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New Supercharger Fair Use Policy
- Thread starter MP3Mike
- Start date
Nosken
Active Member
When you read the info...the word "may" is used consistently, leaving room for Tesla to interpret and adjust as needed. Since the listed kind of use is contrary to the "long distance travel" intention of SuperChargers.
There are 2 issues this may be attempting to address:
1. This could work to mitigate Supercharger crowding.
2. The listed examples are costly for Tesla in terms of electron delivery. I could see a "pay for use" similar to Model 3 and other Teslas that don’t have free Supercharging.
Reading between the lines, this may mean that Model S and X will still have free Supercharging available after December 31, 2017
There are 2 issues this may be attempting to address:
1. This could work to mitigate Supercharger crowding.
2. The listed examples are costly for Tesla in terms of electron delivery. I could see a "pay for use" similar to Model 3 and other Teslas that don’t have free Supercharging.
Reading between the lines, this may mean that Model S and X will still have free Supercharging available after December 31, 2017
I remember Musk saying that target is for DUs to last for 1 million miles. I don't remember him saying that this target has been achieved. Would be nice to see a quote.
Then there is Tesla Semi for which Musk said it's guaranteed not to break down for one million miles of driving. But that is Semi and year 2019 and we don't know yet what this "guarantee" means.
silverp85+
Member
Never mentioned achievement publicly (that I have read), but the guarantee speaks for itself.
He also never mentioned a 620 mile range battery on a roadster, but he did during the unveiling
No need to read between the lines. The current referral program is scheduled to end January 31, 2018.
They aren't saying that they _can't_ charge using Superchargers, they ask that they don't use Superchargers and give themselves the ability to bar them. Given that the range is sufficient for typical taxi daily use, and given typical traffic patterns, the clear majority of taxis should be able to be to use home-base Level 2 charging for their daily range.
It is _essential_ for electrification that fast-charging miles are minimized. I think that, realistically, we need at least 90% of miles to be home-base Level 2 charging.
Locals private owners are a different and much more difficult challenge because in the places where there are problems there are many local who can't charge at home and would have a legitimate need to use a Supercharger.
The key differences to Tesla are that taxis come in bunches, are high mileage and as businesses that profit from driving should easily be able to resolve access to home-base charging.
I haven't kept up with this, but it looks a little toothless. Like gun control, you can ban all you want, but if the rules aren't or can't be enforced, it is meaningless. Asking someone who uses Superchargers in a commercial environment to stop doing so is a little naive. I guess it gives Tesla permission to ban commercial owners, but they'd have to do a lot of research and data gathering to prove anything.
Maybe a few commercial owners will stop, but mostly I think this is just window-dressing to appease non-commercial owners who think the commercial people are the problem.
Maybe a few commercial owners will stop, but mostly I think this is just window-dressing to appease non-commercial owners who think the commercial people are the problem.
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
This is a great idea. If you are using the car for commercial purposes you should install a charger at your office. If it is for Taxis, they have depots where the cars are serviced, etc, just install a charger. There are big tax credits for commercial use charging system install.
Retail customers shouldn't have to wait for abusive taxis to charge when traveling on a trip. This looks to be a big problem in parts of Europe.
I don't think the intention is to prevent real estate agents or traveling sales people who use a personal vehicle for business purposes. This is to stop Commercial and Taxi & Livery (TLC) plated cars.
Retail customers shouldn't have to wait for abusive taxis to charge when traveling on a trip. This looks to be a big problem in parts of Europe.
I don't think the intention is to prevent real estate agents or traveling sales people who use a personal vehicle for business purposes. This is to stop Commercial and Taxi & Livery (TLC) plated cars.
I don't think Real Estate agents are considered a commercial use as they are not charging their clients per ride to make money.
I see a lot of livery drivers at supercharging stations, especially near LAX and San Diego at Qualcomm (Tesloop). When I travel to San Jose (SJC), I see a number of Uber drivers coming through to pick up passengers.
However, I think there could be a beneficial business model for both parties to have some sort business supercharging account and/or fee-based commercial use supercharging stations (near airports).
I don't think you read the policy.
Tesla's Teeth said:
The policy will finally allow Tesla to shut off Supercharger access from anyone using it for commercial purposes, whether free or not free, but it leaves it discretionary to allow for reasonable use such as in the event of an outage, or exceptional travel.
I realize it will allow them to do it, but what will enable them to do it? There may be a dozen users in a handful of Superchargers that they can identify as violators. The random Uber driver or delivery guy? I don't see them being able to identify that reliably, and differentiate from the apartment-dwelling owner on his daily commute.
