New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]

jhn_ · Apr 28, 2022

getakey said:
I have 3 PWs and NGOM
When I first saw this thread, I checked my app and I saw the grid charge option. Pretty sure I also saw Export to Grid option. However, now export is not there. I should have taken a screen shot

Same here. And I’m not even in CA.

holeydonut · Apr 28, 2022

getakey said:
I have 3 PWs and NGOM
When I first saw this thread, I checked my app and I saw the grid charge option. Pretty sure I also saw Export to Grid option. However, now export is not there. I should have taken a screen shot

You have a NGOM? Isn't that like $2,000 + monthly fixed cost fee?

BTW apparently a smarter (or is it dumber?) version of me answered my own question about NEM2-MT and NGOM last year. Do you know how stupid it is to search on Google for something, and the first search result back is something you wrote on TMC? Like wtf...

PG&E Customers with 3 or more PWs: Interconnection NEM2, NEM2-MT, or NEM2-PS

PG&E just hit me with a curveball... they won't grant me PTO unless I agree to their NEM2 MT (Multiple Tariff) under Rule 21 instead of the standard NEM2 or NEM2-PS (Paired Storage). Rule 21 + MT seems to be next-level BS intended for people with solar farms and a potentially large export from...

teslamotorsclub.com

Deep in the bowels of Rule 21 is a bunch of absolute malarkey about NGOMs and using the production estimates (like what they do on the NEM2-PS black and white bill to ensure you're note exporting more than you could have produced.)

Rule 21 does add that 250 KW and 1MW facilities may not be eligible for the estimated production approach.

PS. I'm still paying to have PG&E as a named insured on my homeowners policy! State Farm says I'm the first and only residential homeowner to do this across their entire population of covered homes in California. Yay.

getakey · Apr 28, 2022

holeydonut said:
You have a NGOM? Isn't that like $2,000 + monthly fixed cost fee?

BTW apparently a smarter (or is it dumber?) version of me answered my own question about NEM2-MT and NGOM last year. Do you know how stupid it is to search on Google for something, and the first search result back is something you wrote on TMC? Like wtf...

PG&E Customers with 3 or more PWs: Interconnection NEM2, NEM2-MT, or NEM2-PS

PG&E just hit me with a curveball... they won't grant me PTO unless I agree to their NEM2 MT (Multiple Tariff) under Rule 21 instead of the standard NEM2 or NEM2-PS (Paired Storage). Rule 21 + MT seems to be next-level BS intended for people with solar farms and a potentially large export from...

teslamotorsclub.com

Deep in the bowels of Rule 21 is a bunch of absolute malarkey about NGOMs and using the production estimates (like what they do on the NEM2-PS black and white bill)

Rule 21 does add that 250 KW and 1MW facilities may not be eligible for the estimated production approach.

View attachment 798474

I don't pay anything for the NGOM. I was told it was a requirement with 3PWs. PG&E installed the meter at no cost to me

holeydonut · Apr 28, 2022

getakey said:
I don't pay anything for the NGOM. I was told it was a requirement with 3PWs. PG&E installed the meter at no cost to me

Oooooo you lucky SOB. When PG&E was about to force an NGOM on my system back in ~~2020~~ edit: 2021, they were going to charge a fee and charge per month for the meter.

cwied · Apr 28, 2022

swedge said:
Between the typos, bad grammar, strange punctuation and the introductory conclusion contrary to NEM requirements, I think this is rather faulty. But it may help explain some of the confusion we are seeing among support folks. I think the NGOM requirement for large systems (i.e. >10kW) in NEM may have confused whoever wrote this material.

I'm almost certain that there's a typo in that. If the first sentence were "At this time only Systems with < 3 Powerwall units to qualify to export Everything to the grid," everything would make sense. It's notable that the first bullet point says "< 3 PW units". The rest of the bullets seem to be a justification for why larger systems wouldn't get the option.

MJ_CA_2019 · Apr 28, 2022

holeydonut said:
Could be, except you should know I originally wanted 2 Powerwalls and PG&E denied me a partial home backup. They said a partial backup was unsafe. I had to add the 3rd Powerwall to do a whole home backup, or I’d have zero Powerwalls.

The screenshot of my interconnection agreement is my NEM2-MT agreement, which is intended for >10KW ESS systems. It seems to plainly allow export that includes all the batteries.

I have 3 PW, very similar NEM2-MT agreement (allowed export box is checked) and have the option in the Tesla app.

holeydonut · Apr 28, 2022

MJ_CA_2019 said:
I have 3 PW, very similar NEM2-MT agreement (allowed export box is checked) and have the option in the Tesla app.

