New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]

[wwhitney]

I assumed that was for installs that don't have an active PTO in place - not a flag for exporting from the Powerwall (outside of VPP events).

That's the "Permission to Export" setting, which is the first option shown under the Advanced Settings, both in the app and on the referenced web page. But I'm talking about the "Energy Exports" setting, which is the last option before the Advanced Settings.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

I have two Powerwalls and didn't take the ITC on them since they were SGIP. I'm considering adding a third Powerwall and take the ITC on it.

Since I don't have the control over which Powerwalls are charged from the grid it seems reasonable that as long as I didn't exceed 67% of the total storage capacity on an annual basis when charging from the grid that I am still compliant with the ITC requirements.

Comments?

I am not a Tax Expert is my comment. I am not even super knowledgeable in this area.

 

[wwhitney]

I have two Powerwalls and didn't take the ITC on them since they were SGIP. I'm considering adding a third Powerwall and take the ITC on it.

Since I don't have the control over which Powerwalls are charged from the grid it seems reasonable that as long as I didn't exceed 67% of the total storage capacity on an annual basis when charging from the grid that I am still compliant with the ITC requirements.

Comments?

Since you asked, how is a 3rd PW worth it? The incremental benefit from 2 to 3 is much less than 0 to 1 or 1 to 2. Exceeding 10 kW power capacity puts you in a different PG&E Interconnection type, not sure if that's a significant burden or not. And I imagine you'll have to go to a 3rd party installer, so pretty expensive.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[swedge]

my interconnection agreement does allow production time shifting

Wayne,

I've been focused on the new grid charging option, and my app does not show the export options, so I haven't paid much attention. But today the light you spoke about went on, so to speak.

Are you saying that we (pge nem PW and solar) are allowed to export our stored solar production whenever we choose to?

Because of some afternoon shading, almost all of my solar production happens during off peak. The export credit (NEM1) is currently $.24 per kWh. Peak would be $.43 now, and $.56 during summer when I export the most. So exporting that stored solar during peak would get me 70 to 133% more credit!

Holy flashbulb, Battery Man!

That would be hundreds more dollars credit per year for me.

Am I understanding your observations correctly?

I have always assumed that PW's would not discharge to the grid because of a regulatory requirement. Time shifting consumption was the main extra benefit in addition to having power when the grid is down. But time shifting solar export would be big, if allowed and enabled.

Scott

 

[h2ofun]

Wayne,

I've been focused on the new grid charging option, and my app does not show the export options, so I haven't paid much attention. But today the light you spoke about went on, so to speak.

Are you saying that we (pge nem PW and solar) are allowed to export our stored solar production whenever we choose to?

Because of some afternoon shading, almost all of my solar production happens during off peak. The export credit (NEM1) is currently $.24 per kWh. Peak would be $.43 now, and $.56 during summer when I export the most. So exporting that stored solar during peak would get me 70 to 133% more credit!

Holy flashbulb, Battery Man!

That would be hundreds more dollars credit per year for me.

Am I understanding your observations correctly?

I have always assumed that PW's would not discharge to the grid because of a regulatory requirement. Time shifting consumption was the main extra benefit in addition to having power when the grid is down. But time shifting solar export would be big, if allowed and enabled.

Scott

The first question to ask is what is the max export per month PGE has approved you for. You cannot go over this and get any credit.

So glad I do not need to worry about any of this stuff

 

[swedge]

The first question to ask is what is the max export per month PGE has approved you for. You cannot go over this and get any credit.

I believe the monthly export limit is shown on my black&white bill, and it is the calculated maximum solar production that my system can produce, based on number, power rating and orientation of the panels. So as long as my total export does not exceed my production, credit should be given for all of it. I hope...

I've just re-read the NEM (1) tariff, and am not finding anything saying I can not grid charge or that I can not export stored solar kW. I thought there was a prohibition on exporting grid charged energy, but that too may only be limited by their estimated maximum possible solar production limit. But the tariff is written in a peculiar dialect of English designed to obfuscate rather than illuminate, I gather. So I probably missed something.

