Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Does the new LR and the Plaid will be using the 2170 cells or the older 18650 ?
when using the 4680, would a battery casting will be used for the Model S Plaid+ ?
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New S Plaid HP/trap/technical discussion
- Thread starter byeLT4
- Start date
when using the 4680, would a battery casting will be used for the Model S Plaid+ ?
MagnusMako
Member
It would appear to be a combination of improvements as cited in yesterdays presentation. This includes a fully redesigned battery pack and modules along with model 3 and Y motor tech to enable 5x more high-speed quarter-mile runs in addition to a unique high-speed, high-power rotor...
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
The new base model's 3.1 0-60 time means the entry-level S is now as fast as the highest-performance S you could buy six years prior (a P85D prior to the Ludicrous upgrade.)
Also, the 3.1 of the new base S appears to be measured without the rollout fudge factor. I don't think that was the case with the P85D.
Also, the 3.1 of the new base S appears to be measured without the rollout fudge factor. I don't think that was the case with the P85D.
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Any motor experts here who could explain how carbon sleeving allows higher power to be held to higher rpm?
Best guesses on the answers, feel free to pick apart LOL!
f205v
Member
I can answer only this one: YES! it's mandatory by law this side of the pond.
Is it really? Then how is Nissan still selling Leafs with CHAdeMO? I thought the law only applied to charging stations, not cars.
MarcG
Active Member
Clearly Plaid+ since they showed the lap time and announced the car at the end of their Battery Day presentation to showcase the power of the 4680 cells.
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whitex
Well-Known Member
So they are pulling same old marketing tricks to make Plaid look better than it really is? Measure the 0-60 differently on Long Range than Plaid, to make the difference look bigger than it really is. *sigh* Come on Tesla, do you really have to fudge the numbers like this? How about measure all your cars consistently the same way (with or without rollout, pick one and stick with it).
But then again, Tesla duped me into paying you $25K more for only 50hp extra by specing the hp on 85D vs P85D differently (85D had real hp listed, while P85D had theoretical hp if the motors were put into a different car with a much better battery which Tesla hasn't invented at that time yet, something Tesla didn't admit till 2 years after they got my money), so perhaps this is an effective car salesman marketing technique. Worked better on me than "what can we do to get you into this car today sir" ever did.
46&2
Member
Since when?
You can buy a Model X (LR+, in stock) WITHOUT CCS today, and get it in a few days. The same has been possible before, in fact every Model S and X bought in 2020 came with an adapter (or had to be updated to CCS-charging via adapter).
? Explain, please
I don't think the sleeve itself did it...
To touch on the first post,
There is a maximum power the pack can supply; however, the power the motor can put out rolls off at higher speed due to back EMF (voltage) proportional to RPM which reduces the effective voltage across the motor windings which reduces the current in the motor which reduces power.
Two ways to shift the roll off point: one is to boost the pack voltage, this is unlikely to maintain supercharger compatibility (you can divide the pack in half and switch from parallel to series, but that adds complexity). The other is to change the RPM versus voltage ratio by altering the motor windings or construction.
Decreasing the windings proportionally decreases the back EMF but it also reduces the torque you get for a fixed amount of current. However, at low speeds, the drive electronics are limiting torque anyway, so no biggie.
At least, those are the normal ways...
Tesla did something a little different, Plaid is tri-motor, so the rear drive unit went from one motor to two. That means each motor only needs to put out half the power, meaning half the torque for a given RPM. Less torque is less current and needs less voltage across the motor meaning the point where back-EMF limits power shifts upward by a bunch. At the same time, the low end max torque output is cut in half per motor, so you can rewind the motor with say half the windings, and keep the same drive electronics. This winding change also halves the back-EMF pushing the power reduction region even higher. Net result: no motor induced power roll off within the operating range.
Or something like that
The carbon part may be for strength due to shinking the rotors to fit two in the samish volume. Less diameter means less torque for the same current, so they may have boosted the max RPM to compensate. Or maybe mass reduction.
MarcG
Active Member
It can change the amount and shape of the field; however, there must always be back EMF, without that voltage, there can be no power output P=I*V.
That said, a pure reluctance motor has no back-EMF when not driven/ energized electronically nor does an AC induction motors. Field phasing can also let you trade off speed for torque.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
The "670 hp" advertised of the new "base" Model S translates to 500 kW, which is more than my P85DL has ever produced. I haven't even seen 450 kW - best I've seen during a logged (TM-Spy) run was 429.5 kW, about 576 hp. I bought my car used and it had already had V9 installed. I really doubt, even with the L upgrade, that it hit 691 when new, let alone the 742 or whatever Tesla advertised.
Still not sure how they got away with that one. I once worked with a guy who would have been all over the TV news, armed with dyno results proving Tesla was lying, but he was a motorcycle guy, and not a car (or EV) guy. Ducatis and such were his toys, he had a Dodge Ram for hauling them.
sillydriver
Member
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