New Return Policy - No Exchanges

[techdash]

Tesla seems to have changed their return policy. If you return, you cannot buy the same config for one year.

• Once you have returned your vehicle, the return process is final and may not be cancelled. At this time, we are not able to facilitate vehicle exchanges. If you decide to order another vehicle, you may not order the same trim for a period of 12 months but may order another vehicle in a different trim at any time. However, if you are found to have abused this policy or have acted in bad faith, you will be prohibited from purchasing any vehicle for a period of 12 months.

Return Policy

 

[OCR1]

That policy has been in place for at least a few months, if not longer.

 

[camalaio]

Hahahaha.

So Tesla can present to you a vehicle with multiple delivery defects that the customer deems a refund is necessary for. Tesla then tells that already upset customer that instead of them being able to still trust Tesla and purchase a replacement in better condition, they're simply banned for a year?

This is going to go so well in Vancouver where they seem to have a lot of issues with presentable vehicles (and they usually only show the vehicle after payment -- that's another topic entirely).

Know what, I think our Model 3 is the first and last Tesla we're going to buy. This is not how I was hoping they were going to react to vehicles refunded due to unacceptable delivery issues. This is not at all admirable.

 

[techdash]

That policy has been in place for at least a few months, if not longer.

The exchange verbiage in my post may have been unclear. It’s been the fact that you have to do a new order if you return. But I’m pretty sure not being able to order the same trim is new, no?

 

[MP3Mike]

The exchange verbiage in my post may have been unclear. It’s been the fact that you have to do a new order if you return. But I’m pretty sure not being able to order the same trim is new, no?

No, that policy has been in place for a at least a few months.

 

[MP3Mike]

So Tesla can present to you a vehicle with multiple delivery defects that the customer deems a refund is necessary for. Tesla then tells that already upset customer that instead of them being able to still trust Tesla and purchase a replacement in better condition, they're simply banned for a year?

As long as you don't accept delivery you can get a different car. Once you accept the car and drive off is when the refund, and inability to order a direct replacement, would come into play.

 

[David L]

So Tesla can present to you a vehicle with multiple delivery defects that the customer deems a refund is necessary for. Tesla then tells that already upset customer that instead of them being able to still trust Tesla and purchase a replacement in better condition, they're simply banned for a year?

If there are multiple defects at delivery time, then the customer should reject delivery. This is different than purchasing the vehicle, then returning it during the grace period.

 

[OCR1]

The exchange verbiage in my post may have been unclear. It’s been the fact that you have to do a new order if you return. But I’m pretty sure not being able to order the same trim is new, no?

No it is not new. This has been discussed many times in numerous posts on TMC. That is why I have posted repeatedly to people getting ready to take delivery to reject any car with significant defects. You can’t rely on the return policy because they will take 60 days to refund your money and they will block you from reordering the same trim level.

There was one individual who discovered significant defects on his car and returned it within 7 days. The delivery manager made an exception to the policy and allowed him to reorder it but it required that he create a new order using a different email address.

In reality, I think anyone could probably do this and Tesla likely would not catch it. But you still should be very wary of accepting a car that requires any post delivery repairs due to this restriction now being in place. The return policy is effectively worthless as anything other than a worse case scenario

 

[techdash]

Well I stand corrected. Must have missed those threads. I did a quick google search before I posted this and didn’t see anything on the subject. It’s late so my Google fu skills must be off.

 

[camalaio]

As long as you don't accept delivery you can get a different car. Once you accept the car and drive off is when the refund, and inability to order a direct replacement, would come into play.

Like I mentioned, in Vancouver, you generally pay before you see the car. If you push extremely hard and piss off everyone, you can get to see it first. Otherwise, you get the usual assurances that everything will be fine, they'll fix any issues, etc. Of course, it's delivered to you in a dark garage so you can't exactly see anything until you drive it out as well. For context, the cars are in an off-site lot and are brought in as they're paid for and insurance/plates are being dealt with.

We know from experience that taking them at their word shouldn't be counted on. Not everyone will know this, nor should they be expected to. Should you be more sceptical for such a pricey transaction? Yes. Should you need to be? No, because it's so expensive and it's not like this is a small company that is trying to rip people off and disappear the next day.

If there are multiple defects at delivery time, then the customer should reject delivery. This is different than purchasing the vehicle, then returning it during the grace period.

As above. The grace period here is 7 days and defects must be reported within 100km. Many people will drive it over 100km just to get it home.

 

[OCR1]

Like I mentioned, in Vancouver, you generally pay before you see the car. If you push extremely hard and piss off everyone, you can get to see it first.

