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New Supercharger Locations

Pluto

is a Planet
Nov 17, 2015
410
690
Auburn, AL
I recommend driving slower. I sometimes drive as slow as 55-60mph on a 70mph speed limit and it reduces my energy usage by a full 20% (increased range by 25%). I totally get not doing this on a 2 lane road or if you have passengers though.
 

Derek Kessler

Active Member
Apr 15, 2016
1,193
1,806
Cincinnati
I am not sure whether it is still true because Tesla is starting to charge customers power usage so why can't it share the revenue to the landowner too?
Because that revenue is small and inconsequential compared to the potential retail traffic from high income individuals stuck on site for 30-60 minutes.
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,171
4,161
Central Valley
In the old days, Tesla would take care of all of the supercharger cost such as permits, constructions, power usage... but it does not pay for parking space/land usage fee/lease.

I am not sure whether it is still true because Tesla is starting to charge customers power usage so why can't it share the revenue to the landowner too?

I am not sure whether sites back in the day were completely rent-free to Tesla. (You may be right; I am just not sure.) Malls and other commercial properties that have multiple tenants are charged not only the rent on a square-foot basis for the real estate that is leased, they are also charged CAM rent. CAM is common area maintenance. This rent covers the common areas, obviously, including the electricity for night lighting, landscaping, security, parking lot striping and maintenance, and whatever else is bundled into the services the landlord provides for all tenants.

The grocery store business traditionally pays a base rent plus a rental override if sales exceed a certain dollar amount. But by and large restaurants, small shops, and the like that are at these Supercharger stops do not pay additional rents based upon sales. Their rents are fixed per their lease agreement.

I believe that Tesla has enough clout and popularity nowadays to be able to get parking spots assigned without any sort of ground rent as charging will attract customers to patronize the surrounding businesses. Tesla might still be on the hook, however, for a nominal amount of CAM charges due to the parking lot usage and some of the inconsiderate drivers who litter and otherwise destroy the landscaping near the stalls.

Bob in accounting :D says that to create a trail to have some sort of revenue sharing with landowners for Supercharger fees would not be worth the cost to allocate a relatively small amount of money. Much easier to pay a fixed CAM fee if that is the way these leases are structured.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,944
7,726
Visalia, CA
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gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
I guess I'm having trouble seeing how there aren't several places you could supercharge along your trip from South Carolina to Frederick. There seem to be at least a dozen different routes into Virginia, and then two main routes up to Frederick (see map below). You're saying that NONE of those superchargers are along your route? Even just a little bit out of your way to make your stay in Frederick charge free? And then on your way out of town, stop at Hagerstown or Gaithersburg?
Maybe because I'm not starting in South Carolina. I'm starting in central Virginia. I could go up Rt 95 and the DC beltway, but that is literally the worst traffic in the US. I avoid that route like the black plague.

When I first got my Tesla, I did a road trip from CT to Dayton, OH. Back then, there was no supercharging route through Pennsylvania (now there are several). I had to drive from Connecticut south to Newark, DE, north west to Hagerstown, MD, then to Somerset, PA, then really far north to Cranberry, PA, then west again. I actually had to plan to stop at an RV park in Zanesville to charge between Cranberry and Columbus (where there were only HPWC at the mall), but one week before my trip, a SC opened up at Wheeling/Triadelphia, WV which was like a godsend so I could avoid the RV park stop all together.
I get that it was different in the "old" days. Most companies making electric cars also make ICE powered cars. Tesla doesn't. They *have* to make battery electric vehicles (BEV) mainstream or they won't survive. They reached profitability with volume production of the model 3. Now they have to continue to ramp up production and SALES in order to find the cash to fund the other projects and the next BEV car. That means acceptance has to continue to grow which means charging has to stop being a problem. No more bleeding edge when it comes to charging!

