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New stationary grid storage product from Tesla this year

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by ecarfan, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen this mentioned on TMC yet so want to start a new topic about it. Yesterday in the earnings call Elon said this, quote:

    "What we're going to do -- we're going to unveil some of the Tesla home battery or consumer battery that will be for use in people's houses or businesses, fairly soon. We have the design, Ben, and it should start going into production probably in about six months or so. We're trying to figure out a date to have the product unveiling, but it's probably in the next month or two. And it's really great. I am really excited about it."

    I'm pretty excited about this as well. From when I first started paying close attention to Tesla in mid-2013, I have felt that Tesla is an energy storage and management company whose first products are EVs but who would soon move into other products, like what Elon talked about yesterday. Tesla has been making battery storage systems for use with their Superchargers and at the Fremont factory, and also a limited production commercial product for SolarCity to use in conjunction with PV systems (but that got stalled because California utilities did their best to block approvals).

    So this is a new storage product for home and commercial use. Exciting indeed? Will it primarily be designed for peak shaving, or for emergency backup storage, or both? Will it be able to be connected to any new or existing PV system or only with SolarCity installs?
     
  2. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    As you suggest, @ecarfan, the obvious application is pairing storage with PV. While it wouldn't surprise me if the initial rollout were in partnership with SolarCity, I can't think of any reason why Tesla should restrict itself to working with only one installer, albeit the largest installer. Tesla shareholders don't benefit if Tesla helps SolarCity by granting them an exclusive deal. Moreover, lots of people prefer to own, rather than lease, their panels.
     
  3. airj1012

    airj1012 Active Member

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    Tesla Residential Battery Program

    When I originally heard about this on the conference call last night I was not all that surprised. In fact, if you're a Solar City customer, you can purchase a Tesla battery. This program has been around for some time now - Solar Energy Storage for Home Battery Backup System | SolarCity

    So I don't have to re-invite the wheel, re-write what I've written on a TSLA group on Facebook, I'm just going to paste my comments on this topic that I made earlier this AM. My comments are based on the article that was originally link from The Verge - Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil a new kind of battery to power your home | The Verge

    "I would love to continue this conversation on the new Tesla residential battery program, which we'll find out the actually details in about a month or so.

    First of all, after watching some of JB Straubel's talks on YouTube over the past few years, I would not be surprised if Tesla pivots from an automotive manufacturer to focus more on their battery offerings. Maybe they'll split out the business into two separate entities, we'll have to see. Below are two great talks from JB within the past two years. Although both talks are great, I queued up the video to where he specifically talks about the residential and commercial battery opportunities they've been working on. Definitely check out the full video if you have the time, they're worth the time.
    2013 - http://youtu.be/ShJuKTmtHjY?t=19m12s
    2014 - http://youtu.be/zWSox7mLbyE?t=19m20s

    The interesting thing to me about this news, is that it doesn't seem drastically new. As you heard from the talks above, Tesla is already producing residential and commercial batteries. Here is a link to Solar City's residential energy storage offering and as you can see it specifically shows a Tesla battery - http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage

    I'm curious to find out what is different about this new program and the existing program. The existing program is only available for Solar City customers, while I imagine the new program will be opened up to all Tesla owners and most likely others that don't even own a Tesla. The current offering with Solar City allows you to store excess power from your solar panels so that you use cheaper energy during peak hours or even get off the grid entirely. The Verge article believes the new offering would allow a Tesla owner to bring outside power, say free energy from your office, back home to replenish your home battery with any excess power you wouldn't need for the next day. While this is possible, I think the greater impact would be allowing these batteries to "download" off peak energy from your utility and then use the power stored on the battery during peak hours. This way you're always using the cheapest energy possible. JB mentions that this is something their currently doing at certain Supercharger locations -http://youtu.be/zWSox7mLbyE?t=23m52s
    If Tesla is able to offer this on a residential level, I think it could be huge. If this is the residential plan, then there is no reason that non-Tesla owners couldn't be customers of this new opportunity. The limitation would be on the utility side of needing to offer off-peak rates.

    If this is what's coming, along with the Model X and today's recent dip in TSLA; then we could be at a pretty good buying opportunity. What are everyone else's thoughts?"
     
  4. Tyl

    Tyl Member

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    I looked into this two years ago and Tesla could not sell their residential battery storage packs in AZ. I hope things have changed so we can store solar energy at home for use later to charge our Tesla Model S's, run our pool pumps, LED lighting everywhere, waterfall pumps, all all other things home electrical. Heck, I even have battery yard blowers, leaf vacs, and trimmers. When I show people my $18.00 electric bill (I guess that's the costs of reading the meter and posting the bill online) they are amazed!

    It just makes sense!


