New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[dirkhh]

That's not really odd. The main reason why crossovers and SUVs sell so well is precisely because minivans with their sliding doors are not sexy. I would think there is a large segment of the market that would not buy any car with sliding doors.

On the other hand, falcon doors are "cool" compared to even conventional doors.

The goal was to beat conventional doors in practicality (although their are tradeoffs) while avoiding the minivan problem.

It's entirely possible that you are right and that too many in the target audience would have frowned over sliding doors.
Time for a new poll. Stay tuned.

Edited to add: Here it is Which door style would you prefer, given what we know today

 

[jomo25]

More to the point, I've actually thought the X was more of a luxury/stylish minivan than CUV/SUV. The whole 'targeting women' comment even supports that.

That could be the reasons for interior design decisions favoring 'soccer mom/dad' use case scenarios over 'Home Depot run' scenarios. (And I'm not being sexist, I promise. Just basing it on marketing biases. I know plenty of men tote kids around -- in fact I'm one of them -- and plenty of women go to Home Depot.)

The term 'utility' can mean utilization for different means.

 

[dirkhh]

More to the point, I've actually thought the X was more of a luxury/stylish minivan than CUV/SUV. The whole 'targeting women' comment even supports that.

That could be the reasons for interior design decisions favoring 'soccer mom/dad' use case scenarios over 'Home Depot run' scenarios. (And I'm not being sexist, I promise. Just basing it on marketing biases. I know plenty of men tote kids around -- in fact I'm one of them -- and plenty of women go to Home Depot.)

The term 'utility' can mean utilization for different means.

Funny you should say this. In my family my wife owns (and uses) the power tools - and I just arrived at work after dropping off the kids at school. The Model X would be my wife's car and she is almost certainly the one taking it to Home Depot

 

[ZachShahan]

People are actually complaining about the falcon wing doors, still? We've known about them for years now. It's obvious the X was made with ease of ingress and egress in mind, first and foremost. The storage space is large, not the maximum space available, but it will be adequate for almost anyone. Take a deep breath, people and wait for the reveal/official specs.

Thanks. I was starting to wonder if I was going crazy. That's a ton of space in the back, and the gull-wing doors improve accessibility and will get a *ton* more eyes on Tesla. Not sure what people (other than Bjorn) are transporting, but the concerns here seem excessive on the surface.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It's entirely possible that you are right and that too many in the target audience would have frowned over sliding doors.
Time for a new poll. Stay tuned.

Edited to add: Here it is Which door style would you prefer, given what we know today

I suspect that the poll will change a lot once people start using the doors on a day to day basis. At the moment the disadvantages are very apparent compared to conventional/sliding, but no one has really experienced the advantages.

Anyways, here's an example of minivans vs SUVs/Crossovers. Mid-size SUVs alone sell at 2x that of minivans and crossovers are 10x that of minivans. By putting the car in the SUV/crossover bin, they simply have a far larger addressable market.
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

 

[scottf200]

Thanks. I was starting to wonder if I was going crazy. That's a ton of space in the back, and the gull-wing doors improve accessibility and will get a *ton* more eyes on Tesla. Not sure what people (other than Bjorn) are transporting, but the concerns here seem excessive on the surface.

My wife and I both love the Falcon wing doors and the concept. Several years ago we purposefully looked for a SUV with captains chairs in the 2nd row for easy access to the 3rd row. These are perfect. Would have never considered a Model X if it had sliding doors. I go to Home Depot and use the tools in my house and this will be great for doing that. Also will travel and visit people. Go out to dinner with 2 other couples, etc. When traveling sometimes the 2 in the back 1 would spread out in the 3rd row and the other would sit in the 2nd "row". The non-occupied 2nd row chair could just be moved forward to give the person in the 3rd seat more open area and feel.

 

[shokunin]

Can you even transport a few 8ft long 2x4's? In the S, you can recline the front row passenger seat back so that you can haul longer items. With the fixed back 2nd row on the X and the slope of the hatch, I don't think you'll be able to even carry a 8ft piece of lumber (unless you keep the back hatch open).

 

[Vexar]

Can you even transport a few 8ft long 2x4's? In the S, you can recline the front row passenger seat back so that you can haul longer items. With the fixed back 2nd row on the X and the slope of the hatch, I don't think you'll be able to even carry a 8ft piece of lumber (unless you keep the back hatch open).