It's called the 'bleeding edge' for a reason. Until there's a charger in Frederick, it sure seems like there are lots of super charging options for you if you could be a little bit flexible in your planning and convictions. It's not that there aren't options for you, you're just choosing (for whatever reason) not to use them.
Uh... not so much really. Before you can solve a problem you have to understand it. You assumed wrong and so aren't trying to solve the real problem which isn't even this particular trip. I am not trying to solve the single problem of my trip from central Virginia to Frederick, MD only. My original post was asking how I can influence the installation of new Superchargers and destination chargers.
 
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Skipdd

Supporting Member
Dec 30, 2015
681
572
Silver Spring, MD
Maybe because I'm not starting in South Carolina. I'm starting in central Virginia. I could go up Rt 95 and the DC beltway, but that is literally the worst traffic in the US. I avoid that route like the black plague.


I get that it was different in the "old" days. Most companies making electric cars also make ICE powered cars. Tesla doesn't. They *have* to make battery electric vehicles (BEV) mainstream or they won't survive. They reached profitability with volume production of the model 3. Now they have to continue to ramp up production and SALES in order to find the cash to fund the other projects and the next BEV car. That means acceptance has to continue to grow which means charging has to stop being a problem. No more bleeding edge when it comes to charging!


Uh... not so much really. Before you can solve a problem you have to understand it. You assumed wrong and so aren't trying to solve the real problem which isn't even this particular trip. I am not trying to solve the single problem of my trip from central Virginia to Frederick, MD only. My original post was asking how I can influence the installation of new Superchargers and destination chargers.

Convince 500 people in Frederick or nearby (10 mile radius from Frederick) to buy a Tesla:). Find a local or nearby establishment whose customer profile fits typical Tesla owners and pitch them on a Destination Charger. Or,...you change - either your perspective or your car.

I had the reverse issue for several years visiting family in Myrtle Beach several times a year, including during winter. Driving there before the SC was there and before Fayettville, Chester were there, before the 100D. Found a hotel with a destination charger, and watched my speed on the way down and back and used the energy app to groom my driving based on weather.
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
The vast majority of locations for Tesla destination charging are hotels, for use by their guests. Hotels participate to attract customers. You said you stay at a friend’s house, so I don’t understand how this would be helpful to you. Other less common locations are vineyards and restaurants that attract business from a wide area, such as the former Peter Pan Inn in Frederick that I remember going to as a child. I miss their corn fritters!

I and many others here have asked hotel managers to participating Tesla’s destination charging program, with mixed success, and there’s certainly a need for that in Frederick so I hope you’re successful at it. But I don’t know what other property owners you think might be interested in paying for electricity for people who park there, and why those locations would be more convenient for you than the J1772s and CHAdeMO that already exist.

Last night I tried using the Chademo charger in a Frederick in a nice shopping center where the car would be largely charged by the time we were done eating. Unfortunately the durn charger just won't work with my car. I was told "it works with some cars and not with others".

Destination chargers may not be as fast as a Chademo, but they are a lot cheaper and can be a lot faster than J-1772. I think they show up at more than just hotels. They show up at dining facilities and shopping centers. I'd love to get Costco to put in a few. I spend at least an hour when I go there. If I can put on 50 miles while I shop, I'm much more likely to go there than another vendor. I'd like to ask for destination chargers around the Wegman's on the north end of town. Literally every shopping center should have a couple. I'd love to have one at the Homewood retirement home where my friend stays, but that might be a hard sell.

I will mention I have not yet found a hotel that didn't want you to use the chargers. They even give you a wifi password if you ask nicely.
 
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TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,647
8,482
Austin, TX
You still don’t get it. Costco and Wegman’s and similar stores have no interest in installing Tesla destination charging. They don’t need to pay for electricity to attract customers to shop there. At best they’ll install J1772s as a convenience, with a network such as ChargePoint to bill for the electricity used.
 
