New Supercharger expansion model?

[wdolson]

that's all well and good, but i intend to take my Model 3 on the long trips.

The wife has a CVT Impreza wagon. Decent gas mileage, but (don't tell her this) absolutely joyless to drive. Gutless on inclines, giant comic book character style mirrors that HOWL at highway speeds and just...meh.

My SO has a CVT Impreza wagon too. It's pretty zippy, though I have read a lot of complaints about it. It appears they got the secret sauce right for the 2013 model year and it wasn't right before or after. Her car gets about 30 mpg, but it doesn't have enough leg room for me on long trips. The Model S is much zippier of course.

 

[Chuq]

My in-laws live in a SC "black hole" dead in the middle of Virginia.

Kind of off topic, but where is this? I don't see a black hole in the middle of Virginia - the most SC-remote location I can find has superchargers about 70 miles away in any direction!

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Kind of off topic, but where is this? I don't see a black hole in the middle of Virginia - the most SC-remote location I can find has superchargers about 70 miles away in any direction!

Between Lynchburg and Richmond along 460. If you were to go Va Beach to Lynchburg, you'd have to go an hour out of your way to stay in SC range. A SC in Farmville offers a more direct and scenic route through the hills. Isn't that the point?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

My SO has a CVT Impreza wagon too. It's pretty zippy, though I have read a lot of complaints about it. It appears they got the secret sauce right for the 2013 model year and it wasn't right before or after. Her car gets about 30 mpg, but it doesn't have enough leg room for me on long trips. The Model S is much zippier of course.

Hers is a 2014. It gets 36 mpg, but otherwise, I'm not in love with it.

 

[timk225]

I fully support the idea of Sheetz installing superchargers, because I live near Pittsburgh, where there are many Sheetz stores. They've been expanding around here a lot in the last few years. So it is good for me. But it won't make a difference until I get my Model 3.

The linked article says that some gas stations aren't happy that EV owners will be there a half hour or so to charge. Well, what do they think these EV people will do during that half hour? Buy food and things in their stores, perhaps? Surely I'm not the only one who is smart enough to figure this out!

I think gasoline is a very low profit margin item anyhow, the stores make their money by getting you inside to buy high profit foods and stuff. I know their game, they don't fool me by claiming "convenience".

 

[cronosx]

Yes, but how many will charge? The point is, if a gasoline car can go in-out in 5 minute, this make in 1h 12 clients, while eletric cars make 2 clients, so of course they aren't confortable since the cost is in the "space", i'm sure they will be happy to serve car with a fill-up time of 5-10 min.

We are of course talking about client per spot, 6 gasoline spot means 12*6 client, 10 electric spot means 10*2 clients per hour

And of course, we don't need to forget that actually only a really small portion of the "possible client" is using an electric car, so the spot will be empty for at least the 80% of the time in average for at least 3-4 years

 

[SW2Fiddler]

And of course, we don't need to forget that actually only a really small portion of the "possible client" is using an electric car, so the spot will be empty for at least the 80% of the time in average for at least 3-4 years

On the other hand, their gas pumps have competition from 100, 200 or more other gas pumps in their area. A Supercharger pulls in AAAALLLLL the Tesla cars coming within a radius of 10+ miles away ...with their touchscreens leading them there.
ALL the Teslas and their drivers. For at least 2 years (until density of L2 and SC gets way more serious)...

 

[cronosx]

On the other hand, their gas pumps have competition from 100, 200 or more other gas pumps in their area. A Supercharger pulls in AAAALLLLL the Tesla cars coming within a radius of 10+ miles away ...with their touchscreens leading them there.
ALL the Teslas and their drivers. For at least 2 years (until density of L2 and SC gets way more serious)...

Yes.. of course.. but then, while an ICE need recharge every 200km ( average.. here in italy some buy 5-10€ of gas at time :/ ), an electric car.. how many time goes to a SC?

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Yes.. of course.. but then, while an ICE need recharge every 200km ( average.. here in italy some buy 5-10€ of gas at time :/ ), while an electric car.. how many time goes to a SC?

Put it in Nacogdoches, Texas, USA. That's smack dab in between the Huntsville TX SC and the Shreveport, Louisiana SC.
But yes, that is a helpful point regarding a decent-range EV. Mine charges in the driveway.

("Smack Dab" is a Southern US unit of accuracy)

 

[survivor]

Between Lynchburg and Richmond along 460. If you were to go Va Beach to Lynchburg, you'd have to go an hour out of your way to stay in SC range. A SC in Farmville offers a more direct and scenic route through the hills. Isn't that the point?

