New rear tires after 4k miles

[tech_nerd]

Finally got my M3 in after a 2.5 week wait for an issue I was having with excessive tire squealing, poor rain performance and a bit of floatiness staying in a lane. The rear tires were gone, 0/16 on the inside, 3/16 on the outside. They did an alignment, replaced the 2 tires and told me I owe $1000. I argued with them for a bit, and basically they're saying that if it were just a bad alignment, the outside tread would be higher, so something else happened, insinuating that I did something to cause it. I had it in 2 months ago to get a wheel replaced that was scuffed on delivery, and they noted the rear tires at 7/16. I told him nothing has happened to it, I don't do burnouts, what could've caused it, and he couldn't tell me. If it's not normal for a bad alignment to have the outer tread at 3/16, then what caused that? And will it happen again?

I'm venting a bit, but does anyone have any suggestions, do I have any recourse? I bought it 6/15/21 with 1000 miles, I've had it 3 months and it currently has 3950 miles. I'm feeling pretty soured on Tesla after this, if this is how they treat customers, not sure I want to continue to deal with them.

 

[tangible1]

Finally got my M3 in after a 2.5 week wait for an issue I was having with excessive tire squealing, poor rain performance and a bit of floatiness staying in a lane. The rear tires were gone, 0/16 on the inside, 3/16 on the outside. They did an alignment, replaced the 2 tires and told me I owe $1000. I argued with them for a bit, and basically they're saying that if it were just a bad alignment, the outside tread would be higher, so something else happened, insinuating that I did something to cause it. I had it in 2 months ago to get a wheel replaced that was scuffed on delivery, and they noted the rear tires at 7/16. I told him nothing has happened to it, I don't do burnouts, what could've caused it, and he couldn't tell me. If it's not normal for a bad alignment to have the outer tread at 3/16, then what caused that? And will it happen again?

I'm venting a bit, but does anyone have any suggestions, do I have any recourse? I bought it 6/15/21 with 1000 miles, I've had it 3 months and it currently has 3950 miles. I'm feeling pretty soured on Tesla after this, if this is how they treat customers, not sure I want to continue to deal with them.

that's the result of a WHOLE LOT of negative camber. Lower link arm loose or set wrong.
Is it like that on both sides? Your vehicle must have been really pushing at the front, ie not responding very well to turn-steering input. The back end dominating.
Or you've been turning doughnuts all day and night ;-)

 

[gearchruncher]

I was having with excessive tire squealing, poor rain performance and a bit of floatiness staying in a lane. The rear tires were gone, 0/16 on the inside, 3/16 on the outside. They did an alignment, replaced the 2 tires and told me I owe $1000. I argued with them for a bit, and basically they're saying that if it were just a bad alignment, the outside tread would be higher, so something else happened, insinuating that I did something to cause it.

Did they give you a before/after on the alignment? It should be clear what was wrong if you have the before. If they didn't give you a before, something is kind of fishy, all alignment places do that.

that's the result of a WHOLE LOT of negative camber. Lower link arm loose or set wrong.

None of the arms on a Tesla are adjustable. Rear camber can change maybe 0.2 degrees due to bolt alignment. A lot of racers would kill for a lot of camber, but you just can't get it.

But this isn't camber. This is toe out. Camber won't kill your tires like this in 4K miles, and extreme camber will wear a narrow strip of the tires. Also, camber doesn't cause squealing or floatiness. Toe out does.

And guess what? Toe is adjustable, while camber isn't. So unless they replaced parts, this either isn't fixed, or it's toe.

The issue is, how do you prove it was like this from the factory, not due to someone messing with it or hitting something? If you have the before report, I bet it shows both sides are toed out, and then you can show it couldn't be damage to one side. If it was only on one side, you would have been crabbing down the road with a non-straight steering wheel.

 

[tech_nerd]

Did they give you a before/after on the alignment? It should be clear what was wrong if you have the before. If they didn't give you a before, something is kind of fishy, all alignment places do that.

He called me at 5:30 and had 1 foot out the door, but said he'd send it to me tomorrow. I opted to not pay them and pick it up today, I will be calling back tomorrow to discuss further.

 

[afadeev]

Finally got my M3 in after a 2.5 week wait for an issue I was having with excessive tire squealing, poor rain performance and a bit of floatiness staying in a lane. The rear tires were gone, 0/16 on the inside, 3/16 on the outside. They did an alignment, replaced the 2 tires and told me I owe $1000. I argued with them for a bit, and basically they're saying that if it were just a bad alignment, the outside tread would be higher, so something else happened, insinuating that I did something to cause it.

Did you notice that the tires were bold, or did the service center bring it to your attention?
Did the service center call you to pre-authorize all this work? Did you agree?
If not, demand to put your original tires back on, and $0.00 final bill. Then tell the car to a reputable tires shop.
If yes, your only recourse is to argue about the root cause of the misalignment, and who is responsible for it. This will be an uphill battle.

One funny thing is going on - if it was just regular rear tire wear, why did Tesla Service Center (SC) volunteer to do an alignment? What were the before/after recorded settings?
You don't automatically perform an alignment when replacing tires. Not unless there is something else going on!

