There is a monthly minimum charge. You pay that every month. The NBCs go onto the Annual bill
I have no idea what I actually paid on this true up
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New Powerwall Advanced Options [Toggles for charging from and discharging to grid from powerwalls]
- Thread starter dailo
- Start date
There is a monthly minimum charge. You pay that every month. The NBCs go onto the Annual bill
I have no idea what I actually paid on this true up
Specific to the part I bolded, the $0.03/kWh for NBC only affects the amount of kWh imported that is equal or less than the kWh that exported during the annual NEM cycle.
If you are an annual-NEM-net-importer, then you're only paying the $0.03 per kWh on part of your imports. The extra you would need to import during the annual NEM period has no NBC since you just simply pay the retail rate for that portion. That's why I think it's conceptually easier to just deduct the $0.03 kWh from the value of the export. This is the real value of exporting solar if a home is an annual NEM-net-importer.
And, for those that are annual NEM-net-exporters, the tweaked export value per kWh doesn't matter. The export value would be wrong anyway. Their net export kWh is the wholesale rate* for any excess kWh, and nobody is going into their Tesla app to further dilute the value of their exports as they approach true-up.
* Edit: except for those SOBs on some fancy CCA agreement.
I'm the same as you... my "blue header bill" that came out along side my black and white bill doesn't have the NBC charge (it only has the monthly minimum charge).
I was expecting the cumulative annual NBC value from the black and white bill to be a line item to be paid on the blue header bill. My true-up period ended March 10, and I've received 2 subsequent PG&E bills; and none of them have the NBC true up.
Just avoid the Leaf and Bolt; they're going to further reinforce your notion that EVs are small.
Go find a Model S or X. Or have @jboy210 show up in his soon-to-be-delivered F150 Lightning.
I think I know what they did now.
My NBCs totaled $191.87. My minimum monthly charges already billed and paid were $121.54
so 191.87 minus 121.54 = 70.33. Then they add current month minimum charges of 9.86 and .15 tax to get $80.34
So the minimum charges offset some of the NBCs depending on your cumulative NBCs
Just too much money for a car to take me from point a to point b. There is a reason I was able to retire at 52.
I don't follow you. Here are some examples of an annual true-up, let me know if one of them is wrong. Just one rate, no monthly minimum, and small numbers for simplicity. $0.33/kWh of which $0.03/kWh is NBC. $0.04/kWh if you have a net energy credit and are a net exporter (with only one rate, those conditions are the same).
(1) Import 100 kWhs = $33 bill
(2) Import 100 kWhs, export 50 kWhs = $33 - $15 = $18 bill
(3) Import 100 kWhs, export 100 kWhs = $33 - $30 = $3 bill
(4) Import 100 kWhs, export 150 kWhs = $33 - $30 + $2 = $1 bill.
Cheers, Wayne
My understanding goes like this (assuming we're talking about an annual NBC calc and also assuming no TOU rates)... I'm also going to list your stuff a bit out of order to make more sense to me.
(3) Import 100 kWhs over the full year, export 100 kWhs over the full year =
$33.00 - $30.00 = $3.00 bill.
(2) Import 100 kWhs over the full year, export 50 kWhs over the full year =
$15.00 imports incremental of NEM + $16.50 NEM imports - $15.00 NEM exports = $16.50 bill
(1) Import 100 kWhs as a non-solar customer = $30.00 bill (no NBC and no annual whatevers)
(4) Import 100 kWhs over the full year, export 150 kWhs over the full year =
$33.00 imports - $30.00 NEM eligible exports - $2.00 wholesale-sad-face = $1.00 bill
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I don't think NBCs are additional charges that only NEM2 customers pay. I think that some subset of the cost breakdown that everyone pays are categories that are designated NBC, and so NEM2 customers don't get credit for those. So the above would be $33 whether NEM2 or non-NEM, since in my example the basic cost per kWh was $0.33.
If that's correct, it would also change your (2) to match my (2) and we would be in agreement.
Cheers, Wayne
Oh so you think the NBC is just a part of the variable rate people pay regardless... I see what you're saying now. I assumed that non-NEM imported energy was just at the regular ol' retail rate (your $0.30 per kWh).
That's a mini-buzz-kill for those who can't put in mondo solar arrays. I'm still waiting for the TED Talk from @Redhill_qik and @miimura.
I have the Virtual Power Plant Settings and I have set to "on" for as long as it some version of it has been available. I don't have anything on the main screen and I've never received any events.
Anyone in with NEM-MT in PG&E near Cupertino experience anything different?
I am 6'5" and about 300 lbs. I fit in my model 3 just fine, though the seat pan is a bit more narrow than mine.
I believe there are actually two different VPP programs in this area. Those that have the card are the ones who made it into the PG&E pilot. The Tesla VPP as far as I know hasn't been active yet. I tried to make into the PG&E pilot, but because the Powerwalls are in my name and the PG&E account is in my wife's name they apparently couldn't make it work. The only setting I have is the original Tesla VPP setting and I haven't had any events either.
And boom I post and a few hours later I see it appear in my Tesla app on a tablet and after upgrading my phone app I see it there as well.
Now let us see if I get any events.
I was curious how much NBC really is, so the other day I drilled down a bit....
The PG&E rates we usually think about and pay for our imports are the "bundled" rates, and include a dozen components, the large ones of which are Generation and Distribution. These are mostly just accounting classifications of PG%E revenue. But NEM2 specifies that three of these are not included in the credit when we export. Specifically, these are the Public Purpose Programs, Nuclear Decommissioning, DWR Bond Charge and Competition Transition Charge. (The DWR charge is also called the Wildfire Fund.) In the EV2-A rate effective 3/1/2022, these total $ 0.02449 per kWh, and are the same in all TOU periods and seasons.
So these are included in the normal rates, but are not credited for exports under NEM2. I think of it as a tax on exports. In effect our sell price is 2.449 cents less that our buy price. Relative to the $0.2448 off peak price, this is a 10% tax. Not huge, but not trivial.
I figure that PG&E strives to make things complicated so that customers, regulators and legislators can not make rational decisions. NEM3 will now doubt add even more layers of obfuscation, if we don't stop it, though that is a thought for a different thread.
SW
RKCRLR
Active Member
I think of it as a tax on re-importing the energy you already have been credited for. You don't pay NBCs on exported energy that you don't re-import. And you don't pay NBCs on energy you use once you have exhausted your credit.