I don't know maybe they can identify them by any car with an Uber or Lyft sticker in the window that hooks up to a Supercharger is being used for commercial purposes?
I was not aware that Superchargers could read window stickers.
I guess if they set up cameras and had somebody checking as each person charges? I doubt that will work. Owners tattling on abusers? Good deal, now I can report that guy who didn't park straight as a commercial vehicle and get his SC privileges revoked.
No, I think they'll use patterns in the data, and that will be less than ideal.
sammyfan711
Member
A couple of comments:
- I think this re-think in policy really signals finally the abandonment of the free Supercharging idea. It was hubris and marketing in the first place. While the Model S/X still have that block of free credits available, I expect to see even that go away eventually. Superchargers, like all chargers, will eventually become a business. This is completely understandable and OK for new cars sold, of course.
- Which brings me to my second point. I am surprised Tesla feels they can enforce this policy on used cars not sold by Tesla. I can understand CPOs and new Teslas, fair enough, but I am not sure I'm buying the idea that taking this away from cars sold with unlimited free Supercharging passes the muster.
- Tesla says they will offer solutions to commerical ventures separately, which I assume are either private Supercharger builds (already done) or contracts with financial terms.
- Finally, I am surprised Tesla did this now. We all know they deliver most of their cars at the end of a quarter. Doing this now could limit their deliveries this quarter if someone displeased declines. I would have found new orders more understandable than existing orders too, given that this info was not available at time of order and deposit. Changing terms in middle feels less OK.
- I think this re-think in policy really signals finally the abandonment of the free Supercharging idea. It was hubris and marketing in the first place. While the Model S/X still have that block of free credits available, I expect to see even that go away eventually. Superchargers, like all chargers, will eventually become a business. This is completely understandable and OK for new cars sold, of course.
- Which brings me to my second point. I am surprised Tesla feels they can enforce this policy on used cars not sold by Tesla. I can understand CPOs and new Teslas, fair enough, but I am not sure I'm buying the idea that taking this away from cars sold with unlimited free Supercharging passes the muster.
- Tesla says they will offer solutions to commerical ventures separately, which I assume are either private Supercharger builds (already done) or contracts with financial terms.
- Finally, I am surprised Tesla did this now. We all know they deliver most of their cars at the end of a quarter. Doing this now could limit their deliveries this quarter if someone displeased declines. I would have found new orders more understandable than existing orders too, given that this info was not available at time of order and deposit. Changing terms in middle feels less OK.
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Sure, I'm well are of Tesloop.
FWIW, besides being in the Bay Area in the past year, I've been to Vegas, London, Berlin, Munich, Stuttgart, NYC, nearby NJ, Tokyo (and some somewhat nearby cities), Seoul, Singapore, Los Angeles area (city of and communities in LA county; drove there and back for a funeral and sightseeing) and my comment still stands.
Outside the US, it's rare to even see a Tesla at all. Heck, in Tokyo trip less than 2 months ago and my previous Japan trip where I went across maybe 1/2 the Japanese mainland by train (Nagasaki all the way back to Tokyo), I don't recall spotting a single Tesla. And, even though it's supposedly a strong EV market, spotting any EVs on the road in Japan is pretty rare. This is totally different than what I see in the Bay Area.
I've driven home one time where my Leaf was 1 amongst 5 going the same direction on the expressway, all visible from each other. We have over a dozen Teslas at my work, lots of Leafs, e-Golfs, and lots of PHEVs like Volts. On my street, there are at least 2 other Leafs, at least 1 e-Golf (was 1 more until the occupants moved away) and another e-Golf visible from my house on a connecting street. On that connected street, there are at least 2-3 Leafs.
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As someone who only bought "unlimited" free Supercharging solely on the basis it would impact residuals after seeing the writing on the wall for it's phasing out (the Elon letters to "abusers").
I Specifically asked:
a) is it transferable
b) without specific restrictions
I ensured I backed this up with an email chain to prove as much, I'd love to see Tesla try to retrospectively revoke it.
FWIW I think this change is a great step forward, Tesla should never have offered such an open ended contract in the first place without a fair usage policy.
However there are a huge backlog of cars they can't apply this to.
I Specifically asked:
a) is it transferable
b) without specific restrictions
I ensured I backed this up with an email chain to prove as much, I'd love to see Tesla try to retrospectively revoke it.
FWIW I think this change is a great step forward, Tesla should never have offered such an open ended contract in the first place without a fair usage policy.
However there are a huge backlog of cars they can't apply this to.
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