of other stuff to worry about.
     
  17. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    And the $175 transportation improvement registration fee will cost more than the $100 ZEV fee anyway......so plenty of time to start saving now. ;)
     
  18. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    So big rigs are bad, but using the fourth power calculation (actually I heard it's more like the third power) our Teslas do almost 10X as much road damage as Honda Civics.

    We may he helping to save the planet...but not the roadways :oops:
     
  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    The articles aren't misleading. The existing gas tax was existing when we all factored in total cost of ownership of ICE vs EV and that included existing cost of fuel.

    What you're saying is that EVs were already not paying their fair share since ICE users were already paying 28 cents / gallon and EVs were paying 0 cents because they don't buy gas.
     
  20. mblakele

    mblakele radial cross member

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    Maybe so. I'd be happier with a more rational tax system, even if I pay more. How about a gas and diesel tax to nudge drivers towards more efficient vehicles, plus a weight-based registration tax to help pay for road damage? I think the latter would have to be at the federal level with block grants to the states, at least for commercial freight. Otherwise it'd look like a tax on interstate commerce.

    Ideally the weight-based tax would also factor in mileage. I used to report that data to State Farm for insurance, and it wasn't too bad. But that might be impractical for our government for a while yet.
     

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