New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[Krugerrand]

I 100% agree with you except Tesla already did that with an all-electric drive train with the longest range vs any other car maker. Where they are screwing up is when they take proven components and try too hard to make themselves different from the others. Cars while not biological evolve just like any other species. Proven, cost effective, reliable solutions stay while bad ideas die off. There is a reason why no other car manufacturer uses gullwing/falcon doors in mass quantities. It’s a bad idea with many compromises and a solution to non-existent problems.

It's never a mistake to try and fail. They aren't trying too hard to make themselves different, they are in fact just that different. It's easy for people to sit at their keyboards and criticize, and it's easy to say 'it's been like this for a hundred years, therefore this is the only way'. And if that means they make some foibles along the way, so be it. I'm happy that Tesla isn't stuck in a century's worth of thinking and in this case revisited a cool, old idea and hopefully made it work.

I saw the prototype up close. I'm looking forward to seeing a production model, and seeing what sorts of changes/improvements have been made. It was slick then, I'm sure it's slick now.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Most have it.

Then based on everything you know to date, you should cancel your reservation and find an alternative vehicle to buy.

Model S's excellent cargo capacity gets praise ALL the time.


In comparison Model X, as seen, sucks.


And we should just be happy about that? About being "good enough" perhaps? Model S is great in this area. Now it seems Model X won't be, at least for a while.

No one can tell you how you should feel, but projecting your feelings on everyone else is childish.

 

[WestCoastP85D]

I 100% agree with you except Tesla already did that with an all-electric drive train with the longest range vs any other car maker. Where they are screwing up is when they take proven components and try too hard to make themselves different from the others. Cars while not biological evolve just like any other species. Proven, cost effective, reliable solutions stay while bad ideas die off. There is a reason why no other car manufacturer uses gullwing/falcon doors in mass quantities. It’s a bad idea with many compromises and a solution to non-existent problems.

This is my point. If they just leveraged their super-EV drive train in a well designed C/SUV with traditional doors and fold down seats, they would have had higher sales. At this point, the S makes more sense than a compromised X with lower range, higher cost. Yes, the X bird-wing doors will capture attention and in town it can hold 7 people, but less capable road tripping for five people and cargo capacity seems to be the compromise which limits the U in SUV. I hope we are all wrong, and the reveal showcases capabilities we are not aware of.

 

[Merrill]

I'm amazed that we have so much speculation and negativity about features we have not seen. Has anyone that has posted about the seats seen a production Model X in person? Can we back off a bit and wait till we see a real X that has been delivered, then if we do not like something we can moan and groan about at that time.

 

[ohmman]

Has anyone commented about the fact that the three seats are separate, even showing separate supports (at least on the right). Could it be that the center seat actually folds down (you would even have room for the headrest without a front seat back)?

This has been mentioned but not that the center would fold down. However, I've considered the concept that the center could recline to flat or nearly flat, thereby giving you a straight shot to the center console area. Downsides of course with the exposing of leather, etc. And the framing of the seats in the renderings seemed to imply there'd be no reclining.. but I have to think these structural beauties do something.

 

[Krugerrand]

If they just leveraged their super-EV drive train in a well designed C/SUV with traditional doors and fold down seats, they would have had higher sales.

Pure, unadulterated, can't ever be proven, make believe. They haven't even delivered one yet. No customers have one. Nobody outside of Tesla, and most within Tesla haven't even seen a completed one. You have less than zero basis on which to make such a statement. Save this kind of 'they would have had higher sales if they'd done this or that' for at least a year down the road, when real 'I tried and it didn't work' data from owners is available.

 

[AnOutsider]

I'm amazed that we have so much speculation and negativity about features we have not seen. Has anyone that has posted about the seats seen a production Model X in person? Can we back off a bit and wait till we see a real X that has been delivered, then if we do not like something we can moan and groan about at that time.

Why couldn't folks comment on the Model X based on current information (and without seeing one in person) if Tesla expects folks to confirm orders based on that same scenario?

 

[WestCoastP85D]

IMO, the car should be LAUNCHED like a normal company. Then we would not be speculating. It is hard to believe there is not going to be an event at the end of the month.... really? So much for the "breakthough, hidden hold back features". If these existed or were of any significance, they would want to talk about it. I wager the X has the already excellent auto-pilot HW of the S, with some nice new headlights -- maybe a surround camera, but even that should have been mentioned to the signature customers. Would it be anything else material? It's funny how right the company got the S -- the first time. This alone set our expectations very high.

I'm amazed that we have so much speculation and negativity about features we have not seen. Has anyone that has posted about the seats seen a production Model X in person? Can we back off a bit and wait till we see a real X that has been delivered, then if we do not like something we can moan and groan about at that time.

- - - Updated - - -

Pure, unadulterated, can't ever be proven, make believe. They haven't even delivered one yet. No customers have one. Nobody outside of Tesla, and most within Tesla haven't even seen a completed one. You have less than zero basis on which to make such a statement. Save this kind of 'they would have had higher sales if they'd done this or that' for at least a year down the road, when real 'I tried and it didn't work' data from owners is available.

Ok. I just know that our intent to purchase has changed -- and I believe that we represent a portion of the target market. If you think the doors is going to kick-open a net new market bigger than the 5-person family who takes road trips, then I understand your argument. I really wanted this car, and still plan to order a III. I hope I am wrong and the reveal will showcase something I missed in my evaluation. Fingers crossed.