This is standard procedure for Tesla everywhere, not just in Vancouver. But you are still the customer. There is no need to piss anyone off. You simply arrive for the delivery appointment and let them know that for the next 45 minutes you will be conducting your pre-purchase inspection. During this time you can let the rep know he is free to work with other customers and you will let him know when you are ready for him. Once you complete your inspection you will be ready for the paperwork review.

You have to control the process, not them. But it never needs to be confrontational. It’s just you taking control of the situation rather than letting them do it. These reps are mostly recent high school graduates and this is their first real job. They just need to be told how it needs to be done and they will be fine.

 

[camalaio]

This is standard procedure for Tesla everywhere, not just in Vancouver. But you are still the customer. There is no need to piss anyone off. You simply arrive for the delivery appointment and let them know that for the next 45 minutes you will be conducting your pre-purchase inspection. During this time you can let the rep know he is free to work with other customers and you will let him know when you are ready for him. Once you complete your inspection you will be ready for the paperwork review.

You have to control the process, not them. But it never needs to be confrontational. It’s just you taking control of the situation rather than letting them do it. These reps are mostly recent high school graduates and this is their first real job. They just need to be told how it needs to be done and they will be fine.

Good to know. The dark delivery area might be a bit more unique though (and to my understanding wasn't always the case with Vancouver, this is a newer location for delivery due to the influx of Model 3 orders).

What would actually happen at the Vancouver store (keeping in mind they were doing over 100 deliveries per day) is something like this:

• You arrive and state your intent to see the car. This is a special request and send ripples through their rhythm and plans for the day, so they're understandably put off by your request.
• The garage is currently full and your car cannot be brought over. You need to wait for some of the people ahead of you to finish their paperwork, get plates, and complete delivery. This takes 1-2h on a good day as one of the early morning appointments.
• The team brings your vehicle over, again upsetting their plans and process so they're not especially cheery.
• They forget to notify you that your vehicle is there for inspection because you're just waiting until someone gets you, and they're extremely busy giving vehicles to people who have already paid and working with the next people in line to pay.
• You finally inspect the vehicle in a dark garage where it's extremely hard to see anything. They don't allow test drives to take it out.

It's not impossible to do so, but they make it very inconvenient (probably out of necessity, not malice) to do so. It might very well be 4 hours before you see the car due to the process disruption. Many people complained about 4 and 6 hour deliveries in Vancouver, and that's without disrupting the process.

If we all started inspecting, the process would change and it would be easier to do so. However, most people will never do this, mostly because you don't normally have to.

And because Tesla is aware of these operational difficulties and delivery defects and still chooses to implement a policy that punishes the customer for trusting them and going with the flow, that is what I find objectionable.

 

[cwerdna]

That policy has been in place for at least a few months, if not longer.

This is part of why I ask people to submit pages like the one in the OP to Internet Archive: Wayback Machine in threads like Hate dead links? Do your duty! Submit URLs to archive.org! - My Nissan Leaf Forum.

Can help prevent revisionist history and can usually preserve pages in the event they go away.

 

[OCR1]

Good to know. The dark delivery area might be a bit more unique though (and to my understanding wasn't always the case with Vancouver, this is a newer location for delivery due to the influx of Model 3 orders).

What would actually happen at the Vancouver store (keeping in mind they were doing over 100 deliveries per day) is something like this:

• You arrive and state your intent to see the car. This is a special request and send ripples through their rhythm and plans for the day, so they're understandably put off by your request.
• The garage is currently full and your car cannot be brought over. You need to wait for some of the people ahead of you to finish their paperwork, get plates, and complete delivery. This takes 1-2h on a good day as one of the early morning appointments.
• The team brings your vehicle over, again upsetting their plans and process so they're not especially cheery.
• They forget to notify you that your vehicle is there for inspection because you're just waiting until someone gets you, and they're extremely busy giving vehicles to people who have already paid and working with the next people in line to pay.
• You finally inspect the vehicle in a dark garage where it's extremely hard to see anything. They don't allow test drives to take it out.

It's not impossible to do so, but they make it very inconvenient (probably out of necessity, not malice) to do so. It might very well be 4 hours before you see the car due to the process disruption. Many people complained about 4 and 6 hour deliveries in Vancouver, and that's without disrupting the process.

If we all started inspecting, the process would change and it would be easier to do so. However, most people will never do this, mostly because you don't normally have to.

And because Tesla is aware of these operational difficulties and delivery defects and still chooses to implement a policy that punishes the customer for trusting them and going with the flow, that is what I find objectionable.

I get the picture. But to me it feels like you are a little too concerned with making the Tesla reps happy, or at least not upsetting them, when I think you should be more concerned with making yourself happy with the car and the delivery process. I don’t really care what Tesla employees think of me or whether they are bothered with my special requests. They will get over it and forget about me about 30 seconds after I leave. But if I take delivery of a car with issues I will be wasting weeks of valuable time chasing after Tesla to fix a car that should have been fixed before it was presented to me in the first place.

