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New Southern California edison time of use rates

Ampster

Active Member
Oct 5, 2012
1,813
501
Kenwood, California
Too expensive to install second meter
I applied yesterday and will report back on the cost. According to what I read this is not the kind of meter that costs thousands of dollars to install.

Note: the cost is $63 for the meter. I am going to install the current clamps myself. If I use 85 kWhrs per month that will pay for the meter and after that I can Charge at $0.05/kWhr. My Super Off Peak is running 200 to 300 kWhrs per month, most of which is charging.
 
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ddimit

Member
I applied yesterday and will report back on the cost. According to what I read this is not the kind of meter that costs thousands of dollars to install.

Note: the cost is $63 for the meter. I am going to install the current clamps myself.

Same here Ampster, its only a year pilot but the drop in the cost per KWH will more than pay for itself. If the pilot proves out this would be a cost affordable way to get the dedicated EV rates with out paying for a second meter.

The last time I talked to Emotorworks they were not getting enough interest from SCE Customers.

The pilot is also open to SDGE and PGE Customers

If your an SCE customer and on a TOU rate or Tiered rate without a second meter and your not on the pilot you are throwing money away.

Minus the 63.00 cost for the submeter your KWH rate for you EV is less than 1/2 off the Off peak rate and you pay 12cent per KWH during on peak.

I hate to sound like a preacher but this is really a good deal and helps the utility to gauge interest in a affordable cost to a second meter.
 
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smilepak

Active Member
May 11, 2015
1,772
579
SoCal, CA
I had asked a couple electricians and the average cost was like 2k to install a second meter.

The time of use rate has two pay rate, those using over 700 kW and those using under 700.

If you move off to second meter, you might fall under 700 and it can be a bit pricey for tou?

Southern California Edison - SCE
 

Ampster

Active Member
Oct 5, 2012
1,813
501
Kenwood, California
Smilepak,
Did you ask them specifically about the Wattbox? That is the device that this promotional deal is about. As far as I can tell it requires an electrician to place a current clamp around one or both of the conductors feeding your EVSE. I am still trying to find the manual or wait till it arrives to clarify.
Are you talking about TOU-D-A or TOU-D-B? I haven't seen the new rate schedule but if if it costs more, I would unplug it. Please explain why it would cost more to charge my cars at $0.05 than it would at $0.11 per kWhr.
It is your loss if you made your decision because you asked the wrong question and didn't check your math. Don't expect others to follow.
 
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smilepak

Active Member
May 11, 2015
1,772
579
SoCal, CA
Not specifically about Wattbox, just a second meter in general as listed
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/residential-rates/!ut/p/b1/hc_NboJAFAXgZ3HBUubAGMHuhpQMg3-1osXZNNDgSIKMQVrSt-9o3Giq3t25-U5yL5EkJbLOfkqVtaWus-qU5fDT8TmLxBKCrxIGEbwGTjQVwGxgwMYA3BmGZ_0PIq-Jn_DQkDFG6zeXDjzvFvB3z4WI1-FkHjgufPcCRhxhFM8NSBYUgi4wWzJGgeEFPDgyJlJVOj8_vGF1Tn1FZFNsi6Zo7O_GrHdtezi-WLDQdZ2ttFZVYX_pvYX_Kjt9bEl6Lclhn6IUfZn_dr0_EY5KsQ!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?from=/residential/rates/electric-vehicles.htm

On the tou a vs tou b plan, for me now I average 720 kW per month. Which at super off peak is 11cents. But during peak it is 35 cents and off peak 18 cents.

If I move my vehicle charge off to second meter, the question is, can you combine total kW to maintain the TOU-B rate. Or will take cause you to pat TOU-A rate of 46 cents for peak and 30 cents for off peak.

Yes you might be paying 5 cents vs 11 cents for ev charging, but what about the rest of the house, what rate will they put you on? That was my concern

If they can or will not combine your two meters to give you the TOU B rate, you might be saving with EV at 5 cents vs 11 cents like you said, but the whole house is paying at 46 cents and 30 cents if you can exceed 700 kW requirement per month without accounting for the EV
 
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Ampster

Active Member
Oct 5, 2012
1,813
501
Kenwood, California
Oh, that is a little clearer. I am on solar and have a load shifting system so I actually benefit from high daytime TOU rates. No matter what your conumption is SCE can't change your rate from B to A. You will have to do the math to see how much it will cost if indeed you fall below 700kWh per month compared to the money you would save buying at $0.05 vs. $0.11. I am on a TOU-D-A rate because I get credited for what I generate at $0.46/kWhr.
Admittedly this discussion about the Wattbox deserves it's own thread because it is really not about the new rates but an entirely different program.
 
