New Roadster Goodies for 2014
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Mitrovic
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JRP3
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AEdennis
Active Member
- Jul 23, 2013
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The first part of this article was confirmed by TeslaMotors twitter account, no word on the ROADSTER portion of it though.
"Something Cool" revealed
This article was just posted to Tesla's facebook page, confirming that Gen 3/Model E will be called "Model III"
Tesla Model III to challenge BMW 3 Series - World Exclusive | Auto Express
At the end, they include another quote by Elon saying that the Roadster upgrade will involve giving it a new battery, which will allow it to go 400 miles.
I'm very disappointed by this, as that's a ridiculous and unusably high amount of range, when they could have given us a lighter battery with the same range which would improve performance tremendously. Plus it would presumably be cheaper than a 400 mile battery. So now we'll have a very expensive upgrade which only makes the car "better" in one tiny way which applies to well under 1% of situations, rather than a cheaper upgrade which would apply 100% of the time and otherwise allow us to keep driving the car as we always had - only more nimbly, faster, and more efficiently. And all along it will make people with less than 400 mile range say "see, we need to wait and not buy an EV now, because range is just getting higher and higher and 200 miles isn't enough for me" or something silly like that. I'm very disappointed if this is the final decision about the "something cool" :-/ Hopefully the magazine just got something wrong, but the fact it was posted on Tesla's facebook makes me think otherwise. Sigh.
This article was just posted to Tesla's facebook page, confirming that Gen 3/Model E will be called "Model III"
Tesla Model III to challenge BMW 3 Series - World Exclusive | Auto Express
At the end, they include another quote by Elon saying that the Roadster upgrade will involve giving it a new battery, which will allow it to go 400 miles.
I'm very disappointed by this, as that's a ridiculous and unusably high amount of range, when they could have given us a lighter battery with the same range which would improve performance tremendously. Plus it would presumably be cheaper than a 400 mile battery. So now we'll have a very expensive upgrade which only makes the car "better" in one tiny way which applies to well under 1% of situations, rather than a cheaper upgrade which would apply 100% of the time and otherwise allow us to keep driving the car as we always had - only more nimbly, faster, and more efficiently. And all along it will make people with less than 400 mile range say "see, we need to wait and not buy an EV now, because range is just getting higher and higher and 200 miles isn't enough for me" or something silly like that. I'm very disappointed if this is the final decision about the "something cool" :-/ Hopefully the magazine just got something wrong, but the fact it was posted on Tesla's facebook makes me think otherwise. Sigh.
Roadster new generation battery announced
From Tesla Model III to challenge BMW 3 Series - World Exclusive | Auto Express :
Tesla’s very first car, the Roadster, was based on a lightweight Lotus Elise chassis and launched back in 2008. Its range of 245 miles is still pretty impressive, but Tesla boss Elon Musk is planning an upgrade for owners that will see that range increase to about 400 miles.
“The Roadster had an old generation battery,” he told us. “We’ll upgrade it to a new generation battery pack and it should have a range of about 400 miles, which will allow you to drive from LA to San Francisco non-stop.”
Looks like the "special something" for Roadster owners will be an option to upgrade to a new generation battery pack. Much longer range. And maybe supercharging?
From Tesla Model III to challenge BMW 3 Series - World Exclusive | Auto Express :
Tesla’s very first car, the Roadster, was based on a lightweight Lotus Elise chassis and launched back in 2008. Its range of 245 miles is still pretty impressive, but Tesla boss Elon Musk is planning an upgrade for owners that will see that range increase to about 400 miles.
“The Roadster had an old generation battery,” he told us. “We’ll upgrade it to a new generation battery pack and it should have a range of about 400 miles, which will allow you to drive from LA to San Francisco non-stop.”
Looks like the "special something" for Roadster owners will be an option to upgrade to a new generation battery pack. Much longer range. And maybe supercharging?
Botbldr45
Member
I very much hope the Roadster portion is wrong. 400 miles is unusably huge. It will also be much more costly than a reasonably-sized battery would be. They could make a 50kwh replacement pack which would probably have higher range (due to lowered weight), better performance, better handling, better tire wear, cheaper than the 80kwh (or whatever it is), etc. Will anyone actually pay the tens of thousands of dollars it would take to get a 400 mile battery in your Roadster, assuming there will be no performance improvements otherwise? I mean, maybe the car will be a bit faster, since you can draw more energy from the pack. But it would also be faster if it were lighter, along with those other improvements I just mentioned.
If this is the final decision for the something cool, I'm fairly disappointed in it. Shaving a few hundred pounds off of the car would have been much cooler. Unless they're just doing this as a headline of "see, we can upgrade the range later, stop complaining about range you dinguses" to the general public, but I would consider that counterproductive since all it will do is get people to delay buying EVs as they think range is "too low."
The other more cynical interpretation is that maybe they're doing this since they don't really want to have to make many of these packs, so they made an upgrade which they know nobody will get
If it costs 40k (just throwing a number out there since that's the current cost of a battery), you could almost get a supercharge-capable S for that price.Not necessarily, since Elon has said that it is not possible. Would require a complete overhaul of the Roadster charging system, which is separate from the battery. Also, considering it says "would allow driving from SF to LA", that seems to preclude supercharger access too - because if the Roadster could use SCs, then you wouldn't need enough range for the full trip all at once.
Also, if it's possible to supercharge with a huge new battery, it would also be possible to supercharge with a smaller new battery. I don't think it will be possible with either.
jbadger
TR#506, 3#1206
I disagree with you. A 400 mile range battery would be amazing as I use my Roadster as a daily driver and the performance is already top notch. I also frequently need to drive from SF to LA and back (the exact use case Elon mentioned) and with the current size of the battery, it's a 13 hour trip one way vs 5-6 in an ICE vehicle.