Amen. Here's another example:

I live north of Farmville (Farmvegas), in a fairly rural area outside the western Richmond exurbs, so to speak. Around here roads like US60, US460, US360, US29 are very heavily used. When we travel south towards Georgia to visit family, we take a combination of US 60, US460 and US29 to Greensboro so we can pick up I85. Detouring first to the Burlington, NC SC would not be an issue, but it is about 180 miles from my house to there. That could make it a little iffy in hot or cold weather. This would mean we would probably have to re-route and start by going to South Hill first, which makes a 3 or 3.5 hour trip to Greensboro about 4 or 4.5. Failing that, we would probably have to find a L2 or chademo charger in Lynchburg or somewhere and cross our fingers that it was available/working. Kind of a pain, and this type of thing has held me off from reserving a Model 3.

However, that particular Sheetz in Farmvegas that you are speaking of is about 120 miles from Burlington. Much more manageable. Going that way and taking US360/58 would not add much time to the trip at all. Even better, if I knew there were a few SC locations at the handful of Sheetz locations on US29 on the way to Greensboro I wouldn't even have to re-route and could probably easily make it to the Charlotte SC without having to detour through Burlington.

So this is welcome news to me, and has made me much more likely to jump on board.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Amen. Here's another example:

I live north of Farmville (Farmvegas), in a fairly rural area outside the western Richmond exurbs, so to speak. Around here roads like US60, US460, US360, US29 are very heavily used. When we travel south towards Georgia to visit family, we take a combination of US 60, US460 and US29 to Greensboro so we can pick up I85. Detouring first to the Burlington, NC SC would not be an issue, but it is about 180 miles from my house to there. That could make it a little iffy in hot or cold weather. This would mean we would probably have to re-route and start by going to South Hill first, which makes a 3 or 3.5 hour trip to Greensboro about 4 or 4.5. Failing that, we would probably have to find a L2 or chademo charger in Lynchburg or somewhere and cross our fingers that it was available/working. Kind of a pain, and this type of thing has held me off from reserving a Model 3.

However, that particular Sheetz in Farmvegas that you are speaking of is about 120 miles from Burlington. Much more manageable. Going that way and taking US360/58 would not add much time to the trip at all. Even better, if I knew there were a few SC locations at the handful of Sheetz locations on US29 on the way to Greensboro I wouldn't even have to re-route and could probably easily make it to the Charlotte SC without having to detour through Burlington.

So this is welcome news to me, and has made me much more likely to jump on board.

LOL, FarmVegas. I thought my wife was making that up, but now I have independent confirmation.

I think that one Sheetz in particular opens things up a lot. I'm being a little selfish on this, but it's a perfect example of what Tesla is trying to do with their build-out.

The location would take care of the 460 corridor between Richmond and Lynchburg, east/west, as well as US15 between the C-ville area and the current South Hill SC in the north/south direction.

Remember S and X owners....at some point in the very near future, there are going to be a lot of Teslas on the road that have "only" ~215 real-world miles of range. Filling in these little gaps only helps all of us. People on the smaller batteries will maybe have to use some of these "yucky" options, while you get to stick to the desolate chargers in the back corners of outlet mall parking lots where everything closes at 9.

In the end, I think you'll see more S and X users get over themselves and deign to visit a Sheetz-like setup, because at 2am, I know I'd much prefer a well-lit spot with a restroom and coffee and food.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Here is the area in question.

The green dot is the location of the Sheetz in FarmVegas.

For those not familiar with the area, the altitude slowly rises from East to West, and having that green dot be a fill-in would allow drivers to take a more direct route through central VA, to link back up with the established SC network along I-81.



And to bring this back around to the area I live in.....

could you imagine the possible SC coverage if Tesla signed on with Dunkin Donuts, SpeedWay, or Cumberland Farms?

 

[survivor]

LOL, FarmVegas. I thought my wife was making that up, but now I have independent confirmation.

I think that one Sheetz in particular opens things up a lot. I'm being a little selfish on this, but it's a perfect example of what Tesla is trying to do with their build-out.

The location would take care of the 460 corridor between Richmond and Lynchburg, east/west, as well as US15 between the C-ville area and the current South Hill SC in the north/south direction.

Remember S and X owners....at some point in the very near future, there are going to be a lot of Teslas on the road that have "only" ~215 real-world miles of range. Filling in these little gaps only helps all of us. People on the smaller batteries will maybe have to use some of these "yucky" options, while you get to stick to the desolate chargers in the back corners of outlet mall parking lots where everything closes at 9.

In the end, I think you'll see more S and X users get over themselves and deign to visit a Sheetz-like setup, because at 2am, I know I'd much prefer a well-lit spot with a restroom and coffee and food.

Yes, Farmvegas is definitely a "thing."

Thanks for making the map, that makes it pretty clear. And I forgot about US15, I live pretty close to it. It is a major north/south corridor used by folks in the western DC suburbs/exurbs to get to points south without having to use I95.