Some people will go out of their way to avoid conflict, even if it creates a significant burden on themselves by doing so. These are the people who then post their rants about how many issues their new car has and how difficult it is to get anyone at Tesla to fix things. We get these posts almost daily in this forum. We must learn from other people’s mistakes rather than repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[Lex2Caddy2Tes]

I agree the buyer should always be/feel in control. If the delivery process at Tesla is as described, pretty sad. The customer service issue will catch up eventually.

The one thing working against us as buyers is the expiration of the federal tax credit. If they push US deliveries to the end of the quarter, people may be reluctant to refuse delivery over issues that need to be addressed. 1875 plus headaches or 0 plus not headaches. I have a feeling people would choose the $.

 

[Uncle Paul]

To many posts of people doing a "show car" inspection of their cars. Bring their own high intensity lights and seem intent on finding somthing amis. They will reject car after car, and post on the forums their experiences. They keep going in hopes of finding the "perfect" car in their inventory. This causes chaos and inefficiencies in the Tesla delivery system.

It is well known that Tesla vehicles are mass produced, by a combination of people and robots. They are delivered long distances from the factory and can often sit in a storage lot for weeks, waitng for pickup. Things can happen along the way.

Tesla policy is to deliver the cars as is, and then offer due bills to have any issues addressed by service centers post delivery.

Tesla has these new policies to encourage people to accept and pay for their cars upon delivery.

While no manufacturers deliver 100% perfect cars, the act of rejecting a car for small issues is going to make getting significant issues cleared up more difficult for the rest of us.

 

[OCR1]

To many posts of people doing a "show car" inspection of their cars. Bring their own high intensity lights and seem intent on finding somthing amis. They will reject car after car, and post on the forums their experiences. They keep going in hopes of finding the "perfect" car in their inventory. This causes chaos and inefficiencies in the Tesla delivery system.

It is well known that Tesla vehicles are mass produced, by a combination of people and robots. They are delivered long distances from the factory and can often sit in a storage lot for weeks, waitng for pickup. Things can happen along the way.

Tesla policy is to deliver the cars as is, and then offer due bills to have any issues addressed by service centers post delivery.

Tesla has these new policies to encourage people to accept and pay for their cars upon delivery.

While no manufacturers deliver 100% perfect cars, the act of rejecting a car for small issues is going to make getting significant issues cleared up more difficult for the rest of us.

That has not been my experience. I took delivery of 3 brand new Model 3’s this year that were in perfect condition. I also rejected two of them that needed rework. Nobody was upset with me and nobody tried to convince me to take a car I was not happy with. There may be a few extreme cases of people rejecting four cars in a row but that is a rare exception. Most of the cars Tesla produces are in excellent condition. If you happen to get presented with one that is not there is no reason to accept it. There are plenty more to choose from.

Customers who have taken cars needing rework have posted numerous rants on this forum expressing their dissatisfaction with how Tesla has treated them. It has been time consuming, and there have been too many arguments over what Tesla is willing to fix post delivery. Tesla in general refuses to produce a written due bill of discrepancies so you have to trust that they will fix things to your liking after delivery. To me it’s just not worth it and completely unnecessary.

 

[camalaio]

I'm responding to represent the fact that Tesla needs to handle these situations better. I'm neither an investor nor shorter of Tesla stock, and have no interest in doing either. This is my purely response as a purchaser of a Tesla vehicle.

I get the picture. But to me it feels like you are a little too concerned with making the Tesla reps happy, or at least not upsetting them, when I think you should be more concerned with making yourself happy with the car and the delivery process. I don’t really care what Tesla employees think of me or whether they are bothered with my special requests. They will get over it and forget about me about 30 seconds after I leave. But if I take delivery of a car with issues I will be wasting weeks of valuable time chasing after Tesla to fix a car that should have been fixed before it was presented to me in the first place.

Some people will go out of their way to avoid conflict, even if it creates a significant burden on themselves by doing so. These are the people who then post their rants about how many issues their new car has and how difficult it is to get anyone at Tesla to fix things. We get these posts almost daily in this forum. We must learn from other people’s mistakes rather than repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

I am indeed concerned with having as little impact on others as I can, within reason. There are others like me in the human population, and actually quite a few. Any business needs to consider the humans they are doing business and should actively attempt to keep them happy, or these types of issues will come about and people will talk about them both personally and on forums. I don't think that's a failure of the consumers, I think that's a business problem for not trying to ensure their customers are happy and are delivered quality products.