SW

 

[Gwgan]

Found this fairly clear explanation of ITC clawback which might apply to a homeowner who got the tax incentive but then turned on battery export during the 5 year vesting period.

Should New Solar Investors Worry About Tax Credit Recapture? Not So Much.

New sponsors/investors often ask whether a solar investment tax credit (“ITC”) can be clawed back. This is important because these investors are often asked to backstop the ITC. The short answer is that the “unvested” portion of the credit can be clawed back where the project is sold or turned...

www.renewableenergyworld.com

 

[h2ofun]

I believe the monthly export limit is shown on my black&white bill, and it is the calculated maximum solar production that my system can produce, based on number, power rating and orientation of the panels. So as long as my total export does not exceed my production, credit should be given for all of it. I hope...

I've just re-read the NEM (1) tariff, and am not finding anything saying I can not grid charge or that I can not export stored solar kW. I thought there was a prohibition on exporting grid charged energy, but that too may only be limited by their estimated maximum possible solar production limit. But the tariff is written in a peculiar dialect of English designed to obfuscate rather than illuminate, I gather. So I probably missed something.

SW

Yep, you are right! I went over one time and lost 1100kwh of credit, so I know first hand they do monthly. (I now have all my panels counted so I have no more issues. Will see how big coming up, was like 3400kwh for april, which is nuts)

For me, the issue is not what the tariff says, its just no going over the limit

 

[wwhitney]

Are you saying that we (pge nem PW and solar) are allowed to export our stored solar production whenever we choose to?

Yes under NEM-PS and the appropriate Interconnection Agreement, and per the CPUC. The NEM-PS FAQ referred to early supports this understanding as well.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Yep, you are right! I went over one time and lost 1100kwh of credit, so I know first hand they do monthly.

Were you operating your expanded system prior to expanded PTO? Then that was the Interconnection Agreement and billing system working as designed.

Or was PG&E just slow to update their billing system, and you had full PTO? That would be an error on their part, and should have been reversed by them.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[dailo]

Only thing I saw in my interconnect agreement was this, which as @wwhitney mentioned means as long as charging from Grid is not enabled this would be fine. Maybe Tesla will later will remove Grid Charge if you choose to enable the Export feature.

By signing below, customer confirms that Energy Storage over 10 kW has received UL 1741 CRD for Power Control Systems (PCS) certification that will comply with either No Grid Charge or No Storage Export as defined in Schedule NEM2.

 

[h2ofun]

Were you operating your expanded system prior to expanded PTO? Then that was the Interconnection Agreement and billing system working as designed.

Or was PG&E just slow to update their billing system, and you had full PTO? That would be an error on their part, and should have been reversed by them.

Cheers, Wayne

Both. This time I may have had PTO, and or slow, so no big deal.

BUT, they never gave me another True up. I keep calling and asking for months. Then the last time I got a supervisor on and he agreed the size
of my PTO's vs the max generation allowed looked like they never got around to updating. A few weeks after that case was opened,
my max output doubled. I got the idea from this group to ask.

 

[RKCRLR]

Since you asked, how is a 3rd PW worth it? The incremental benefit from 2 to 3 is much less than 0 to 1 or 1 to 2. Exceeding 10 kW power capacity puts you in a different PG&E Interconnection type, not sure if that's a significant burden or not. And I imagine you'll have to go to a 3rd party installer, so pretty expensive.

Cheers, Wayne

That is a very good question. I'll try to explain in an abbreviated answer as possible but it will probably just raise more questions.

My whole home backup was supposed to include AC backup. However, the soft start device (SureStart) isn't compatible with my heat pump compressor. I've chronicled my problems in another post but the net result is that Tesla offered me a 3rd Powerwall for half price and no installation charge (~$4400 total) so my compressor could start and I agreed.