We take 460 to get to the Outer Banks (as do a lot of others) rather than 64/664 because they are always parking lots. A SC on 460 on the way would be a no-brainer.

This is just an example, but there are lots of other gaps like that in the US... It makes it very hard to travel to places off the beaten path, so to speak. I think Tesla realizes that partnering will go a long way to help them make their SC density goals by the time the M3 comes out.

They will of course have to continue putting SC locations just off the interstates, and they have lots of work to do there still. The oft-lamented I-10 and I-65 gaps spring to mind. But those plans are obviously in the works.

 

[alseTrick]

The linked article says that some gas stations aren't happy that EV owners will be there a half hour or so to charge. Well, what do they think these EV people will do during that half hour? Buy food and things in their stores, perhaps? Surely I'm not the only one who is smart enough to figure this out!

Right. It was a mindbottlingly poor conclusion the author came to.

If Tesla does this arrangement with gas stations, I hope they become pay per use superchargers that are operated by the gas station (but still serviced by Tesla). That way consumers would get their wish for a pay per use option and Tesla wouldn't have to worry about the over-exaggerated hassle that running a point of sale program would be.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Although there's the "oh no, have to stop at a stinky gas station" thing, I do think it's a good idea.
- Located close to highways
- Long opening hours
- Bathroom
- "Food" and drink
- In low density locations with cheap land the gas stations will likely have enough space to give over to chargers that can be occupied. Low-density locations would be the most difficult places to find suitable sites.

(June 2015 we stopped at a Sheetz in the small town of Tyrone, PA (off I-99) and the lot wasn't crowded.)

 

[diamond.g]

Amen. Here's another example:

I live north of Farmville (Farmvegas), in a fairly rural area outside the western Richmond exurbs, so to speak. Around here roads like US60, US460, US360, US29 are very heavily used. When we travel south towards Georgia to visit family, we take a combination of US 60, US460 and US29 to Greensboro so we can pick up I85. Detouring first to the Burlington, NC SC would not be an issue, but it is about 180 miles from my house to there. That could make it a little iffy in hot or cold weather. This would mean we would probably have to re-route and start by going to South Hill first, which makes a 3 or 3.5 hour trip to Greensboro about 4 or 4.5. Failing that, we would probably have to find a L2 or chademo charger in Lynchburg or somewhere and cross our fingers that it was available/working. Kind of a pain, and this type of thing has held me off from reserving a Model 3.

However, that particular Sheetz in Farmvegas that you are speaking of is about 120 miles from Burlington. Much more manageable. Going that way and taking US360/58 would not add much time to the trip at all. Even better, if I knew there were a few SC locations at the handful of Sheetz locations on US29 on the way to Greensboro I wouldn't even have to re-route and could probably easily make it to the Charlotte SC without having to detour through Burlington.

So this is welcome news to me, and has made me much more likely to jump on board.

Is Lexington too far? I am kind of lucky being in Fredericksburg. Going north or south along 95 puts me pretty close to a SC in either direction.

 

[diamond.g]

Yes, Farmvegas is definitely a "thing."

As is FredVegas and Spotsyltucky...

 

[Red Sage]

I am firmly in the "I'M AGIN' IT" camp on this issue.

I certainly believe it would be nice for Tesla Motors to reduce their financial exposure to Supercharger expansion by partnering with companies that already have a presence in the wide open spaces across the United States, Canada, and Mexico. It is something that could lead to a very beneficial relationship that could grow well into the future. Fact of the matter is that most gas stations in the US make their real profits from sales of beer, tobacco, and convenience items, in addition to the irradiated 'food' products they keep under infrared lamps. The fuel they offer for vehicles is something that Travel Centers of America, Love's, or SHEETZ could possibly be agnostic over. Electricity would be less expensive to provide, and having long range EV Customers that lounge on site a bit longer than ICE drivers may help the bottom line, especially at truck stops.

But...

As others have noted, I would prefer that I didn't have to experience the oil slicks, grime, and fumes that accompany gas stations and truck stops. Those locations would certainly continue to support ICE vehicles for some time to come. I'd rather there were separate locations that catered specifically to electric vehicle travelers -- people using Tesla Motors products.

I imagine these as either Tesla Waypoint locations, with 16-to-20 Supercharger stalls... Or Tesla Depot locations, with 24-to-36 Supercharger stalls. Either way, they would be perhaps every 450-to-600 miles apart along major East/West routes across the US. Each location would have a Tesla Store/Gallery, Service Center, Lounge, Lavatories, WiFi, Food Court, and Convenience items on hand. I figure about 24-to-36 locations would do the trick, at least to start. These would be placed in addition to regular Supercharger locations of 4, 8, or 12 stalls. I figure that as time passed, and battery technology improved range, it would be less necessary to add intermediate Supercharger locations, or expand existing ones. I would love to see sites of this sort begin to appear in 2017, ahead of the Model ☰ launch. Preferably, the restaurants they would partner with would be those that offer Coca-Cola beverages, instead of the PepsiCo variety. And, I'd prefer there weren't any alcohol or tobacco sales either.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I am firmly in the "I'M AGIN' IT" camp on this issue.

