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New security layer: disabling passive entry

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by e-FTW, Aug 26, 2017.

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  1. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    Tesla is said to be rolling out a new setting in OTA software updates. It adds a setting whereby you can disable auto-presenting door handles (and unlocking of the car) that happens by the mere presence of the fob.
    If you toggle the new setting, you will be required to click the top button on the fob to get the handles to present.

    This is meant to mitigate the vulnerability that some thieves in Europe seemed to have found where they use to capture and send your fob's unique signal.

    Source: Tesla adds 'Passive Entry' to combat vehicle theft by keyless-entry exploit

    [Edit] They actually got this from:
     
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  2. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    are you sure that this is this something new? I think the auto present can be changed from the settings
     
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  3. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    This is requirIng the fob be clicked to unlock. Before it was autounlock but not autopresent. See the video. The setting is not on one car.

    And this was posted on Reddit several days ago from Europe, I believe I first posted about it here on TMC and then Erik and David did the video. As David discusses. But the provenance doesn't really matter. :D
     
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  4. zambono

    zambono Member

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    What would prevent those with the frequency repeaters from capturing the click command as well and then repeating it another day?
     
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  5. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Good point. Don't know if there's anything unique about that or not for a particular fob/car.
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I watched the section of that video that described the new Passive Entry feature. So with that setting enabled you have to click the fob to open the doors. However, aren't there many other cars besides Teslas that allow owners to configure them to automatically unlock on approach, meaning their fob sends a signal to the car to unlock with the owner having to do anything. In other words, this issue of a thief capturing the fob code remotely would be possible in other car models, not just Teslas.

    True, but I think it would be more difficult to steal a car that way because you would have to find it again. Not impossible, but more difficult. But if the car was regularly in that parking area, then it would indeed be relatively easy.

    My speculation: so the current situation is that the thief hangs out in a parking area where Teslas are frequently present. So car arrives, the thief strolls by as the owner walks away from the car and captures the code. Then as soon as the owner leaves the thief enters the car. Or the thief captures the codes when the owner arrives and walks up to the car.

    Perhaps the lesson here is to watch out for anyone who appears to be hanging out within 15 ft of your car as you exit or enter it.
     
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  7. zambono

    zambono Member

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    I think these situations happen precisely where one parks regularly. European cities have a lack of private parking specially in the older city centers. Owner parks in the same street regularly and eventually key code is captured
     
  8. Skysurfer

    Skysurfer Member

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    They likely use a rolling code, so you can't simple replay a captured command a second time.
     
  9. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Right, like the standard for garage door openers for quite some time.
     
  10. widodh

    widodh Model S 85kWh

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    I enabled this yesterday due to the stories where people broke in to cars this way.

    Also migt save a bit of battery from the car? I don’t know
     
  11. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    I changed this new setting (Passive Entry = OFF) the other day, after it appeared with the latest software update I received (2017.34 2448cfc)

    After doing so, I noticed an unanticipated /minor side effect of having this setting OFF:

    If you drive somewhere and park the car, but then STAY in the car and wait a while, after some period of time passes and then you press the brake to start the car again a warning appears on the dash "Unlock Required. Unable to start the car". You can no longer wait in the driver's seat indefinitely and later simply drive away (fob in pocket) after being parked, like you could before i.e. with Passive Entry = On

    IMG_8023.JPG

    I'll often drive my wife somewhere and drop her off while I wait in my MS for her to return. Now with Passive Entry Off, after waiting a while I now have to find & double click the fob (or unlock via the app) before driving away, even though I never got out of or locked the car. A minor inconvenience, but just a difference I noticed, FYI
     
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  12. Chaserr

    Chaserr Member

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    Rolling codes have been captured and exploited for click-to-unlock fobs, but those captured codes can only be used once. The exploit for this was something like "capture device blocks signal from getting to car, captures the code that would have worked." The captured and unused codes will work later, because they are legit and the car sees them as unused. The driver likely never notices because they simply had to click 2 or 3 times depending on how many codes are captured. This was something of a spearfishing method of targeted theft.

    The Tesla passive update seems like it's addressing a different exploit, one that might mimic the fob's permanent passive signal. This might be less targeted; the passive signal might be captured by anyone in range of a capture device even if it is not while unlocking or locking the car.
     
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  13. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    I’ve seen this also when getting in the car and sitting there and playing with settings or music or something. The car is obviously unlocked, I got in! But sometimes you need to double-click again to actually re-unlock the ‘drive away’ part. Haven’t tied down the actual steps/circumstances yet; car is charging.

    All in all, though Passive Off is still a good idea, in my opinion.

    (And 17.38 just came out (sez TeslaFi) it may have an update to this, who knows... :D)
     
  14. StefanSarzio

    StefanSarzio Member

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    Charging or not doesn't matter. It's just a timer.
     
  15. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    I've seen this too just a few minutes after getting back in the car after being parked somewhere if I don't drive right away (not charging). Yes it seems to be a timer but it's unclear how long and duration seems inconsistent(?).

    The bigger annoyance I'm finding with this new setting is that I can no longer approach the locked car from the rear carrying a big load of groceries or whatever and simply pull the trunk latch up to open without first finding/fumbling for the fob (of course, expected behaviour of passive off). So, convenience vs presumably more security...
     
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  16. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    I believe the timer is 30 seconds, based on the week I used it.
     
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  17. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Maybe we need TouchId since we can't have the 'kick to open' since that would be Passive Entry. :D
     
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  18. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    I've seen various time periods go by before the Unlock Required message, sometimes more than 5 minutes of sitting there after parking and letting a passenger out (but not touching anything on the screen etc), other times much less than that after getting into the car. I can't yet figure out the triggers or time interval, it doesn't seem consistent...
     
  19. Solarman004

    Solarman004 Member

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    This function is in the MX also. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I was on the phone with roadside assistance trying to figure out how to start the car when I decided to try double clicking the FOB. This timer issue is not mentioned in the owner's manual, but I think I will send in that recommendation.
     
  20. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    It actually is in the onboard manual. It says five minutes. At least under 17.42.1 for the Passive Entry slider. Perhaps they just updated it?

    I was looking to see if there was any details on the setting, since mine times out weirdly, and was trying to see if they mentioned the duration.
     
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