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fengshui

Member
Nov 9, 2012
427
50
Santa Barbara, CA
If I move my vehicle charge off to second meter, the question is, can you combine total kW to maintain the TOU-B rate. Or will take cause you to pat TOU-A rate of 46 cents for peak and 30 cents for off peak.

Yes you might be paying 5 cents vs 11 cents for ev charging, but what about the rest of the house, what rate will they put you on? That was my concern.
As I understand it, you can pick TOU-A or TOU-B. Your usage doesn't determine which one you must use, just which one they defaulted you onto. I think TOU-B has limited enrollments, but that's the only restriction.
 

smilepak

Active Member
May 11, 2015
1,772
579
SoCal, CA
As I understand it, you can pick TOU-A or TOU-B. Your usage doesn't determine which one you must use, just which one they defaulted you onto. I think TOU-B has limited enrollments, but that's the only restriction.

Time of DaySummer (June – September)Winter (October – May)
On-Peak: 2 p.m – 8 p.m. (non-holiday weekdays only)46¢36¢
Super Off-Peak: 10 p.m. – 8 a.m. (every day)11¢11¢
Off-Peak: 8 a.m. – 2 p.m. and 8 p.m. – 10 p.m.30¢26¢
Baseline Allocation Credit (per kWh)-10¢-10¢
Fixed Charges
Monthly Basic Charge
(This is a flat daily charge that is billed on a monthly basis)
93¢
Residential Time-of-Use TOU-D-A* (price/kWh)
*The rate factors shown are effective as of 3/2/2015. Rates are subject to change. Other charges will also appear on the bill.
Notes about this rate plan:

  • This rate plan has a lower monthly customer charge, but higher kWh pricing as compared with Option B.
  • This rate plan may be more beneficial to customers with usage of less than 700 kWh per month.
  • There are a limited number of enrollments available for this rate plan.

Time of DaySummer (June – September)Winter (October – May)
On-Peak: 2 p.m – 8 p.m. (non-holiday weekdays only)35¢25¢
Super Off-Peak: 10 p.m. – 8 a.m. (every day)11¢11¢
Off-Peak: 8 a.m. – 2 p.m. and 8 p.m. – 10 p.m. 18¢14¢
Fixed Charges
Monthly Basic Charge
(This is a flat daily charge that is billed on a monthly basis)
$16
Residential Time-of-Use TOU-D-B* (price/kWh)
*The rate factors shown are effective as of 3/2/2015. Rates are subject to change. Other charges will also appear on the bill.
Notes About This Rate Plan:

  • This rate plan has a higher monthly customer charge, but offers lower kWh pricing as compared to Option A.
  • This rate plan may be more beneficial to customers with usage of more than 700 kWh per month.
  • There are a limited number of enrollments available for this rate plan.

 

Ampster

Active Member
Oct 5, 2012
1,813
501
Kenwood, California
No point for you, but answering a question posted above....take a chill pill dude...

Sorry Smilepak. I posted from my phone and the way it formats on my phone I didn't see the prior post. It is actually a useful rate schedule as it lays out on a computer screen. It fills in some blanks on my spreadsheet.

- - - Updated - - -

Where does SCE show our rates for our Tesla S will go down to 5 cents kwh on super off peak instead of the 11 cents?

It is a pilot program linked above. If I recall it doesn't show up on a search of SCE website. When I ordered my Wattbox from Emotorsports they said the uptake from SCE customers has not been very active. No surprise there if SCE is not plugging it.

Click here for the link.
 
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BrokerDon

Active Member
Aug 23, 2014
1,418
1,348
Newport Coast, CA
It is a pilot program linked above. If I recall it doesn't show up on a search of SCE website. When I ordered my Wattbox from Emotorsports they said the uptake from SCE customers has not been very active. No surprise there if SCE is not plugging it.

Click here for the link.[/QUOTE]

Yes but the linked document you provided clearly states "All PEV submeter usage will be billed on Schedule TOU-EV-1" https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce114-12.pdf which appears to show the following Off-Peak rates:

SCE's TOU-EV-1

Season Service + Generation = Total

Summer: 0.05394 + 0.06651 = 0.11000 ~ 11.0¢

Winter: 0.05394 + 0.06144 = 0.11538 ~ 11.5¢

PLUS a $2.64 "meter charge"

This seems almost identical to SCE's TOU-D-B rates https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce360.pdf

Summer: 0.07417 + 0.04083 = 0.11510 ~ 11.5¢

Winter: 0.07417 + 0.04102 = 0.11519 ~ 11.5¢

Am I missing something?