I'm in the middle of a bathroom remodel at home. I've been using my Model S to great effectiveness. 8' boards (be sure to put something over the ends to prevent scuffing the leather) are no issue; 3x5 concrete boards are also just fine. 4x8 anything is out of the question. My wife and I are debating the Model X or a second (used) Model S, although at present, we have a reservation for her Model X. Cubic feet is rarely the make-or-break aspect, it's the actual dimensions. Can I fit a 6 1/2' truss segment for a show rig? How many Source 4's will fit in it? We got 12 into my Model S one cold winter day.

In the end, I just need to wait and see one.

 

[simplejack]

My theory on "wing-gate" is they designed them specifically to preclude the option for a roof rack know that putting things on the roof would destroy the aerodynamics and the corresponding range hit would be huge.

 

[scottf200]

I'm in the middle of a bathroom remodel at home. I've been using my Model S to great effectiveness. 8' boards (be sure to put something over the ends to prevent scuffing the leather) are no issue; 3x5 concrete boards are also just fine. 4x8 anything is out of the question. My wife and I are debating the Model X or a second (used) Model S, although at present, we have a reservation for her Model X. Cubic feet is rarely the make-or-break aspect, it's the actual dimensions. Can I fit a 6 1/2' truss segment for a show rig? How many Source 4's will fit in it? We got 12 into my Model S one cold winter day.

In the end, I just need to wait and see one.

My guess from work I did this morning. Did they give us a ruler for storage space and 2nd row?

Image: http://i.imgur.com/8YaKwNs.jpg

 

[wk057]

Can you even transport a few 8ft long 2x4's? In the S, you can recline the front row passenger seat back so that you can haul longer items. With the fixed back 2nd row on the X and the slope of the hatch, I don't think you'll be able to even carry a 8ft piece of lumber (unless you keep the back hatch open).

You can in the S for sure. I had 7 2x10s 8' long in the P85D a month or so ago.

 

[thegruf]

^ building yourself a sauna?

actually that is really useful to know - thanks!

 

[ZachShahan]

I don't see folks 'whining' (a term which has unnecessary negative connotations IMO) but there are some folks wondering out loud if the car will meet their needs. That's perfectly OK in my book and even if it's frustrating for some others I think we can live with it for now. Renderings and information are trickling out and will answer more and more questions as time goes by.

Whining is also about tone, which really can't be judged in text... so it really doesn't belong in a forum such as this. (Sorry, pedantic pet peeve popping out. )

 

[ProphetM]

Mid-size SUVs alone sell at 2x that of minivans and crossovers are 10x that of minivans.

Exactly. And yet, there is nothing an SUV does that a minivan doesn't do as well or better, aside from having a little higher towing capacity and a bit more ground clearance. But most SUVs will never tow anything their entire lives, and the number that will use the extra clearance is similarly close to zero - the vast majority will never see anything more challenging than a gravel road that any normal car can drive, and most not even that.

Tons of people prefer SUVs not because of their utility but because they don't like the looks of a minivan, with its flatter sides and sliding doors.

 

[ZachShahan]

I didn't know the Outlander PHEV was available now. With the rav4 EV going off the market, I honestly thought the X was the only one on the horizon.

*edit* all I could find: "Unfortunately, for US buyers, the Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In has been delayed for years. But a US release is apparently around the corner. (I know, we’ve heard that before, but I’m hopeful the news is for real this time.) Mitsubishi has indicated that the 2017 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In will arrive on US shores in the spring of 2016, just 3 seasons away."

That quote looks familiar (i.e., I wrote it). Unfortunately, it has reportedly been delayed *yet again* (!!): Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In Hybrid Not Hitting American Markets Till May 2016 (Rumor) | CleanTechnica

May 2016

Not sure how much people in the US are aware of it, but I'd guess people aware of it don't feel certain it will arrive. Great vehicle, though. Wickedly popular in Europe (was #1 plug-in vehicle of any type for awhile... but mostly because of insane sales in the NL).

I test drove it as well. Not any big complaints, but acceleration wasn't what I was expecting, which I think was partly due to the weight of the vehicle & partly due to the relatively weak electric portion of the powertrain. Spoiled by BEVs, and test drove the P85D ~1 month before the Outlander PHEV.

 

[bonnie]

a Not sure what people (other than Bjorn) are transporting, but the concerns here seem excessive on the surface.

It's much easier to protect a flat space, than a bi-level space.

Last week, I transported several 4' x 4' paintings. Earlier in the month, I picked up a LOT of large bags of mulch.

Yesterday morning I took 240 lbs. of labs to the vet for annual shots in the Jeep.

Yesterday afternoon, I drove 280 miles roundtrip to pick up this desk (30" high x 32" deep x 72" long). It was a very tight fit (30 1/2 " clearance to top of door opening), but it fit.