If they thought alignment was off, then they all but concede that it was goofed up from the factory.
You could have effected alignment by going off-road or bouncing rear wheels off curbs, but the damage to the wheels or suspension components would be the clear witness of the root cause. If there is no damage to either wheels or suspension, tell them to shove their insinuations where the sun doesn't shine.

I had it in 2 months ago to get a wheel replaced that was scuffed on delivery, and they noted the rear tires at 7/16. I told him nothing has happened to it

Do you have pictures of the wheel damage as delivered?
If delivery driver had bounced the rear wheel off a curb (causing deep scratches), it would have effected rear alignment and caused accelerated rear tier wear.

If it's not normal for a bad alignment to have the outer tread at 3/16, then what caused that? And will it happen again? I'm venting a bit, but does anyone have any suggestions, do I have any recourse?

Excessive inner tire wear is 100% correlated with bad alignment (too much negative camber, or toe OUT).
Will it happen again - depends on the results of the "after" alignment settings.
If the Tesla SC is telling you bad alignment can't cause this wear - they are taking you for a ride!

I bought it 6/15/21 with 1000 miles, I've had it 3 months and it currently has 3950 miles. I'm feeling pretty soured on Tesla after this, if this is how they treat customers, not sure I want to continue to deal with them.

Did you buy a USED car from Tesla, or from a private party?
If the former, you have a prayer of a claim that they sold you a mis-aligned car.
If the latter, your claim is against whomever sold you the car. And it's all but un-enforceable.

a

 

[tangible1]

Did they give you a before/after on the alignment? It should be clear what was wrong if you have the before. If they didn't give you a before, something is kind of fishy, all alignment places do that.



None of the arms on a Tesla are adjustable. Rear camber can change maybe 0.2 degrees due to bolt alignment. A lot of racers would kill for a lot of camber, but you just can't get it.

But this isn't camber. This is toe out. Camber won't kill your tires like this in 4K miles, and extreme camber will wear a narrow strip of the tires. Also, camber doesn't cause squealing or floatiness. Toe out does.

And guess what? Toe is adjustable, while camber isn't. So unless they replaced parts, this either isn't fixed, or it's toe.

The issue is, how do you prove it was like this from the factory, not due to someone messing with it or hitting something? If you have the before report, I bet it shows both sides are toed out, and then you can show it couldn't be damage to one side. If it was only on one side, you would have been crabbing down the road with a non-straight steering wheel.

good call !!!

 

[tech_nerd]

I heard the tires squealing a lot and noticed the floatyness and terrible rain performance, I eventually made a video for the service center, but the closest appt was 2.5 weeks away. So after a week, I happened to check the tires and noticed how badly they were worn on the insides, so I attached a pic to my appt and asked if they could get me in sooner, something they ignored. Of course they then sent me an estimate for 2 new tires, I asked why, and they said that they'd have to inspect it and go from there. I didn't want to approve the estimate but they said they wouldn't look at it until i accepted the quote, so I was forced to.

It was bought used from the same service center.

They said a bad alignment would leave the outer tread higher than 3/16, so something else happened (i.e. my fault). I said I don't do burnouts and he said something about he didn't check the logs to corroborate, which I found odd.

This whole thing is absurd, 2900 miles and it's all my fault.

 

[UncertainTimes]

Someone abused that car for the first 1000 miles lol

 

[gearchruncher]

I said I don't do burnouts and he said something about he didn't check the logs to corroborate, which I found odd.

Unless you have a performance model 3 (which the tread on your tires tells me you do not), a "burnout" is virtually impossible in a Model 3 due to traction control.
That being said, a tech cannpt just go back and look through 2900 miles of logs and see how it was driven
I note you bought the car with 1K miles on it. Are you sure the previous owner didn't do anything to it?

 

[tech_nerd]

Unless you have a performance model 3 (which the tread on your tires tells me you do not), a "burnout" is virtually impossible in a Model 3 due to traction control.
That being said, a tech cannpt just go back and look through 2900 miles of logs and see how it was driven
I note you bought the car with 1K miles on it. Are you sure the previous owner didn't do anything to it?

It was a demo, and the tires were supposedly fine when it was there 2 months prior

 

[gearchruncher]

It was a demo, and the tires were supposedly fine when it was there 2 months prior

Ummm. It was a demo with a dinged up wheel?
Yeah, I think I know where the alignment issue came from.

 

[afadeev]

They said a bad alignment would leave the outer tread higher than 3/16, so something else happened (i.e. my fault).

The claim that bad alignment would result in a particularly predictable tire wear pattern is 100% BS. It all depends on the way in which the rear axle was misaligned.
Bold inside of the tire and 3/16 on the outside means either too much negative camber (should not be there, but your car was likely previously abused), or too much toe OUT. Both are entirely and completely possible scenarios. Coupled with a dinged rear wheel - both are equally likely.

You are dealing with a BS-er at the Tesla service center.
Call him out on it.
If that doesn't work, try to speak to his manager. Then to the sales manager who sold you a banged-up car.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
There is zero upside to silently accepting the $1000 bill for repairs to a damaged used car brought from the Tesla strealership.