In the mean time (it's coming up on a year since my 2 Powerwalls have been installed) my compressor has started to fail (no output in low stage). When the SureStart was installed there were immediate problems. My system is tied into the internet for monitoring and I had nearly 100 warning emails of problems from the system in one day and it wasn't working properly. I happened to be outside investigating when there was a loud bang (scared the sh*t out of me) and the system shut down. I've had 2 HVAC companies tell me verbally that my compressor problems are probably due the SureStart being installed. However, they won't put it in writing (no upside for them) that it caused the failure and my system is 13 years old and a know problem compressor so the problems could be blamed on age. So it would be hard to prove that that was the root cause the of problem.

So now I'm looking at heat pump replacement options and will likely go with an inverter system which means 2 Powerwalls would be adequate for running the AC. I've put the 3rd Powerwall installation on hold until I figure out what I'm going to do. I'm a net producer so it doesn't really get me much now. However, who knows what is going to happen with NEM 3 and the rates so there may be an advantage in the future. And I have frequent winter outages and long PSPS shutdowns so it may be worth the increased backup. So paying ~$3300 (after ITC) may be worth it.

 

[no2gates]

I just talked to Telsa. They told me that since my system was recorded as being installed by sunrun, and sunrun does not have an agreement with
PGE to enable this, for reason unknown, I have to talk to them. But since my setup was installed by V3 electric, I just left them a message.

Anyone else have their batteries installed by "sunrun" and have the grid charge feature enabled?

Mine was installed by Sunpro, not Sunrun and my grid charge is enabled now.

 

[aesculus]

Only thing I saw in my interconnect agreement was this, which as @wwhitney mentioned means as long as charging from Grid is not enabled this would be fine. Maybe Tesla will later will remove Grid Charge if you choose to enable the Export feature.

Can you tell me the form number of your Interconnection Agreement. Mine is only for the PWs since my solar was installed prior (and after). Mine is Form 79-1193-02 from 2018.

Same for when I added more solar in 2020, which was for 2 formally installed solar systems and the powerwalls and adding additional solar.

Nothing about import or export of power. Just how the payment of NEM-2 charges will occur. And interesting it has me as a net producer of a whopping -57 kWh because nobody really cared and it was under the threshold.

 

[tfan2018]

It looks as shown on the Tesla website link in the OP, and it appears under Settings - Powerwall, just before the "Advanced Options" section.

Cheers, Wayne

Weird but I do not see that option

 

[dailo]

Can you tell me the form number of your Interconnection Agreement. Mine is only for the PWs since my solar was installed prior (and after). Mine is Form 79-1193-02 from 2018.

Same for when I added more solar in 2020, which was for 2 formally installed solar systems and the powerwalls and adding additional solar.

Nothing about import or export of power. Just how the payment of NEM-2 charges will occur. And interesting it has me as a net producer of a whopping -57 kWh because nobody really cared and it was under the threshold.

Form 79-1193-02 Advice 4350-G-A/6050-E-A March 2021

 

[wwhitney]

Weird but I do not see that option

See post #90 New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggle for charging from the grid that is not stormwatch mode!]

Would be interested to hear if anyone has the option enabled without calling in. Or if anyone else succeeds in calling to get it turned on.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[aesculus]

Form 79-1193-02 Advice 4350-G-A/6050-E-A March 2021

Interesting. Back in 2020 Tesla used a 2018 version for my PWs and in 2021 they used a 2017 version for a Tesla Solar Roof add on but without the mention of my ESS. Nothing in either of them that talked about exporting to the grid.

 

[dailo]

See post #90 New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggle for charging from the grid that is not stormwatch mode!]

Would be interested to hear if anyone has the option enabled without calling in. Or if anyone else succeeds in calling to get it turned on.

Cheers, Wayne

You must have hit the Tesla support jackpot. Every support person I have chatted with just pastes the same response, "App developers are still pushing out all the features, please wait 3-4 weeks".