New Supercharger expansion model?

[survivor]

Yeah I mean I'm thankful that all of the people with more disposable income than me subsidized the design and production of the model 3, gigafactory, etc. but give me a break...

Tesla's long-tem goal isn't to continue to produce boutique cars for provincial nerds and well-to-do environmentalists. It's to make widespread EV usage practical and affordable. Part of the practicality means making fast DC charging ubiquitous. Which means having them at locations that are, uh, undesirable to some.

 

[survivor]

Is Lexington too far? I am kind of lucky being in Fredericksburg. Going north or south along 95 puts me pretty close to a SC in either direction.

Way too far out of the way unfortunately.

 

[Red Sage]

not everyone is buying a Tesla to singlehandedly save the world. some of us are perfectly fine dealing with yucky gas stations, especially when you're using them as intended with your Tesla...only on long distance trips.

And not EVERY Supercharger stop is going to be based off the gas station model.

As a community, I don't know if I've ever seen everyone react to the extreme at every new piece of info.

"OMG! They're gonna be yucky"....guess what? they're not replacing the other option!

"OMG! Superchargers are going to be overcrowded"...news of a possible solution leaks... "OMG! They're gonna be yucky"

A wise cartoon character has been heard to say repeatedly, "I yamz what I yamz!"

Your own characterization of my position on these points is a bit removed from my intent. I believe that the experience of EV driving should be removed from that of ICE driving in order to enhance its benefits. It isn't about being set apart from other people, so much as showing how new and different the overall ownership experience can, and will be, without distractions. It should be a subtle realization that when it comes upon someone brings a smile upon their face. No fumes, no errant spills or leaks or puddles to avoid, no grimy layers of soot, no gum stuck to the pavement, no oily handprints on the door handle, no discarded cans and bottles of beer, or cigarette butts, no need to fish out a credit card for anything unless you actually want to... A healthy, clean, easy 'refueling' experience that confirms you never have to go to a gas station again. Ever. You don't have to 'save the world' -- save yourself the hassle of gas stations -- and life will be... better.

Long before I could even spell the word 'environment' I felt there had to be a way to make cars... 'better'. From the first time I played with a slot car racing set I got for Christmas, I have believed that electric drive was 'better' by default. It is, for me, a spectacular revelation that some 40+ years later, it has been proven that I was right. If being a fan of electric vehicles and Tesla Motors makes me some time of 'cultist' -- I joined when I was six, and Elon Musk was only two. I am absolutely stunned that those scale racers I took apart and examined back then are not indicative of what seemed to be the case then... I was discouraged for some time, thinking that an electric motor would have to be the size of a dynamo at a hydroelectric power station, taking up the entire rear seat and most of the trunk to operate a full-sized car. Later, I learned that the size, shape, and weight of batteries were the problem with electric car design, along with their lack of energy, short range, and lengthy recharge times.

And you beat your healthy lifestyle drum every time this discussion comes up. Guess which items have a high profit margin in the convenience store retail model? hint: you don't like them.

second hint: you don't have to buy them, but...just as Model 3 owners should learn to appreciate the S and X owners who came before us and subsidized our car.....you might just have to learn to suck up your hatred of unhealthy products, especially if the profits from them subsidize your "cost free" use of the facilities.

Something in the general neighborhood of 100% of the people in my life who have been absolute [ICEHOLES] were drinkers and smokers. I vowed as a young child to NOT be like those people. So, no... I don't drink, and I don't smoke. That was long before I learned of the terms 'addiction', 'emphysema', 'lung cancer', and 'alcoholism'. It was a logical decision I came to on my own. And, yes, I pat myself on the back with both hands congratulating myself for making the right choice. Unfortunately, too many in my Family have made the opposite choice. I lost most of my Uncles and my Dad because of their choices to drink and smoke. Several of my older Cousins used both alcohol and tobacco as minors, and moved on to far worse in adulthood.

Life is all about choices and consequences. When you choose to do something, you also choose to suffer the consequences of your actions. I do not believe that life should be 'subsidized' by death, disease, and despair. That said...