Which is the "allowed export box"? Is it the checkbox in section 2.8? Or sections 2.10?

dailo · Apr 28, 2022

I finally found someone willing to help me. I just asked to turn the feature on my account, went to go "check if its availabie in your area" for about 20 minutes. Asked who my utility was and it was enabled. I am guessing they are probably still rolling out communication to the support teams, but another example why dealing with Tesla can be so frustrating. Maybe this will eventually get rolled out to all PGE NEMPS customers, but who knows.

swedge · Apr 28, 2022

At this time only Systems with 3 Powerwall units to qualify to Export everything to the grid •
< 3 PW units
•Systems with more than 10kW power require NGOM, removes the savings.
•Systems that get exception for NGOM are not allowed to export to grid
•Utilities allow exporting in NEM agreements
•PG&E, SCE, SDG&E

cwied said:
I'm almost certain that there's a typo in that. If the first sentence were "At this time only Systems with < 3 Powerwall units to qualify to export Everything to the grid," everything would make sense. It's notable that the first bullet point says "< 3 PW units". The rest of the bullets seem to be a justification for why larger systems wouldn't get the option.

Thanks, I think you may have cracked it, or at least part of it! The "<3" may have been intended as a correction to where the line above said "... only Systems with 3 Powerwall units" qualify.... As you suggested, "only Systems with fewer than 3 PowwerWall units qualify..." does make more sense. The two "to"s is probably just yet another typo.

I have only one PW, so I think I should be allowed the option.

Systems with 3 PowerWalls have more than 10kW capability, and so are treated a bit differently under NEM. As I read it, these larger systems require either "interval metering" or non-export, so a system with metering should be OK. In the third line it is not clear what is meant by "removes the savings". Perhaps it meant to say "may reduce the savings". Who knows.

SW

cwied · Apr 28, 2022

swedge said:
Systems with 3 PowerWalls have more than 10kW capability, and so are treated a bit differently under NEM. As I read it, these larger systems require either "interval metering" or non-export, so a system with metering should be OK. In the third line it is not clear what is meant by "removes the savings". Perhaps it meant to say "may reduce the savings". Who knows.

SW

Presumably if the NGOM doesn't measure the Powerwall discharge, there would be no credit for the discharging. I'm not sure where the NGOM is usually placed, but I understood it to measure (just) the output of the solar inverters.

holeydonut · Apr 28, 2022

@Vines … QQ, are you on NEM2-MT with EV2A?

I’m sure you’ll end up with the cool new features to charge and export before me lolol

dailo · Apr 28, 2022

cwied said:

I also have two Powerwalls, and the number my system picked seems to be 7.4 kW. I believe this may be an installer setting. I note that the API lists this as the "min_site_meter_power_ac" value for my system:

Rich (BB code):

{
  "id": "",
  "site_name": "",
  "backup_reserve_percent": 45,
  "default_real_mode": "autonomous",
  "installation_date": "2018-02-16T13:11:48-08:00",
  "user_settings": {
    "storm_mode_enabled": false,
    "sync_grid_alert_enabled": true,
    "breaker_alert_enabled": false
  },
  "components": {
    "solar": true,
    "battery": true,
    "grid": true,
    "backup": true,
    "gateway": "hec",
    "load_meter": true,
    "tou_capable": true,
    "storm_mode_capable": true,
    "flex_energy_request_capable": false,
    "car_charging_data_supported": false,
    "off_grid_vehicle_charging_reserve_supported": true,
    "vehicle_charging_performance_view_enabled": false,
    "vehicle_charging_solar_offset_view_enabled": false,
    "battery_solar_offset_view_enabled": true,
    "solar_value_enabled": true,
    "energy_value_header": "Energy Value",
    "energy_value_subheader": "Estimated Value",
    "energy_service_self_scheduling_enabled": true,
    "set_islanding_mode_enabled": true,
    "wifi_commissioning_enabled": true,
    "backup_time_remaining_enabled": true,
    "battery_type": "ac_powerwall",
    "configurable": true,
    "grid_services_enabled": false,
    "disallow_charge_from_grid_with_solar_installed": true,
    "net_meter_mode": "battery_ok",
    "edit_setting_permission_to_export": true,
    "edit_setting_grid_charging": true,
    "edit_setting_energy_exports": true
  },
  "version": "22.9.1 bce98cad",
  "battery_count": 2,
  "tou_settings": {
    "optimization_strategy": "economics",
    "schedule": [
      {
        "target": "off_peak",
        "week_days": [
          1,
          0
        ],
        "start_seconds": 0,
        "end_seconds": 54000
      },
      {
        "target": "peak",
        "week_days": [
          1,
          0
        ],
        "start_seconds": 57600,
        "end_seconds": 75600
      }
    ]
  },
  "tariff_id": "PCE-EV2-A",
  "nameplate_power": 10000,
  "nameplate_energy": 27000,
  "installation_time_zone": "America/Los_Angeles",
  "off_grid_vehicle_charging_reserve_percent": 90,
  "max_site_meter_power_ac": 999999999,
  "min_site_meter_power_ac": -7.4
}

Based on this it looks like there may be some feature with vehicle charging coming out, maybe an automated way to use excess solar to charge.

