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New regulations in Europe - Update to 16.2 or keep 12.x?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Dario_75D, May 27, 2019.

?

For EU users! Update to 16.2 or keep the "unregulated" version?

  1. Yes, go ahead and update to 16.2. It's not that bad.

    53.1%
  2. Don't even think about it. Keep it and enjoy the autopilot as we know it

    46.9%
  1. Dario_75D

    Dario_75D Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'm trying to make my mind up on whether to update my Model S to the new version 2019.16.2, or staying on the "old" 2019.12.1
    For the folks in US the doubt doesn't exist at all, but for us in the old continent it looks like AP got crippled by the new UN/EU regulations.
    Nevertheless I cannot really grasp a general consensus, as many users are posting that the new firmware behaves just fine.
    Where does the reality stand?
    I'd like to get some opinions from EU users that have gained sufficient experience with the previous versions autopilot and have updated to 16.2.
    Please note, I'm not discussing about summon (good to impress friends but never been useful in EU, due to the distance limitations) or NoA (too early I guess) but merely Autopilot.

    Shall I pull the trigger on the update, or keep the old one indefinitely?
     
  2. arubinst

    arubinst Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Ecublens, Switzerland
    Hi,
    Really a tough one... In my case, for my 40 Km daily commute (80 Km round trip), AP behaves just fine. So I voted "go ahead" but of course, YMMV.
    I have read the horror stories and I do not doubt some people are actually facing problems. But I have yet to find a situation where the new limitations become apparent for the kind of use I have.
    The only noticeable difference to me thus far is the fact that ALC won't work if I latch the turn signal. I need to only touch it up or down without latching for the line change to actually happen.
    Just in case anyone wonders, even though Switzerland is not par the the EU, it is subject to those same regulations.
     
  3. f205v

    f205v Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Tessin, Switzerland
    I left my car at the Tesla shop this morning for the 60.000 Km checking. Will recover it tomorrow morning.
    I specifically ordered the technician to NOT upgrade my firmware!
    Upgrading it for me would only mean to have the "fake" Sentry Mode and a zooming sprite in my IC. I do not need the former (basically only park in closed areas) and don't care for the latter.
    At the same time I would gain a less effective AutoPilot (no short radius bends), a crippled ALC (5 secs timeout and no change with stalk engaged), a reduced range Summon.
    The browser will remain the same (barely usable, thanks to the "no traffic data" trick), the USB music player will remain the same (just the bare minimum to use make it usable), no TeslaCam, no NoA.

    To me the negative of updating largely surpasses the positive of it, so I'm staying on 2019.12.1.1 for the time being.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. mrkisskiss

    mrkisskiss Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2017
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    London
    The main issue with the new update is the 5 second timeout on the indicators. This makes NoA effectively useless, as it'll often just abort lane changes, or even taking exits (since as soon as the indicator is switched off, it'll abort the lane change, and it can't take an exit within 5 seconds)

    The steering limiting didn't seem to be a huge issue, but the indicators things... yeah, that's killed auto-lane change, especially on Navigate on Autopilot.

    However, this update did largely fix the micro braking and twitching as it passed cars, which was so unpleasant it made AP unusable for me. Plus, it gives you the browser back on HW2.0 cars. So, all in all, it's a worthwhile update; just don't really expect to get much out of NoA until they make some concession for the 5 second rule.
     
  5. 4EVar

    4EVar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Browser is fixed. Bends - you won't notice any difference. Nav on autopilot is good. The 5 sec lane change is OK -you just have to look yourself for a space before indicating, instead of the car looking for a space for you. Not great but workable until they override it. It's worth the update. Much smoother ride.
     
  6. f205v

    f205v Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Tessin, Switzerland
    Well, I have checked my browser (2019.12.1.1 - traffic disabled) alongside my neighbour browser (he is on 2019.16.2 - traffic enabled) and they perform basically the same.
    Bends - I'm in Switzerland, lots and LOTS of mountains here, with average turning radius well shorter than anywhere else in Europe. The new EU/UN regulation enforcement IS an issue here.
    NoA - not available for Switzerland anyway, so I can put it into the "plus" side of the balance.
    5 seconds - Yes, I can watch for it myself, as I can avoid any driving help and go back to my old ICE car. The whole point of the driving helps is to "help", if it can't do it any-more it goes in the negative side of the balance.

    In the "software" menu of the settings the car keeps telling me to connect to WiFi, because an update is available, but I'll avoid it for the time being. Maybe I'll go to the next update, when it will be available and if the general comments will be positive.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. 4EVar

    4EVar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    For you, yes stay on the version you're on.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. fetzu

    fetzu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I wish we'd have a little more communication from Tesla regarding these new restrictions to Autosteer. Having the car behave significantly different after an update sounds pretty dangerous, specifically since the car has been behaving properly on those road stretches for a long while..

    I'll be staying in the "no update" camp for now..
     