I certainly believe it would be nice for Tesla Motors to reduce their financial exposure to Supercharger expansion by partnering with companies that already have a presence in the wide open spaces across the United States, Canada, and Mexico. It is something that could lead to a very beneficial relationship that could grow well into the future. Fact of the matter is that most gas stations in the US make their real profits from sales of beer, tobacco, and convenience items, in addition to the irradiated 'food' products they keep under infrared lamps. The fuel they offer for vehicles is something that Travel Centers of America, Love's, or SHEETZ could possibly be agnostic over. Electricity would be less expensive to provide, and having long range EV Customers that lounge on site a bit longer than ICE drivers may help the bottom line, especially at truck stops.

But...

As others have noted, I would prefer that I didn't have to experience the oil slicks, grime, and fumes that accompany gas stations and truck stops. Those locations would certainly continue to support ICE vehicles for some time to come. I'd rather there were separate locations that catered specifically to electric vehicle travelers -- people using Tesla Motors products.

I imagine these as either Tesla Waypoint locations, with 16-to-20 Supercharger stalls... Or Tesla Depot locations, with 24-to-36 Supercharger stalls. Either way, they would be perhaps every 450-to-600 miles apart along major East/West routes across the US. Each location would have a Tesla Store/Gallery, Service Center, Lounge, Lavatories, WiFi, Food Court, and Convenience items on hand. I figure about 24-to-36 locations would do the trick, at least to start. These would be placed in addition to regular Supercharger locations of 4, 8, or 12 stalls. I figure that as time passed, and battery technology improved range, it would be less necessary to add intermediate Supercharger locations, or expand existing ones. I would love to see sites of this sort begin to appear in 2017, ahead of the Model ☰ launch. Preferably, the restaurants they would partner with would be those that offer Coca-Cola beverages, instead of the PepsiCo variety. And, I'd prefer there weren't any alcohol or tobacco sales either.

not everyone is buying a Tesla to singlehandedly save the world. some of us are perfectly fine dealing with yucky gas stations, especially when you're using them as intended with your Tesla...only on long distance trips.

And not EVERY Supercharger stop is going to be based off the gas station model.

As a community, I don't know if I've ever seen everyone react to the extreme at every new piece of info.

"OMG! They're gonna be yucky"....guess what? they're not replacing the other option!

"OMG! Superchargers are going to be overcrowded"...news of a possible solution leaks... "OMG! They're gonna be yucky"


And you beat your healthy lifestyle drum every time this discussion comes up. Guess which items have a high profit margin in the convenience store retail model? hint: you don't like them.

second hint: you don't have to buy them, but...just as Model 3 owners should learn to appreciate the S and X owners who came before us and subsidized our car.....you might just have to learn to suck up your hatred of unhealthy products, especially if the profits from them subsidize your "cost free" use of the facilities.


/Rant

 

[Red Sage]

Everyone who is of the "ewwwww gross" thinking:

Remember, the Model 3 owners won't all be as adverse to gas stations/rest stops as you.

I wouldn't be so sure. Even the nicest gas stations and truck stops are pretty scuzzy. The ladies behind the counter try their durndest to be be happy, go-lucky, and cheerful... But it's hard not to notice the underlying current of interminable dread they must suffer through on a daily basis.

Some of us have to work for a living you know.....we're used to being around the unwashed masses...heck, some of us may BE the "unwashed"....

Well, everybody around here takes a bath on Saturday... Whether they need one or not!

the whole smug attitude of thumbing your noses at a potential regional or national partner who is willing to help build out Tesla's infrastructure is a bad look for Tesla owners, and an even worse business decision.

I would certainly take advantage of help... While hoping to do something else on my own. Love's has 321 travel stop locations in the US. That includes two in North Dakota, and nine in Arkansas, where Tesla Motors currently has no presence. So, being able to place Superchargers at those locations would certainly be a help.

I would be MORE inclined to stop into a Sheetz if they had a SC. Because I understand that many Sheetz owners are franchisees, who are basically just Mom and Pops who paid for recognizable branding.

That is a great marketing point to pitch the principle -- to SHEETZ, or Exxon, or Chevron, or Shell, or Love's, or TA. I agree. I would be more likely to stop at places that have a Supercharger -- even a Waffle House (yuck) perpetually filled with chain smokers, as they are known to be. I would be much MORE likely to stop at a Tesla branded facility that incidentally also offered J1772, CHAdeMO, and CCS chargers at regular parking spaces.