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ReddyLeaf

Active Member
Mar 19, 2014
1,721
2,982
WA State
....I don't see any way I can influence an installation of Superchargers in Frederick, but I think I can have an impact on destination charging by contacting various property owners. Tesla seems to have a web page where you can inquire about this. So there is a path forward.
You can contact [email protected] with the location,, email, phone, person, pictures, maps, etc. Even better is to contact the decision makers at the location and make your case that their business will benefit from having higher wealth individuals captured for 30-60 min at their business. I have personally influenced two destination charging locations and suggested many SC locations. What seems to work best is to have a decent conversation with the decision maker, maybe even walking down the possible charging locations. It’s not perfect (I’m at less than 30% total and near 50% when I talked to a decision maker), but it’s better than nothing.
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
You could use their dryer plug depending on how open they are to plugging things in. Some people are resistant to that, and for good reason: it can be a hassle, and dangerous if the wiring is bad or an extension cord is used (I own a dryer plug extension cord, and I learned to reduce its amps to lower than the NEC maximum for safety reasons).
dryer outlets are not very facile often. Typically they are remote and often dont have the right connector. BUT AS i have mentioned, this is not about my particular issues..THIS A HAVING INPUYT TOO THE CHARGER LOCATION SELECTION PROCESS.Sorry for the caps. im typing this on the car and the browser makes the text invisible while typingg. im not going to retype this even though i have an hour while i wait for 50 miles of charge on the destination charger..
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
You can contact [email protected] with the location,, email, phone, person, pictures, maps, etc. Even better is to contact the decision makers at the location and make your case that their business will benefit from having higher wealth individuals captured for 30-60 min at their business. I have personally influenced two destination charging locations and suggested many SC locations. What seems to work best is to have a decent conversation with the decision maker, maybe even walking down the possible charging locations. It’s not perfect (I’m at less than 30% total and near 50% when I talked to a decision maker), but it’s better than nothing.
Thank you. The first positive reply regarding my question. I will email that contact. :)
 

ReddyLeaf

Active Member
Mar 19, 2014
1,721
2,982
WA State
Thank you. The first positive reply regarding my question. I will email that contact. :)
You’re welcome. Try smaller businesses where you can actually speak with owners. The larger malls and chains often do such deals at the corporate level, so all you can do is pass information to Tesla and hope for the best. Also, check out the SC locations. Tesla has placed SCs at Hilton, Holiday Inn, etc. hotels as well as grocery and restaurants. Good luck, it isn’t easy. Even once a good location is found and the owners agree, Tesla still must get through the permit process, which isn’t easy. The electric revolution is coming, but not everyone agrees.
 

Chuq

Active Member
Jan 1, 2015
3,331
4,013
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Looks to me like there are more superchargers in Melborn than Frederick, >1 to 0. Am Iwrong?

The 4.4 million population of Melbourne has a single six-stall supercharger and nothing else within 65 miles in any direction.

The 80,000 population of Frederick has 13 supercharger locations, with a total of 112 stalls, in the same coverage area. More than enough to enable long distance travel in and out of the area.

I'm not sure how the mindset that superchargers are the only place you can charge a Tesla became so common?
 

bnaysrl

Member
Nov 24, 2018
9
0
The Woodlands, TEXAS
I don't know anything about how Tesla chooses or finances Supercharger installations. Do they ask the location owner to pay any of the installation? Will they install units at the request of the location owner if the owner pays for it?

I'm asking because a location which could sorely use a charger is a common stomping ground for me. I often drive up to Frederick, MD and have no real means of charging once there other than slow J-1772 units and one Chademo charger which was busy last time I needed it and no way to reach the car owner when the charge finished. My other alternatives are some destination chargers in Leesburg on my way back, but even that is slow for trip charging and not walkable to any shopping or whatever.

If I understood a bit about how Tesla gets Superchargers installed I might be able to encourage a merchant or two to get behind this. Tesla has had a Supercharger on the "future" map since I've been watching. I'd put in a wall connector in Frederick someplace useful but I expect it is expensive, likely over $1000 or maybe $1500 by the time it is installed. Even more if an outside cable has to be run.

Where may I sign up for an email or SMS feed of "Just Opened" Supercharger locations. Used to get that in 2015-16.
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
The 4.4 million population of Melbourne has a single six-stall supercharger and nothing else within 65 miles in any direction.

