Except that is false. If it's grid-tied, it operates in parallel with the grid, and only software is keeping it from exporting. Such a system requires PTO.
Cheers, Wayne
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New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]
- Thread starter dailo
- Start date
Cheers, Wayne
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
This whole Powerwall export thing is getting weirder by the minute. It does look like the non + Powerwalls do not have the capability of Rule 21 Smart Features (ie out of bandwidth communications) that allows a utility to control what the inverter does. They seem to be designed solely for battery backup/time shift and not export. The Powerwall + does seem to support that (ie it would be required to since it is a solar inverter and must meet all of Rule 21).
But where this gets interesting is the question if a Powerwall can export its stored power. The answer may be No, if this posted document is the final one. It states Tesla fast tracked the Powerwall 2 approval not to be able to export stored power.
But where this gets interesting is the question if a Powerwall can export its stored power. The answer may be No, if this posted document is the final one. It states Tesla fast tracked the Powerwall 2 approval not to be able to export stored power.
Sorry it is called Advanced Options | Grid Charging and it is below the Time-Based Control on this screen in my App.
I am set to Self-Powered. Not sure if that matters.
am not seeing any advanced options under powerwall which is under settings?
Wow, my only concern with one powerwall was that I couldn't get it charged enough to last thru shoulder and peak rates in the winter. Now one powerwall is enough for my needs and no regret not getting more powerwalls anymore 
. Next we ought to be able to drain the powerwall during peak like VPP and that will accelerate the payback.
. Next we ought to be able to drain the powerwall during peak like VPP and that will accelerate the payback.Do u have PW+? If I read it correctly, someone said this option is available for those who have systems for over 5 yrs?
The support document says that the only export they are talking about enabling or disabling is export of real time solar production, not stored solar. This happens, they explain, when the battery is fully charged and unable to absorb the surplus solar production, so they throttle back the solar.
The utility's problem with us exporting stored energy is that it could have come from the grid. No utility wants us buying cheap off-peak power and then selling it back at peak times and prices. PG&E's huge battery in Moss Landing is going on line very soon to do that, and they really don't want the competition. ;-) One could imagine making money this way, but NEM voids your credit when your true-up says your credit is larger than you bills or when you are a net exporter for the year. They also limit export in a system with storage plus solar to the amount of energy your solar can produce, using a simulation based on number, size, azimuth and inclination of your panels.
I've had my Powerwalls for 4 years, on version 4.7.3 of the iOS app, 22.9.1 Powerwall version (original gateway). I have the grid charging option.
Sorry, I have mis-spoken. I'm now looking at my friend's supplier's site, and they say that technically their system is not "grid- tied" and so exempt from permitting and PTO requirements. In their FAQ's they explain that, by definition, a grid-tied system exports power. Theirs does not export, and therefore is not "grid-tied" and does not require PTO. It does in fact connect to the grid, working in parallel with the grid, as you put it, but current transformers on the grid feed allow their controller to limit inverter production to continuously match house consumption and hence not export. I do not mean to promote that system, only to point out that some folks claim that PTO can be circumvented.
What I was suggesting is that Tesla may have use cases in mind where non-export is advantageous. Given the per panel per month tax which draft NEM3 proposes, non-exporting systems might become attractive by avoiding imperial entanglements, as Han Solo once put it. ;-)
In any case, it appears that CPUC created a “notification-only” interconnection process" for non-exporting storage systems with and without solar.
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I have had solar since Dec of 2015, PTO in March of 2016. Powerwalls were not installed till Jan of 2020.
I think that, in Hawaii, unless you have an existing system that was already permitted to export, new installs cant export to the utility. Im not in Hawaii, but seem to remember reading that either here or somewhere.
My personal hope is, that If / When "nem 3.0" or whatever is passed, that we will be able to circumvent the punitive charges by not exporting at all in some manner or other (but thats a discussion for the other thread, really).
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I am good with that. But would like to export my solar at the best possible time financially. Right now I can only export it when I capture it.
But alas about the time I can take from the grid to fill my PWs and then have the solar only exported, I will be kicked off of EVA1 and onto something that I am sure will result in less than satisfactory give back.
Wayne,
If you are correct, then my friend and his supplier are in violation of those requirements. Can you point me to the regulation which specifies that grid parallel systems using CT's and software require PTO as you describe?
Interestingly, the PowerWall, under it's PTO's is prohibited from exporting it's stored energy to the gird, and it's CT's and software which accomplish this pass muster as non-exporting. It seems odd that a non-exporting solar system using similar technology (identical in the Tesla PW case we are discussing) would not qualify as non-exporting and non-regulated. But then everything about utility regulation is odd, I suppose.
Frankly, I was skeptical of my friend's system, and of the supplier's explanations. I told him and still think he would have been happier with a PowerWall in spite of the dramatically higher price. But the focus of this thread is understanding Tesla's reasoning for their new non-export option. With NEM3's threatened solar tax looming, and Tesla's position in the California solar market (which NEM3 is designed to kill), my friend's supplier's explanation of a non-export exemption from PTO and NEM sort of sprang to mind.
Thanks,
SW
That is not correct. I have the option and have had solar and Powerwalls for less than 2 years. Also, I have the older Powerwall 2s and separate gateway, not Powerwall+ with the integrated gateway.
Super cool option.
I enabled Grid charging last night. Reserve was set to 20%. Operational mode is set to time based control.
I unexpectedly woke up to a 100% charged powerwall .. must be a TOU optimization.
Still in super-off-peak until 2pm. After that I expect it to start supplying the home to then send all solar back to the grid. Peak is 4-9pm.
As others have said, all we need know is the ability to dump the PWs to the grid. I could then send back 60kw+ every day during peak rates.
$39.6/day
$14,454/year.
Ha!
I enabled Grid charging last night. Reserve was set to 20%. Operational mode is set to time based control.
I unexpectedly woke up to a 100% charged powerwall .. must be a TOU optimization.
Still in super-off-peak until 2pm. After that I expect it to start supplying the home to then send all solar back to the grid. Peak is 4-9pm.
As others have said, all we need know is the ability to dump the PWs to the grid. I could then send back 60kw+ every day during peak rates.
$39.6/day
$14,454/year.
Ha!
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