Where is the 5¢ rate that's been mentioned in this thread?

Don't get me wrong, I really want this to be true and actually ordered my WattBox today and have their recommended electrician ready to install it for free (he's paid by eMotorWerks, the WattBox vendor)
 
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ddimit

Member
It is a pilot program linked above. If I recall it doesn't show up on a search of SCE website. When I ordered my Wattbox from Emotorsports they said the uptake from SCE customers has not been very active. No surprise there if SCE is not plugging it.

Click here for the link.

Yes but the linked document you provided clearly states "All PEV submeter usage will be billed on Schedule TOU-EV-1" https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm/ce114-12.pdf which appears to show the following Off-Peak rates:
2/pdf
SCE's TOU-EV-1

Season Service + Generation = Total

Summer: 0.05394 + 0.06651 = 0.11000 ~ 11.0¢

Winter: 0.05394 + 0.06144 = 0.11538 ~ 11.5¢

PLUS a $2.64 "meter charge"

This seems almost identical to SCE's TOU-D-B rates https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce360.pdf

Summer: 0.07417 + 0.04083 = 0.11510 ~ 11.5¢

Winter: 0.07417 + 0.04102 = 0.11519 ~ 11.5¢

Am I missing something?

Where is the 5¢ rate that's been mentioned in this thread?

Don't get me wrong, I really want this to be true and actually ordered my WattBox today and have their recommended electrician ready to install it for free (he's paid by eMotorWerks, the WattBox vendor)[/QUOTE]


Ok, i'm even more confused I was taking the total listed in rate sheet the next column generation has a subnote that its only for bundled customers, whatever that means. ( i have attached) my current SCE TOU-D-A bill which is even worse to figure out. They totally do this on purpose.

I wonder if base line credit figure into plan too or not.

Im going to have to call them tomorrow to get the answers.


The rate sheet is very misleading


image-0002.jpg


Details of your new charges
Your rate: TOU-D-A-SDP PTR
Billing period: Jun 12 '15 to Jul14 '15 (32 days)
Delivery charges
Basic charge 32 days x $0.03100 $0.99
Your Delivery charges include:
Energy-Summer • $11.47 transmission charges
On peak 215 kWh x $0.11313 $24.32 • $63.89 distribution charges
Off peak 387kWhx$0.11313 $43.78 • $0.26 nuclear decommissioning
Super off peak 332 kWh x $0.06891 $22.88 charges
DWR bond charge 934 kWh x $0.00526 $4.91 • $6.92 public purpose programs
Ale cycling discount -$31.10 charge
Generation charges
• $9.21 new system generation charge
DWR Your Generation charges include:
DWR energy credit 934 kWh x -$0.00172 -$1.61 • -$1.82 competition transition charge
SeE
Energy-Summer
Your overall energy charges include:
On peak 215 kWh x $0.34759 $74.73
• $1.14 franchise fees
Off peak 387 kWh x $0.18015 $69.72
Super off peak 332 kWh x $0.04083 $13.56
Additional information:
Baseline credit 934 kWh x -$0.10347 -$96.64
• Service voltage: 240 volts
Subtotal of your new charges $125.54
Palm Springs UUT $125.54 x 5.00000% $6.28
State tax, 934 kWh)( $0.0..0.029 $0.2]
Your new charges $132,09
Things
 

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Ampster

Active Member
Oct 5, 2012
1,813
501
Kenwood, California
i created an app to help me figure out my charges under the various sce plans and then edited it so anyone can use it: sce

IF you are on a NEM agreement you may not be able to download your usage because their is a glitch in their system that appears to get tripped up by negative numbers. I just tried again and got an error again. This is why the rate analyzer also doesn't work if you are on NEM. It is not the NEM that is screwing up the database it is the negative numbers. This has been a problem that they have know about for six months.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding the $0.05/kWh rate for the pilot program I sent an email to someone at emotorwerks who is shipping the Wattboxes and will post when I get a response. I already ordered the Wattbox and want to get a clear answer or I am sending it back.
 

kglad99

Member
Apr 24, 2015
24
1
orange, ca
@ampster,

so you can't download your data if you produce more than you consume during a given day/hour?

or, you can download your data, but my calculator fails?
 
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