The 80,000 population of Frederick has 13 supercharger locations, with a total of 112 stalls, in the same coverage area. More than enough to enable long distance travel in and out of the area.

I'm not sure how the mindset that superchargers are the only place you can charge a Tesla became so common?

No, Superchargers are not the only way to charge a car. They are the only practical way to charge a BEV when on a trip. For example, last night I needed to drive 120 miles to get home from Frederick. The highways by Washington DC were clogged showing even more delays than normal. So they were out. The route I usually travel has a single location with destination chargers in Leesburg. So I stopped. Normally I can get the full 72 amps, 208 volts (not a proper 240 volt circuit, rather two taps from a three phase circuit) giving some 15 kW. Far below the 100+ kW of a Supercharger, but more than twice as fast as the 30 amp, J-1772 chargers otherwise available widely. Unfortunately there was already a car charging so I was only getting half which was about the same as a J-1772 at this point. After a bit a third car pulled up and charged, so now I'm sitting in my car in the cold rain waiting an unknown amount of time for a top off so I can complete my trip home. Fortunately the third car drove off after awhile and eventually the first car completed it's charge and I got the full 72 amps. Still, I went inside to sit in the little lobby and have a cup of coffee while I waited. In the end I got home after 10 PM with only 14 miles on the car. Not a great way to travel.

Had there been a Supercharger in Frederick, Leesburg, Gainsville or even Warrenton, I could have spent 15 minutes adding 70 miles and been on my way. Clearly I wasn't alone in my need, hence the three cars charging at the destination charger. Last night was a miserable time to drive. Tonight will be the end of a holiday weekend. I hate to think how crowded the chargers will be.

Anyone who thinks destination chargers are for anything other than destination charging are masochists.

Still, this thread is not about the value of destination charging vs. Supercharging. It is about how to influence the installation of chargers.
 
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HankLloydRight

No Roads
Jan 18, 2014
12,999
11,038
Connecticut
. For example, last night I needed to drive 120 miles to get home from Frederick. The highways by Washington DC were clogged showing even more delays than normal. So they were out. The route I usually travel has a single location with destination chargers in Leesburg. So I stopped....

Since you had a bad experience here last night, and it may be a while until any new SC are built closer to Frederick, what would your trip have been like if instead you drove 25 minutes northwest to Hagerstown, and supercharged there for 20 or 30 minutes, then drove home? Better, worse, or the same? How about hassle factor?
 
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gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Since you had a bad experience here last night, and it may be a while until any new SC are built closer to Frederick, what would your trip have been like if instead you drove 25 minutes northwest to Hagerstown, and supercharged there for 20 or 30 minutes, then drove home? Better, worse, or the same? How about hassle factor?
Hard to say for sure. It would have been about the same amount of time perhaps IF the roads were calm. But I didn't take the main highway south because those roads were jammed. I have been reading today that this weekend has been a real test for the chargers because of the holiday.

I didn't notice the traffic to the north. I've never been to that charger as it is off my beaten path mostly. But you have a good point that it may have worked out. Given that I spent over an hour at a destination charger partly because of the charger congestion, who knows if backtracking for an hour would have been an improvement or not?
 

mociaf9

Active Member
Oct 18, 2018
2,758
5,616
CA
Piecing together a few of your comments it sounds like you're maybe living in the Charlottesville, VA area and driving mostly US-15 to Frederick, MD and back. If so then you should be comforted by the current construction of the Supercharger in Haymarket, VA which is right along your route and once up and running (hopefully by year's end) will likely enable you to drive your round-trip route even in the deep cold without having to worry about a detour of more than maybe 500 feet.

Frederick will come eventually. @ReddyLeaf already gave you the only concrete information that's likely to do much for helping you reach out to Tesla. My only other suggestion for an option would be to go to the other superchargers in the area, find out who owns the property and try to get ahold of them. Ask them how they got hooked up with Tesla and if they have contact info for whomever their interface was and attempt a direct message. But I would still class that as pretty low likelihood of success.
 
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