    I scratch my head when I hear folks still spending money on gasoline, high utility bills, the fuss with tune ups and oil changes etc. with no clue they can save forever with solar.
    Now with residential storage coming online..... oooooyeah! We are moving into George Jetson territory. I'm sure hyperlooping is just around the corner!
     
  5. Torpedo Ted

    Torpedo Ted Member

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    I would rather have the ability to connect my existing car to my home in cases of power outage. Doesn't look like this will become possible? At least not as a retrofit?
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    No Tesla will not be designing the S to allow you to power your house from the car battery. They've stated that won't happen.
     
  7. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    These systems will most certainly be designed primarily for peak shaving. Emergency back-up will likely also be a feature but I would expect that to be optional.
     
  8. zag2me

    zag2me Member

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    I reckon this will be a massive gamechanger in electrical usage around the world.

    Can't wait to see what will be released.
     
  9. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    #9 mibaro2, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    I figure the Residential battery storage program is a no brainer for customers.
    Even if you don't have solar power, you can charge the battery in off-peak hours, and run your house off of it during peak hours.

    I heard from a co-worker that it takes about 7kw to run a house for a day (generally speaking..that number will obviously vary ). So an 85kw battery could run the house for over a week.
    I'm really looking forward to this program, and hope it is offered outside the U.S. also.
     
  10. 1208

    1208 Active Member

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  11. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    I wonder if this might:

    1) Eventually use recycled pack cells - perhaps as a lower-power density tier of product offering/pricing

    2) Use current chemistry/form factor cells as newer tech cells eventually are selected for newer cars and production for them comes online
     
  12. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    #12 scaesare, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    That would be 7 megawatts per hour. No.. not unless your house is a mansion or commercial building.

    Given your subsequent comment that a 85kWh battery would run it for over a week, I suspect you meant 7kWh... and that would be rather low. My house averages ~75kWh a day. While it's not a small house, it's not huge either.
     
  13. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    yes, meant 7kw. Will correct it in post.
    Given your data, I guess the battery pack would be good for one day. But buying the power on offpeak times and storing it still applies.
     
  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    The "public" utilities (in quotes because they don't really serve the public they serve their own interests) will do everything possible to block the widespread adoption of home battery storage that would allow a homeowner to to buy a significant fraction of their electricity at off peak cheap prices and avoid paying for electricity at peak rates.

    In California the utilities made it so difficult for SolarCity to get approval to connect just a 10kW Tesla-made storage battery to a home PV system that SolarCity ended their beta installation program of that battery.

    In any case, batteries are still far too expensive for Tesla to market anything close to an 85kW battery for home storage. Their upcoming product will be far less capacity than that.

    I am very anxious to see the product and hope it is a success. In California Tesla will be aided by the state mandate for a certain amount of grid storage, but the utilities are going to resist every step of the way.
     
  15. iadbound

    iadbound Member

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  16. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

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    #16 dhanson865, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    For another data point vs your house averaging ~75kWh/day my house averages ~30kWh/day (though I don't have an EV yet).

    36 month avg at this house was 925kW/month (11,100kWh/year)
    12 month avg at this house was 930kW/month (11,166kWh/year)

    I expect my non EV usage to continue to drop as I convert from CFL to LED lighting in the house and I plan to add more insulation sometime in the future.

    I expect my EV usage to increase from 0 to non zero sometime this spring. I'm sure that will outweigh my savings on lighting and insulation.

    I want to add solar PV to the mix but I'm not sure when I'll do that as I'm in a state that gets plenty of sun but isn't PV friendly on the laws/rates side.
     
  17. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I think absolutely. Electric utilities are already exploring "banks" of used EV batteries for grid storage.

    If you consider the maximum load for a home with a 100 amp service is about 19 kW and compare that to the amount you pull from your pack when driving, even a very old used pack would have plenty of power available to the home, and the reduced energy available (due to age degradation) could be accounted for by ganging used packs together. I think this is going to be a very big secondary market for used EV batteries.
     
  18. airj1012

    airj1012 Active Member

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    So how do y'all imagine this program will work? What's your thoughts on the speculations?

    Will you be able to transfer power from your car to your battery pack and then power your home. Will this just expand on storing the excess solar power? Will you be able to "download" cheap power during off-peak hours from your utility?

    Interested to see what people's predictions are of the program prior to the announcement. I'm not sure that these news outlets know whats coming...
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    You're confusing power (kW) with energy (kWh). A typical home uses around 600 to 800 kWh per month. The maximum you could ever pull from a 100 amp residential service is about 19 kW but typically peaks around 5 to 10 kW.
     
  20. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Member

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    kWh. kW is a measure of power; kWh is a measure of energy. Here's a quick primer. I think the national average is somewhere around 30-40 kWh/day. My home is 2100 sq ft and is right around 30 kWh/day.
     

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