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday, for a hamburger today!" -- doth quote yon cartoon character by the name of Wimpy.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I wouldn't be so sure. Even the nicest gas stations and truck stops are pretty scuzzy. The ladies behind the counter try their durndest to be be happy, go-lucky, and cheerful... But it's hard not to notice the underlying current of interminable dread they must suffer through on a daily basis.


Well, everybody around here takes a bath on Saturday... Whether they need one or not!


I would certainly take advantage of help... While hoping to do something else on my own. Love's has 321 travel stop locations in the US. That includes two in North Dakota, and nine in Arkansas, where Tesla Motors currently has no presence. So, being able to place Superchargers at those locations would certainly be a help.


That is a great marketing point to pitch the principle -- to SHEETZ, or Exxon, or Chevron, or Shell, or Love's, or TA. I agree. I would be more likely to stop at places that have a Supercharger -- even a Waffle House (yuck) perpetually filled with chain smokers, as they are known to be. I would be much MORE likely to stop at a Tesla branded facility that incidentally also offered J1772, CHAdeMO, and CCS chargers at regular parking spaces.

if only you could build a wall around poor people....amirite?!?!?

Sorry, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you are that adverse to being around people who are of lesser means, maybe you can just get the smaller battery and not worry about long distance trips.

 

[Red Sage]

So, why not the Highway Safety Rest Areas that run nearly all the national highways? I realize that they can't play favorites with Tesla, but as the picture of the gas station in Needles demonstrates, you can have both SC and DCFC at the same physical stall. (Probably wouldn't want L2 charging, as cars aren't expected to stay that long.)

I don't remember which... Maybe New Jersey, maybe New York, possibly both... That allowed Tesla Motors to install Superchargers at their rest stops -- but they actually required Tesla Motors to also offer alternative methods to charge... I think they installed a Clipper Creek J1772 station as well at each rest stop on the highway, but in different parking stalls.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I don't remember which... Maybe New Jersey, maybe New York, possibly both... That allowed Tesla Motors to install Superchargers at their rest stops -- but they actually required Tesla Motors to also offer alternative methods to charge... I think they installed a Clipper Creek J1772 station as well at each rest stop on the highway, but in different parking stalls.

Both states allowed them in, but I believe NY had the Clipper Creek requirement.

Also, CT allowed them at the southernmost rest stops on 15, just over the NY state line in Greenwich.


Those are at yucky Mobil stations with Dunkin Donuts, Subway, bathrooms, and convenience stores in them. Yuck. lololol


EDIT: I forgot about the ones along I-95. I avoid that stretch of road at all costs....

 

[EV-lutioin]

Since, as part of the dieselgate settlement, VW will be spending a few billion to create a new EV network, it would be in Tesla's best interest to speed up the expansion of its supercharger network in a variety of locations to keep it's competitive edge.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Since, as part of the dieselgate settlement, VW will be spending a few billion to create a new EV network, it would be in Tesla's best interest to speed up the expansion of its supercharger network in a variety of locations to keep it's competitive edge.

As a "green" brand though, VW is starting light years behind. Who would ever trust them again?

and even then, would they be able to match Tesla in style, performance, and charging speed?

Or are they just going to slap some batteries in a Jetta?

 

[Red Sage]

if only you could build a wall around poor people....amirite?!?!?

Sorry, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you are that adverse to being around people who are of lesser means, maybe you can just get the smaller battery and not worry about long distance trips.

Dude. I grew up in probably the single poorest County in the poorest State in the nation. I have no idea why it is that you keep posting as if I am writing from atop a high horse, or at least a fat pig. I have not, and I am not, deriding 'poor people' at all.

Maybe you interpret the word 'scuzzy' as meaning something other than what I do? I am talking about the general condition that I have experienced at gas stations and truck stops everywhere I have been in the United States. They are consistently dirty, and grimy, and have spills and leaks of oil and fuel -- EVERYWHERE.

In the Real World, I am probably the single most sarcastic individual you will ever meet. I may well attempt to be sarcastic in my writing as well rather often. Typically, it is rather obvious, I think. Though, sometimes people get my meaning entirely wrong. This may be one of those situations. One of my Pals once wrote, "Welcome to the limitations of communicating with a keyboard over the internet." Even when I'm sarcastic, I'm typically rather literal.