For every car purchase I do, I do not go to the dedicated forums to see what level of defects I need to be prepared for. I'm not that pessimistic. There's also confirmation bias there, because people do go to forums with complaints. Additionally, not all vehicles even have active dedicated forums. For the Model 3 pickup I was aware of some potential issues due to various complaints, but personally didn't spot them even during a more thorough than usual delivery inspection.

For what it's worth (and to make a comparison often made), I wouldn't buy or rent a house without seeing it first, but that's not a brand new item where I expect no functional or glaring defects. I'm more evaluating what and how many issues there are in addition to how it suits my needs and preferences. Shelter is also a need, a vehicle (especially of this calibre) is very much a want.

I agree the buyer should always be/feel in control. If the delivery process at Tesla is as described, pretty sad. The customer service issue will catch up eventually.

The one thing working against us as buyers is the expiration of the federal tax credit. If they push US deliveries to the end of the quarter, people may be reluctant to refuse delivery over issues that need to be addressed. 1875 plus headaches or 0 plus not headaches. I have a feeling people would choose the $.

The credit/rebate expiration is a good point. Many people took delivery here in BC even with issues because they'd otherwise be missing out on a $5000 rebate (especially since there was a lot of drama with the funds reaching $0, then being topped back up).

To many posts of people doing a "show car" inspection of their cars. Bring their own high intensity lights and seem intent on finding somthing amis. They will reject car after car, and post on the forums their experiences. They keep going in hopes of finding the "perfect" car in their inventory. This causes chaos and inefficiencies in the Tesla delivery system.

It is well known that Tesla vehicles are mass produced, by a combination of people and robots. They are delivered long distances from the factory and can often sit in a storage lot for weeks, waitng for pickup. Things can happen along the way.

Tesla policy is to deliver the cars as is, and then offer due bills to have any issues addressed by service centers post delivery.

Tesla has these new policies to encourage people to accept and pay for their cars upon delivery.

While no manufacturers deliver 100% perfect cars, the act of rejecting a car for small issues is going to make getting significant issues cleared up more difficult for the rest of us.

Almost all vehicles go through mass production and delivery. In fact, many of them travel from another country and sit in lots for even longer than Teslas do on average. The difference is that traditional manufacturers generally try to deliver vehicles in perfect condition, fixing any issues prior to the customer even having the ability to see or purchase it.

Rejecting a car outright for small zero cost issues (car wasn't clean on delivery, no carpet protector cardboard mat, etc.) is indeed a bit silly, for lack of a better word.

Rejecting a car for not containing what was written down (e.g. 14-50 adapter) seems flippant, but at the same time the customer was under the impression they paid for this and are not getting it.

Rejecting a car because Tesla damages them prior to or during delivery and chooses to present it to the customer as-is instead of fixing it is Tesla's problem, not the customer's.

Rejecting a car because Tesla shipped it with paint and body defects is absolutely a must, and these are the most common (at least from Vancouver). They will not repair these at their cost after 100km. Ask me how I know since my drive home was 500km. Their policy of delivering cars as-is and fixing later is absolutely true, but the limitations on "later" are enormously misaligned with the fact that they have very few delivery centers (requiring people to drive long distances) and very few service centers (which are slammed with appointments and can't give estimates on completions even for people out of town).

"Encouraging people to accept and pay for their cars upon delivery" when they fall below the average delivery quality of other manufacturers (which also more readily fix issues post-delivery) is a slap to the face of the consumer. It's effectively stating "take it how it is or leave". Sure, Tesla. I'll leave. They've made their position clear and I'll happily comply.

 

[Tam]

...I think that's a business problem for not trying to ensure their customers are happy and are delivered quality products...

Indeed!

Traditional dealers allow a potential customer to inspect the car and even test drive it. If a customer doesn't like that car, then there's no need to pay!

I don't think Tesla's policy is fair: For being a whistleblower on quality issues, customers are penalized.

Some companies would reward customers if they can find errors on their receipts.

Tesla should change the policy and start rewarding the whistleblowers (customers who reject cars due to quality issues)!

 

[camalaio]

Indeed!

Traditional dealers allow a potential customer to inspect the car and even test drive it. If a customer doesn't like that car, then there's no need to pay!

I don't think Tesla's policy is fair: For being a whistleblower on quality issues, customers are penalized.

Some companies would reward customers if they can find errors on their receipts.

Tesla should change the policy and start rewarding the whistleblowers (customers who reject cars due to quality issues)!

Hah, you get it! I wouldn't go that far, but it's a funny suggestion

Your first line made me realise something, which is that this is partly a consequence of direct sales. A traditional dealer lot has options and is used to the concept of test drives prior to purchase, and that test driven car may be the exact one you purchase (often is). With this direct sales model in high-sales areas, they simply don't have the ability to match this in any way easily.