dailo · Apr 28, 2022

The export everything is sending more to the grid than I expected. Seems like it will always try to send 14kW on my system and as solar drops the PW discharges more to keep it the same. Going to hit my reserve way before peak ends. Also now with this option it no longer discharges during partial peak, regardless of what option is selected. Not sure if I’ll end up gaining much if I end up pulling from grid during part of peak and partial peak anyways. Would be nice if there was a separate reserve for this option.

h2ofun · Apr 28, 2022

getakey said:
I don't pay anything for the NGOM. I was told it was a requirement with 3PWs. PG&E installed the meter at no cost to me

I do not have one

MJ_CA_2019 · Apr 28, 2022

h2ofun said:
I do not have one

I also don't have a separate NGOM. I stalled a bit when my installer said it would be needed and then Tesla got approval on some piece of the hardware (I think the gateway) that PG&E accepted instead. My export credits allowed are limited to the estimated production of my PV.

tfan2018 · Apr 28, 2022

dailo said:
The export everything is sending more to the grid than I expected. Seems like it will always try to send 14kW on my system and as solar drops the PW discharges more to keep it the same. Going to hit my reserve way before peak ends. Also now with this option it no longer discharges during partial peak, regardless of what option is selected. Not sure if I’ll end up gaining much if I end up pulling from grid during part of peak and partial peak anyways. Would be nice if there was a separate reserve for this option.

do you have a screenshot of the option for export everything? I have PG&E but I do not see that option to export from pw during peak.

dailo · Apr 29, 2022

tfan2018 said:
do you have a screenshot of the option for export everything? I have PG&E but I do not see that option to export from pw during peak.

I had to chat with Tesla support and ask them to enable it. You can see screenshot of all the options in the support link from the first post.

Vines · Apr 29, 2022

holeydonut said:
@Vines … QQ, are you on NEM2-MT with EV2A?

I’m sure you’ll end up with the cool new features to charge and export before me lolol

Yes, NEM-MT with EV2.

As to the NGOM, early installs of 3 or more needed them. About a year after they dropped, then PGE started making noise that they weren't needed. Now systems installed with less than 10 units per gateway do not need one.

However, I do not think you can go back in time and change this, but with the way PGE works, who knows.

The value of exporting everything isn't huge in most cases, unless you were also grid charging. I'll not be pursuing it in the near future.

holeydonut · Apr 29, 2022

jjrandorin said:
If you remember @holeydonut 's install saga, along with all the hoops he jumped through, calls to PGE and all the "sunrun has never seen this", you would not be surprised that something specific to his install was singled out.

It always appeared to me during that process that, somehow, @holeydonut had "poked the wrong bear" somewhere in PGE, and they basically threw every single regulation that could impede him at him.

@holeydonut , I am not making fun of you, nor trying to say anything other than, given what you went through during your install, I dont find PGE impeding "you, specifically for some reason" something that couldnt happen. Its my guess that someone in PGE specifically made it happen.

Lol yeah I know you're not making fun of me. I know when I'm being made fun of (like in that panel gap thread, even though my car had parts that were kissing).

Anyway, I have had like 10 "firsts" already on my PV+ESS install. For example, I'm the first person SGIP has had where a homeowner joined their webinar to seek help. And I'm the first homeowner that bypassed normal channels to get a PG&E QEW out to my house to verify their own line diagram was wrong about the service entry size between the street and my house. But now I have another first.

Through my clever means, I got in touch with someone at PG&E about my NEM2-MT PTO and this new Tesla Feature. You can imagine folks surprise when a random customer somehow gets through the dense fog of PG&E's "customer support" tools to actually reach these folks haha. Their response:

"Thank you for reaching out. I have never experienced this request post PTO so this will take time to investigate. I have begun fielding out this request on your behalf so I’ll let you know as soon as I receive feedback."

First!

h2ofun · Apr 29, 2022

holeydonut said:
Lol yeah I know you're not making fun of me. I know when I'm being made fun of (like in that panel gap thread, even though my car had parts that were kissing).

Anyway, I have had like 10 "firsts" already on my PV+ESS install. For example, I'm the first person SGIP has had where a homeowner joined their webinar to seek help. And I'm the first homeowner that bypassed normal channels to get a PG&E QEW out to my house to verify their own line diagram was wrong about the service entry size between the street and my house. But now I have another first.

Through my clever means, I got in touch with someone at PG&E about my NEM2-MT PTO and this new Tesla Feature. You can imagine folks surprise when a random customer somehow gets through the dense fog of PG&E's "customer support" tools to actually reach these folks haha. Their response:

"Thank you for reaching out. I have never experienced this request post PTO so this will take time to investigate. I have begun fielding out this request on your behalf so I’ll let you know as soon as I receive feedback."

First!

So, tesla says your account is flagged to not enable I am on phone now with tesla, again, trying to get enabled. Might have luck this time.

New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]

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