 

[Bimbels]

Also, CT allowed them at the southernmost rest stops on 15, just over the NY state line in Greenwich.

CT has them along I95 - at the rest areas. Shared with regular gas stations - they are the ones I use for my commute. The rest areas are halfway decent, as rest areas go, since they're new.

I don't mind sharing with gas stations - it's a rest area for all, not just ICE or EV. However, do agree with the eventual idea of having massive Tesla/EV rest areas, with a different vibe.

 

[Red Sage]

As a "green" brand though, VW is starting light years behind. Who would ever trust them again?

and even then, would they be able to match Tesla in style, performance, and charging speed?

Or are they just going to slap some batteries in a Jetta?

Though I know they only did it to make the goal for CARB Compliance, I think that both Volkswagen and Ford should be applauded (even if it's only a 'golf clap') for their efforts with the e-Golf and Focus Electric. The Golf and Focus are among the best selling cars in the world on a perennial basis. They are typically just behind the Toyota Corolla. So, for those two cars to be offered as fully electric does make a bit of a statement. There still isn't a fully electric Corolla, or Honda Civic, or Hyundai Elantra, for instance. But at least Volkswagen and Ford showed it is possible to build a fully electric car that is... normal. Not a weirdmobile. Now, if they can just do it again, only better, at a lower price point, with more range, improved performance, and not limited to CARB States...

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Dude. I grew up in probably the single poorest County in the poorest State in the nation. I have no idea why it is that you keep posting as if I am writing from atop a high horse, or at least a fat pig. I have not, and I am not, deriding 'poor people' at all.

Maybe you interpret the word 'scuzzy' as meaning something other than what I do? I am talking about the general condition that I have experienced at gas stations and truck stops everywhere I have been in the United States. They are consistently dirty, and grimy, and have spills and leaks of oil and fuel -- EVERYWHERE.

In the Real World, I am probably the single most sarcastic individual you will ever meet. I may well attempt to be sarcastic in my writing as well rather often. Typically, it is rather obvious, I think. Though, sometimes people get my meaning entirely wrong. This may be one of those situations. One of my Pals once wrote, "Welcome to the limitations of communicating with a keyboard over the internet." Even when I'm sarcastic, I'm typically rather literal.

well, just keep in mind that the same way everyone is tripping out over this, sounds exactly like the PPU argument we all had a few weeks back.

the gas station expansion model is being used in the best possible way for all of us.

If you're on a long trip, and it's 3am (wife and I like to drive overnight between Boston area and VA....NYC traffic is almost non-existent)....all of the Outlet Mall SC's won't have any amenities available. you COULD stop there and get some electrons and go about your way.

But you've been driving (or at least monitoring how APv2.0 is driving) and you need to stretch your legs, use the restroom, and get some caffeine. Currently, in a Tesla, in a majority of places, that's 2 stops, and some wasted time.

Now, if you need another 80 miles of rated range to hit your next SC, you can do all of the other stuff while you charge.

And as far as the economics side....Tesla finds partners who will do the site surveys, pull the permits, and maybe even hire the install contractors. Instead of the 3-4 regional teams Tesla appears to have doing installs, one location to the next, now you have multiple Superchargers being installed at once. Tesla has promised to double their numbers soon....this is a faster, more efficient way to get them out there.

Who knows....maybe the yucky gas stations offer some sort of discount/rewards program to EV drivers.....

 

[ravejads.tmc]

As a future 60D owner (delivery expected in Early August) I welcome the slow steady drum beat of EV charging stations at current ICE fueling stations.

I can envision a day where there would be a lot full of charging stations and a single gas pump stuck in the back corner of the building for those old timer holdouts. Imagine the headlines when the first gas station removes their last gas pump to make room for another charger. And Jimmy "Turbocharged" Smith at the station will be quoted as saying "It sure it quite around here now that the noisy engines have stopped. I think I'm going to like it this way."

I'm calling the date now, Aug 4th 2024. I'll check back in 8 years to see how close I was

 

[Red Sage]

well, just keep in mind that the same way everyone is tripping out over this, sounds exactly like the PPU argument we all had a few weeks back.

the gas station expansion model is being used in the best possible way for all of us.