Good luck!

 

[tech_nerd]

Here is the alignment they provided, seems pretty out of sorts.

 

[JohnnyMa]

Here is the alignment they provided, seems pretty out of sorts.

Wow that car was jacked up. Yup that Toe that far out will do it.

 

[gearchruncher]

Ok, so the toe was out like we guessed.
But it's out on all 4 wheels. And it looks like the front axle has been adjusted to make the wheel straight to fix the rear axle imbalance.

The issue here is that this is a used car, likely sold As-Is. It really looks like someone messed with it in the past, likely after a curb strike, but who really knows, and it likely doesn't matter. Whoever did mess with it did a real botch job on it for sure. But this will come down to what your agreement with Tesla was on a car that you knew to be a demo car. Given you don't know the whole history on this, it will be very hard to prove this was a manufacturing defect.

You might want to go with a safety angle- does PA require inspections? Toe out in the rear like that is actually unsafe as you mentioned from the way it handled. Tesla, as experts in cars, and a dealer of cars, shouldn't have sold you a car with that kind of defect, used or new, independent of the brand of car they sold you.

 

[tech_nerd]

Ok, so the toe was out like we guessed.
But it's out on all 4 wheels. And it looks like the front axle has been adjusted to make the wheel straight to fix the rear axle imbalance.

The issue here is that this is a used car, likely sold As-Is. It really looks like someone messed with it in the past, likely after a curb strike, but who really knows, and it likely doesn't matter. Whoever did mess with it did a real botch job on it for sure. But this will come down to what your agreement with Tesla was on a car that you knew to be a demo car. Given you don't know the whole history on this, it will be very hard to prove this was a manufacturing defect.

You might want to go with a safety angle- does PA require inspections? Toe out in the rear like that is actually unsafe as you mentioned from the way it handled. Tesla, as experts in cars, and a dealer of cars, shouldn't have sold you a car with that kind of defect, used or new, independent of the brand of car they sold you.

It's technically new, as it was never titled. It's still sold by Tesla, is still has a warranty, it's definitely not "as-is".

As for the safety, Tesla doesn't do inspections in PA because they'd have to be capable of doing emissions testing, and they don't have the equipment to do it, so any car they sell you is not inspected, which is kinda bull.

I'm waiting on a response from the service advisor where I'm asking for clarification on what they're stating the issue is, since he said that a bad alignment would leave the outer tread thicker, so something else happened to it. My next step is to get his bosses name and try calling him, not sure I'm gonna have any luck, but I don't know what else to do, this is utterly ridiculous.

 

[gearchruncher]

It's technically new, as it was never titled. It's still sold by Tesla, is still has a warranty, it's definitely not "as-is".

Tesla's warranty covers manufacturing and design defects.
The "as is" part is that you know this car was driven 1K miles as a demo. I assume you got a nice discount for that. Unless you have some other warranty from Tesla, the car "as is" for any damage done post manufacturing, even if it was still owned by Tesla at the time. You should have a document as part of it being a demo car. What does it say about pre-existing damage?

Tesla should make this right, I fully agree. Just trying to help you understand what thought process you should be taking here. This isn't a warranty issue because unfortunately there is no proof the car left the factory like this, and you have no idea who went at all your toe settings with a wrench. For all you know, it could have been some weirdo that took the car home one night. So this is really on the local service center/sales center.

 

[afadeev]

It's technically new, as it was never titled. It's still sold by Tesla, is still has a warranty, it's definitely not "as-is".

I would take the "before" alignment values, print them out, and head straight to the sales department demanding an explanation.
Make a scene, if appropriate, for full effect. They sold you are badly misaligned and, arguably, UNSAFE car.
How are you acting skills?

Their counter argument will likely be "it was not like that when you got it", and "you broke after taking delivery" by doing something crazy.
Technically, you can not longer prove that the alignment really was THAT bad. Nor can you, technically, prove it that you didn't go Dukes of Hazzard after taking delivery. Damaged wheel has been replaced, else it would have been a witness for prior abuse.

So it will all come down on how persuasive your subjective arguments are, and how willing they are to take responsibility.

It's a crap shoot, so good luck!

a

 

[tech_nerd]

Well, it's hopefully taken care of. I did some sleuthing, figured out who the Service Manager was on LinkedIn, based on their email naming pattern, guessed his email, and copied my sales guy about my frustration and disappointment with the location and the brand, within 30 minutes the service advisor called me a bit salty saying he was trying to get approval and I didn't need to go around him, but he has approval now, and they used goodwill and took care of it for me. I really hate being that asshole to do that, but it works.

 

[JohnnyMa]

Well, it's hopefully taken care of. I did some sleuthing, figured out who the Service Manager was on LinkedIn, based on their email naming pattern, guessed his email, and copied my sales guy about my frustration and disappointment with the location and the brand, within 30 minutes the service advisor called me a bit salty saying he was trying to get approval and I didn't need to go around him, but he has approval now, and they used goodwill and took care of it for me. I really hate being that asshole to do that, but it works.

Glad it worked out. Sometimes honey won't cut it and you gotta get salty on people.