Additionally, it was discussed in various other threads that it's possible they couldn't change the weight of the battery more than a few pounds as it would require extensive testing and potentially recertification of safety tests.
djp
Model 3 Performance
"Something Cool" revealed
I really doubt it'll include SuperCharger access - that would mean changing the charging port, PEM, firmware and adding DC bypass. Way too expensive. The battery upgrade alone will probably be $40K.
I'm thrilled they're updating the Roadster pack, but would have preferred less weight with the same range instead of a 400 mile pack. Less weight would mean better handling and acceleration, which play into the Roadster's strengths. Long road trips aren't a strong suit for the Roadster.
I really doubt it'll include SuperCharger access - that would mean changing the charging port, PEM, firmware and adding DC bypass. Way too expensive. The battery upgrade alone will probably be $40K.
I'm thrilled they're updating the Roadster pack, but would have preferred less weight with the same range instead of a 400 mile pack. Less weight would mean better handling and acceleration, which play into the Roadster's strengths. Long road trips aren't a strong suit for the Roadster.
I too would like a lighter battery that makes the car a better sports car.
However, I totally understand that if you want to make a news splash you say "400 mile range" not "a little lighter so that it has a 0.3 second faster 0-60".
I am still hopeful that they will offer both options: a 400 mile version and a lighter version with about the same kWh as the old battery.
However, I totally understand that if you want to make a news splash you say "400 mile range" not "a little lighter so that it has a 0.3 second faster 0-60".
I am still hopeful that they will offer both options: a 400 mile version and a lighter version with about the same kWh as the old battery.
I believe the limit for that is 200lbs, though I'm basing that on hearsay. If it is, then 200lbs would be more than enough of a reduction for me. If, then, they put a 60kWh battery in it, giving us a little more energy but a little less weight, and somehow that works out to 400 miles or whatever, then I will be happy enough. But I would still very much rather not have that much range.
- - - Updated - - -
Exactly...that's why this sounds more like a news splash than an actual upgrade to the car, to me :-/
Allowing both options would be INCREDIBLE. That, perhaps, would be the best headline. "Tesla upgrades 6 year old sportscar and offers owners significant options while doing so." Would blow a lot of minds.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
A significantly lighter battery pack would probably necessitate a suspension change (spring rate), and probably also trigger doing new crash testing. That would be expensive, and wasteful of our Roadster supply.
If the threshold for crash testing is 200lbs (which I have heard once that it is, but I can't give a source for that), then 200lbs lighter would be fine by me. And there's no way a suspension change would cost more than the additional 200lbs of battery.
Plus, the suspension change could improve the car while we're at it. So they sell the suspension + battery upgrade together, give everyone custom/adjustable suspension and a lighter car (which is probably higher range anyway, since it's lighter, and maybe has a slightly larger energy storage than before), and it ends up costing 25k or something instead of 40k. Plus maybe give a credit for the used packs and bring that down to a reasonable high-4-digit-to-low-5-digit number? I'd be pretty thrilled by that arrangement....definitely moreso than 400 miles. Which I understand the niche use for and headline-grabbing aspects of, but I can't imagine it will sell to that many of us...
Theshadows
Active Member
I don't know nearly as much about the Roadster and I would like to pose this question.
What is the limiting factor for performance acceleration wise? For the Model S P85 it's calculated that the battery is the limiting factor. So in theory a bigger battery at the same weight should net out as a faster car. Perhaps this is the case with the Roadster. Plus I think access to the supercharger network would be a huge deal for roadster owners.
What is the limiting factor for performance acceleration wise? For the Model S P85 it's calculated that the battery is the limiting factor. So in theory a bigger battery at the same weight should net out as a faster car. Perhaps this is the case with the Roadster. Plus I think access to the supercharger network would be a huge deal for roadster owners.
chickensevil
Active Member
Honestly, no matter what they would have done it would have made someone unhappy (no offense FANGO). I think you have to consider what their options were, what they could devote time and resources for and finally what would actually be a pretty significant thing for roadster owners. A bigger and better battery is certainly significant... it is the core of the car. Since I don't own a roadster my opinion likely doesn't hold a lot of weight. But I would have to say, this wasn't just a casual thing they shot around the boardroom and then fired it off to the newspaper. They had to devote time and resources into this, and we will likely never know what else they possibly considered.
It isn't what you wanted, FANGO, (and hey, maybe they can still swing just a smaller weighted battery with approx the same range, who knows?) but I do think this was a very kind gesture. And maybe it won't cost as much as everyone thinks it will. MAYBE he will actually give it away or do it on the super cheap, given that without you guys the company wouldn't exist. I mean how much on their bottom line would it actually hit them to dish out for 2,500 batteries for free? Let's say 20k... that's only 50million. If they spread that out over a couple years, it would be a drop in the bucket!
It isn't what you wanted, FANGO, (and hey, maybe they can still swing just a smaller weighted battery with approx the same range, who knows?) but I do think this was a very kind gesture. And maybe it won't cost as much as everyone thinks it will. MAYBE he will actually give it away or do it on the super cheap, given that without you guys the company wouldn't exist. I mean how much on their bottom line would it actually hit them to dish out for 2,500 batteries for free? Let's say 20k... that's only 50million. If they spread that out over a couple years, it would be a drop in the bucket!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Don't forget, if the motor and PEM can handle it the larger pack can put out more power, and provide more performance. You also get access to a much more durable longer lasting chemistry. This could be a very nice upgrade, and it's a great PR move as well. Good job Tesla.
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