  9. ramonneke

    ramonneke Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    For sure, if you have an EU Tesla, DO NOT UPDATE! I did, and I regret it even though it finally gave me NOA on my S but having crippled AP and lane change assist makes the update worthless.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    926
    Location:
    NYC
    did they end up upgrading your firmware?
     
  11. emir-t

    emir-t Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Istanbul
    I updated because I was excited for the new driving visulations nad just thought how bad can it be but no... Don't update it.

    - Auto lane change is literally useless now.
    - I haven't noticed any Autosteer steering angle limitations yet but then again I've only driven in the city with this version of Autopilot. I loved driving in mountainous regions with AP on but I'm afraid I'll be disappointed now.
    - It nags so much more for you to touch the steering wheel. So much that you are almost better off driving yourself. I feel like it keeps my attention more on the road so that's a good thing actually but comfort-wise, replying to e-mails in traffic is a dream now.

    I hope these regulations get rolled back soon but we haven't heard any news or rumours even for the source of these limitations let alone them being rolled back.
     
  12. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    926
    Location:
    NYC
    this was never the point of AP... I love how people are sad to lose something they never had.

    "sorry your honor.. I was replying to a VERY urgent email and took my eyes off the road for 25 seconds.. my car can drive itself you see..."

    no. the car cannot drive itself. it can follow lane markings and other moving cars ahead of it. that's it.

    I can see now why the regulators in europe put the brakes on the is AP stuff.. its sad. but people are obviously using AP not in the way it was intended.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. emir-t

    emir-t Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Istanbul
    I completely agree but this is human nature you see. People use a lot of stuff not the way the maker intended it to be. I believe that shouldn't be a problem as long as I keep the responsibility and don't blame Tesla for any adverse effects.

    Yet I understand where the regulations are coming from. I'm more like a kid who lost their toy at this point. or a teenager that got by their parents while drinking. I know I've done bad, I'm sad this pleasure was taken away.
     
  14. Mark_T

    Mark_T Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    UK
    I'm, not finding 16.2 to be a retrograde step personally.

    ...but then I never drive without at least one hand on the wheel because the car isn't ready for anything more than that and never has been.

    Equally, I don't think NoA is ready for casual use yet (in the UK at least) it doesn't really handle most of the exit ramps I've tried so far as it doesn't begin the manoeurve quickly enough for the rather short exits that are typical here.

    I don't feel that Auto Lane Change is useless, it just isn't significantly more useful than it was before, but I do like the indication of the preferred driving path which comes along wioth NoA.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Saimaannorppa

    Saimaannorppa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Finland
    Steering limits come into play only at very curvy roads at some speed, in my opinion in situations which would be slightly unnerving on autopilot anyway.

    However, what the actual f*** EU, does anyone think limiting cars ability to turn is a good thing for safety? Just to confirm: no it is not. Stupid protectionism for lagging European incumbents. Same as if Nokia had lobbied in 2007 that touch screens need to be as slow to use as symbian feature phones, by regulation.

    Lane change functionality seemed annoying now on a short test drive. Let’s see if I get used to it.
     
  16. f205v

    f205v Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Tessin, Switzerland
    No, they respected my will not to upgrade. I'm still happily on 2019.12.1.1
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. Dario_75D

    Dario_75D Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, guys, thanks for your answers. The poll is dramatically balanced, 24 votes and each option gets 50%.
     
  18. Jan Fiala

    Jan Fiala Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Prague
    DO NOT PUSH THE RED BUTTON! AP is cripped, NoA is useless gimmick. It approaches slower car in your lane, matches speed to it and then suggests a lane change to overtake. Just crap. And I'm not even mentioning the 15 sec fixed nag time, which is more than annoying.
     
  19. emmz0r

    emmz0r Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    Earth
    AP from 19.8.3 to 19.12.1.1 was terrible. Now I can actually use it again without the fear of being rear-ended.

    I got rid of sudden braking for non-existent speed limits (till now at least), and hard ghost brakes, so it was worth it for me alone. The big ghost brakes were terrible. Now there are a few tiny cute ones, but they don't affect me as bad.

    It seems to me that AP is a bit more brave in 19.16.3.2 vs 19.16.3, but that might be me.
    I tried it in a brutally sharp corner. It screamed but it did the turn, even if it turned the wheel 180 degrees to the right.

    NoA might be a gimmick but it actually worked when I used it for a test. Only thing that sucks is the blinking timeout. Tesla could have solved that by initiating lane change, but only start blinking when it starts changing lanes (ie. when it has slowed down to get space to change lane into).

    All in all I am happy with 19.16.3.2. You can choose the software option to be updated as quick as possible (Advanced) and pray that they will alleviate the EU situation. They have to.

    An added bonus is the new cool visualization, and more sentry mode activation options. Plus it has a small sentry icon next to the dash cam icon you tap once, so you don't need to dive into security and enable it there for each time.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. PrGrPa

    PrGrPa Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2017
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Manchester
    I tend to agree with you. 16.3.2 is OK. The major problem being the indicator timeout. Otherwise, I welcomed several of the changes.
     
    • Like x 1

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