Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

New S60 battery degradation thoughts

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

gabeincal

Active Member
Jul 5, 2016
1,369
10,961
SF Bay, CA
IF and only IF the current S60 (75 limited to 60) batteries degrade, does Tesla have a contractual or goodwill reason to avoid this degradation?

See technically, since the 60 is a 75 battery, there is no reason that the 60 capacity should start losing any miles before it lost almost 15kWh down from the 75. But if it does, then Tesla is basically not doing a goodwill effort to the 60 owners despite the fact that they COULD do it.

My problem is this: degradation is a physical property that is given. There is not a lot we can do about it and therefore it is widely accepted. However, in the case of software limited batteries (60, 70 and maybe some 85's?), Tesla could do battery management tricks to avoid this degradation for many many years. If they don't then they're basically enforcing a physical property that needn't be affecting these users and I can see how (if it got bad) they could be taken to court for not acting faithfully towards these owners.

What do you guys think?
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Rocky_H
So I'm just about to trade in my S70D (locked S75D), after 18,000 wonderful miles in a little over half a year….

It started out charging to 236-237 miles at 100%, but now it charges to 228. I've only occasionally used 100% charges for starting trips and never left it over 90% for more than 8 hours.

So I can tell you, for sure, the degradation is exposed even if you are locked to a lower capacity. If there's 96% of the battery available, you will get 96% of the original rated capacity for your trim.


(FWIW, I agree that it feels a little gross that Tesla could offer me 239 miles still, but they won't. But at the same time, it'd make the 60->75 or 70->75 upgrade dumb and pointless if it's just going to be gone in a year or two).
 
(FWIW, I agree that it feels a little gross that Tesla could offer me 239 miles still, but they won't. But at the same time, it'd make the 60->75 or 70->75 upgrade dumb and pointless if it's just going to be gone in a year or two).

Thanks for this, exactly what I was looking for... So they do percentage of remaining capacity to be available rather than a fix capacity...

Yeah it does feel wrong because this way degradation is not eating into their profit that much and it's just sad to see that they prioritize profit over the happiness of the owners...
 
Thanks for this, exactly what I was looking for... So they do percentage of remaining capacity to be available rather than a fix capacity...

Yeah it does feel wrong because this way degradation is not eating into their profit that much and it's just sad to see that they prioritize profit over the happiness of the owners...
You didn't pay for that battery capacity and the benefits it provides. Not sure why you feel entitled to it.
 
You will see degradation, just less since it's never charged to 100%. You bought 80% of a 75kwh battery and there will be some degradation, but as folks have learned, Tesla batteries degrade minimally. As 80% of that battery changes in capacity over time, that's what you'll have.
 
I read somewhere all tesla batteries degrade 5% within the first 50k miles but then between the next 50k-500k miles you only see another 5% degradation on average. Unless you're flooring your car or draining the battery on a daily basis i think the battery will outlast the car.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: SmartElectric
I read somewhere all tesla batteries degrade 5% within the first 50k miles but then between the next 50k-500k miles you only see another 5% degradation on average. Unless you're flooring your car or draining the battery on a daily basis i think the battery will outlast the car.

Well the range looks anywhere from 2% to 10% when I looked at the previous data. And some of that is luck-of-the-draw, not just owner usage/abuse patterns.

But degradation is important to keep in mind if your travel patterns strongly depend on your car getting close to advertised range. 5% could be a nontrivial number of miles.
 
i really love how this forum is filled with nerds and dreamers more so than any other forum ever.

i'm charging mine from ~20% to 100% every day, so i guess we'll find out how it does in a few years..

To be fair, while some dreams are out of the question, others are not as clean cut. Take my situation: I had a software locked 70D delivered with 236 miles. Which is below the EPA rated mileage, which is based off an average between the 90 and 100% charge anyway. They explained that the underlying 75kWh battery pack, with normal manufacturing variance, has less capacity than others, and that as a result my locked capacity is also lower.

It's one thing if the pack degraded because of my charging or using habits. But to start out of the gate with a lower capacity despite the ability to provide me more, I think that's a bit evil. IMO they should at least trim the available capacity of the 60D/70D to the value on the window sticker that the EPA certified.
 
I read somewhere all tesla batteries degrade 5% within the first 50k miles but then between the next 50k-500k miles you only see another 5% degradation on average. Unless you're flooring your car or draining the battery on a daily basis i think the battery will outlast the car.
I read somewhere all tesla batteries degrade 5% within the first 50k miles but then between the next 50k-500k miles you only see another 5% degradation on average. Unless you're flooring your car or draining the battery on a daily basis i think the battery will outlast the car.
I think I read somewhere tesla cars body is going to rust before battery dies.
 
and I can see how (if it got bad) they could be taken to court for not acting faithfully towards these owners.
That is a ludicrous notion (pun intended). Yes, Tesla has that capability to make those particular cars immune from degradation. That would be a lavish and generous thing that they could do. But then you have a warped idea that because they could bestow that gift on people, they are somehow legally obligated to do it and could be sued and found liable to be forced to. Buyers of regular full battery cars like the 85, and the 100, etc. have to suffer regular degradation, so that is the norm, and buyers of the artificial "60" cars don't have a legal right to be saved from that fate.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: ElectricIAC