If you're on a long trip, and it's 3am (wife and I like to drive overnight between Boston area and VA....NYC traffic is almost non-existent)....all of the Outlet Mall SC's won't have any amenities available. you COULD stop there and get some electrons and go about your way.

But you've been driving (or at least monitoring how APv2.0 is driving) and you need to stretch your legs, use the restroom, and get some caffeine. Currently, in a Tesla, in a majority of places, that's 2 stops, and some wasted time.

Now, if you need another 80 miles of rated range to hit your next SC, you can do all of the other stuff while you charge.

And as far as the economics side....Tesla finds partners who will do the site surveys, pull the permits, and maybe even hire the install contractors. Instead of the 3-4 regional teams Tesla appears to have doing installs, one location to the next, now you have multiple Superchargers being installed at once. Tesla has promised to double their numbers soon....this is a faster, more efficient way to get them out there.

Who knows....maybe the yucky gas stations offer some sort of discount/rewards program to EV drivers.....

That's why the Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations I proposed would be 24 hour locations. That way you always have a place to hit the lavatories or grab a bite to eat while in transit. I just wouldn't want any type of exclusive arrangement with Love's, TA, or SHEETZ that required future Superchargers only be at their locations. It would be COOL to know that every SHEETZ had at least two-to-four Supercharger stalls. I simply prefer a separate experience for the majority of Superchargers. And, I believe that Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations would provide a valuable marketing lever for Tesla Motors, by being a more visible presence on/from major highways. If you'll remember, there are certain Superchargers that are rather 'hidden' and hard to find, even if the latest ones are well lit, once you find them. I look forward to seeing a tower with a brightly lit 'T' emblem shining in the night sky... and it not saying 'TEXACO' underneath.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That's why the Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations I proposed would be 24 hour locations. That way you always have a place to hit the lavatories or grab a bite to eat while in transit. I just wouldn't want any type of exclusive arrangement with Love's, TA, or SHEETZ that required future Superchargers only be at their locations. It would be COOL to know that every SHEETZ had at least two-to-four Supercharger stalls. I simply prefer a separate experience for the majority of Superchargers. And, I believe that Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations would provide a valuable marketing lever for Tesla Motors, by being a more visible presence on/from major highways. If you'll remember, there are certain Superchargers that are rather 'hidden' and hard to find, even if the latest ones are well lit, once you find them. I look forward to seeing a tower with a brightly lit 'T' emblem shining in the night sky... and it not saying 'TEXACO' underneath.

That's probably a few years off...as the S and X funded the 3.....maybe Sheetz will fund Tesla-only stations.

 

[Red Sage]

As a future 60D owner (delivery expected in Early August) I welcome the slow steady drum beat of EV charging stations at current ICE fueling stations.

I can envision a day where there would be a lot full of charging stations and a single gas pump stuck in the back corner of the building for those old timer holdouts. Imagine the headlines when the first gas station removes their last gas pump to make room for another charger. And Jimmy "Turbocharged" Smith at the station will be quoted as saying "It sure it quite around here now that the noisy engines have stopped. I think I'm going to like it this way."

I'm calling the date now, Aug 4th 2024. I'll check back in 8 years to see how close I was

Or, it might look like this instead...?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Or, it might look like this instead...?
View attachment 183334

not if they're smart and sign on now with Tesla....and as other OEM's come up...add stalls for their charging standard of choice as well.

 

[Gilzo]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned on this thread in why choose a gas station may be.....awareness.

Brand EV's at a gas station...brilliant!

 

[Red Sage]

That's probably a few years off...as the S and X funded the 3.....maybe Sheetz will fund Tesla-only stations.

It is very likely that Tesla Motors will dedicate the majority of their budget over the next year or so toward expanding and equipping their operations at Fremont. But, since they are expanding the Supercharger network anyway, they could ultimately make a move toward stand alone facilities as well, to expand their brick and mortar presence with 24-hour Service, Sales, and Supercharging. Such Tesla Waypoint/Depot locations would look great along I-10 and I-20.

 

[Red Sage]

not if they're smart and sign on now with Tesla....and as other OEM's come up...add stalls for their charging standard of choice as well.

I meant the gas stations that don't convert to EV at all. I rather doubt that the lone gas station would end up looking like this instead...