 

[efusco]

175 reservation holders have responded to that poll, or about 0.65% of reservation holders. If 0.65% of the worlds population had responded to a poll about favourite colour, or 47 million people, I would accept that as an indicator as well.

But if those 0.65% all came from a "Fans of Blue" web site would you still believe the results? Of course not. That's the major issue here, selection bias.

 

[ohmman]

I saw this image with exact dimensions of the yet to be released Powerwall units. Sigh.

 

[hpham007]

But if those 0.65% all came from a "Fans of Blue" web site would you still believe the results? Of course not. That's the major issue here, selection bias.

Except I see no such bias here. While there are fans boys on every site, TMC in my opinion has a fair number of objective users seeking the truth no matter if it's good or bad :smile:.

 

[Krugerrand]

IMO, the car should be LAUNCHED like a normal company. Then we would not be speculating.

Well, they don't agree in how it should be launched and not everyone is speculating. :wink:

It is hard to believe there is not going to be an event at the end of the month.... really? So much for the "breakthough, hidden hold back features". If these existed or were of any significance, they would want to talk about it.

Firstly, not holding an event at the end of the month doesn't mean there aren't features of significance that we don't know about yet. Nor does it mean Tesla won't be talking about them. But let's go out on a really skinny limb and say Tesla doesn't talk about them...it's assured owners will.

Ok. I just know that our intent to purchase has changed -- and I believe that we represent a portion of the target market.

Absolutely. That doesn't, however, mean that they won't sell just as many or more in the long run. There's no way to substantiate such a claim, so let's not state it as a fact. But I'm telling you - and I have no way of knowing other than understanding how people think and react in general and knowing how they've reacted to Model S handles, frunk, etc... - when the X starts showing up in mall parking lots, at grocery stores, at sporting events, etc... and those puppies open, people's jaws will hit the ground. If there's even a shred of functionality in them (ingress/egress), hold onto your hat.

You'll get whatever vehicle is appropriate to your and your family needs, and hopefully at some point it will be a Tesla or some other BEV. Fingers crossed on that for sure.

 

[Spidy]

Cut this nonsense off will you? Are you talking about Consumer Reports doing review on the car from a few pictures now? Why don't you go take a good night's sleep, no several good night's sleep and wait for 9/29 to see how the car is like?

Yeah, that's what he meant. Not that the car will be produced like that and they will test one of those.

 

[Yggdrasill]

But if those 0.65% all came from a "Fans of Blue" web site would you still believe the results? Of course not. That's the major issue here, selection bias.

I'd be more skeptical then, sure. But that isn't a factor here. This is "Tesla Motors Club", not "Folding Seats Club". The selection bias is working so that for the most part only people who are enthusiastic about Tesla respond. This works both ways, on the one hand this group is prone to consider anything Tesla does in as favourable a light as possible, on the other hand they are likely to be very opinionated. A person who desn't give a damn about cars might buy a Tesla just because of the brand recognition, and these people wouldn't be voting in this poll. Other people who are just looking for a practical family car might view non-folding seats very unfavourable, and also might not find their way here.

I don't think there is any very skewed selection bias involved. Some selection bias is unavoidable, but that's why I'm saying the poll is an indicator, not the absolute truth.

 

[BerTX]

I saw this image with exact dimensions of the yet to be released Powerwall units. Sigh.

View attachment 94507

Well, I think a Powerwall unit will fit in the back of the MX. Maybe that is the marketing plan...

 

[AnOutsider]

Well, I think a Powerwall unit will fit in the back of the MX. Maybe that is the marketing plan...

I know you Jest, but imagine if Powerwalls could be lugged around and used to give a quick jump to a dead S or X

 

[BerTX]

(disclaimer: I have neither a reservation nor immediate plans to buy an X. I'm a MS owner interested in Tesla's ongoing success in the market, and rather fascinated by thier/Elon's philosophy)

What this issue has me wondering about (well,one of them, anyway), is this:

What feature of the seats as designed is so compelling that it made making them non-foldable was a worthy tradefoff?

Safety? Given the examples of other vehicles with seat-mounted shoulder belts on both removable and foldable seats, that doesn't seem to be an insurmountable issue.
...

​I wonder what we are missing... if anything?

Did I miss something? I looked back and didn't see any viable examples of current vehicles with PEDESTAL folding seats (where the seat back doesn't lock into the frame, which it cannot on the MX) AND integrated seat belts AND sold in the US, thus meeting safety standards here.

The closest I have seen is the Sienna, and those seats were discontinued to make way for more cushy seats. Right. More likely they were discontinued because they were unsafe, and Toyota's marketing and legal departments agreed to spin the "we just wanted them to be more comfortable" angle.

 

[smac]

The closest I have seen is the Sienna, and those seats were discontinued to make way for more cushy seats. Right. More likely they were discontinued because they were unsafe, and Toyota's marketing and legal departments agreed to spin the "we just wanted them to be more comfortable" angle.

And moved the seatbelt mounting point to the C pillar at the same time

 

[hobbes]

Well, I think a Powerwall unit will fit in the back of the MX. Maybe that is the marketing plan...

That way you´d even get a Model X 100D, too! Sounds like a plan. Maybe you can even stack two.

 

[Matias]

I'm almost sure, Tesla will eventually launch foldable second row seats. My reasoning is based on three things
1) Tesla wants them (based on the fact, that they have advertised them before)
2) Some customers want them (no explanation necessary)
3) Foldable second row car seats are not rocket science (and even if they were, that would not be a problem:tongue

Based on 1,2 and 3; if you want foldable second row, it is maybe best to wait.