I don't feel it's excessive to say I was looking forward to that contiguous flat space.

 

[ZachShahan]

My wife and I both love the Falcon wing doors and the concept. Several years ago we purposefully looked for a SUV with captains chairs in the 2nd row for easy access to the 3rd row. These are perfect. Would have never considered a Model X if it had sliding doors. I go to Home Depot and use the tools in my house and this will be great for doing that. Also will travel and visit people. Go out to dinner with 2 other couples, etc. When traveling sometimes the 2 in the back 1 would spread out in the 3rd row and the other would sit in the 2nd "row". The non-occupied 2nd row chair could just be moved forward to give the person in the 3rd seat more open area and feel.

I'm sure a ton of people love them for their utility *and* their looks. The opinion in this thread is very warped because 1) it's a forum, and people complain more on forums; 2) some people have plopped down $5,000 or $40,000 or at least intended to spend ~$100,000 with very specific (and atypical) space needs, and are logically upset with the assumption that they won't be met. I'm not saying anyone needs to change their opinion, but everyone here should realize this discussion is quite warped and not representative of the market. imho

- - - Updated - - -

My theory on "wing-gate" is they designed them specifically to preclude the option for a roof rack know that putting things on the roof would destroy the aerodynamics and the corresponding range hit would be huge.

Ha, interesting idea.

I'm still guessing that it was to make an SUV/CUV that was much hotter than the norm and provided some extra functionality. Remember, Musk is tall and has 5(?) kids. I think it's safe to say he's very happy to have the utility of these falcon-wing/gull-wing/whatever-wing doors. And I think others will discover they like getting in and out and getting kids in and out of the back seats much more than in a normal SUV too.

 

[bonnie]

I'm sure a ton of people love them for their utility *and* their looks. The opinion in this thread is very warped because 1) it's a forum, and people complain more on forums; 2) some people have plopped down $5,000 or $40,000 or at least intended to spend ~$100,000 with very specific (and atypical) space needs, and are logically upset with the assumption that they won't be met. I'm not saying anyone needs to change their opinion, but everyone here should realize this discussion is quite warped and not representative of the market. imho

Zach, just because you don't have the same needs doesn't mean others' needs are atypical. The large flat space was obviously recognized originally (and in subsequent comms) by Tesla as important - or they would not have emphasized it.

I want a utility vehicle able to fill the gap created by a 2-seater Roadster. Right now, that's a Jeep. I want it to be an X with the capability of what has been communicated to me.

 

[ZachShahan]

It's much easier to protect a flat space, than a bi-level space.

Last week, I transported several 4' x 4' paintings. Earlier in the month, I picked up a LOT of large bags of mulch.

Yesterday morning I took 240 lbs. of labs to the vet for annual shots in the Jeep.

View attachment 94433

Yesterday afternoon, I drove 280 miles roundtrip to pick up this desk (30" high x 32" deep x 72" long). It was a very tight fit (30 1/2 " clearance to top of door opening), but it fit.

View attachment 94434

I don't feel it's excessive to say I was looking forward to that contiguous flat space.

Thanks for sharing. Now I know what Bjorn and you transport around But do you think the Model X won't satisfy your needs in this regard? This whole discussion just reminds me of people saying a Model S doesn't work for them because of the times they need to drive to the north end of Alaska to pick up their grandmother and take her to the hospital in LA. It's concerns about extreme cases, not the norm. And the space in the X (as plenty of others have pointed out) looks insane.

 

[bonnie]

Thanks for sharing. Now I know what Bjorn and you transport around But do you think the Model X won't satisfy your needs in this regard? This whole discussion just reminds me of people saying a Model S doesn't work for them because of the times they need to drive to the north end of Alaska to pick up their grandmother and take her to the hospital in LA. It's concerns about extreme cases, not the norm. And the space in the X (as plenty of others have pointed out) looks insane.

Sure, the mulch would have worked. But you're clearly not a dog owner . It's MUCH easier to protect/cover a flat space from the inevitable dog hair and y'know, drool. Now we're talking a bi-level space, much more difficult to protect (and consider how much more difficult to remove/install). Then there's the safety issue.

Pretty sure that desk @ 72" long would not have slid in the back as currently designed. However, it would have fit in the back of what we were shown at launch (Elon gave the dimensions by his 'queen sized bed' remark. Those are exactly 72" long.)

Tesla set this expectation. Whether or not you or I feel people actually NEED this space is immaterial.

Also note that while you think this isn't the norm, the ONLY time I flip up the 2nd row in the Jeep is when I have guests and need the seating. Otherwise it is flat. I'm sure others do the same.