New Supercharger Locations

[israndy]

Can't even drive a Tesla across North Dakota. I am trying to get to Minot, or more specifically Winkler MB, the factory for my favorite RV

-Randy

 

[gnuarm]

It simply is true. Notice how I said "in many parts of the country". Try driving a car with CHAdeMO in the Rocky Mountain and Plains states. If you remove the "Coming Soon" chargers from the map shown below, you really can't drive a non-Tesla electric car on a road trip across North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon, etc.

I think if you check a bit it is very hard to drive a Tesla in those same areas other than on the exact routes where the Superchargers are. I'm not sure what your point is.

I bought a Tesla simply because they support charging as if it actually mattered to the customers... that and I could get a car with nearly 300 mile range even though this turned out to not be strictly correct. By the time all issues are factored in drives between chargers typically are limited to about 220 miles unless you want to impact battery life or risk running out of charge.

I could make any trip in a Bolt that I have made in my model X. I would have spent a TON of time charging. But then my friend has declined to go on a trip in my X because she doesn't want to wait around chargers all day instead of stopping once for gas. It's all relative.

 

[TexasEV]

I bought a Tesla simply because they support charging as if it actually mattered to the customers... that and I could get a car with nearly 300 mile range even though this turned out to not be strictly correct. By the time all issues are factored in drives between chargers typically are limited to about 220 miles unless you want to impact battery life or risk running out of charge.

Once again, charging to 100% is not going to impact battery life when used appropriately. You’re not Tesloop, supercharging to 100% several times per day, 365 days/ year. Don’t be concerned about charging to 100% before a trip. Model S owners have been doing it for years with no ill effect, meaning typical range loss. The car is going to lose a few percent of range regardless. Even if it lost an additional couple of miles after five years, if that really would affect your use then you bought the wrong car. Why buy a P if range is such an issue?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I think if you check a bit it is very hard to drive a Tesla in those same areas other than on the exact routes where the Superchargers are. I'm not sure what your point is.

I bought a Tesla simply because they support charging as if it actually mattered to the customers... that and I could get a car with nearly 300 mile range even though this turned out to not be strictly correct. By the time all issues are factored in drives between chargers typically are limited to about 220 miles unless you want to impact battery life or risk running out of charge.

I could make any trip in a Bolt that I have made in my model X. I would have spent a TON of time charging. But then my friend has declined to go on a trip in my X because she doesn't want to wait around chargers all day instead of stopping once for gas. It's all relative.

My point is that CHAdeMO doesn't currently allow you to travel in ~15 states west of the Mississippi. I can easily travel through most of those states in a Tesla. As I mentioned in previous posts, only Teslas can currently do road trips across these states. Yes, even Teslas might have problems in some states but non-Teslas wouldn't be able to go more than 100 to 200 miles before being stuck and needing to charge overnight.

I challenge you to drive a Bolt on some of the trips I've easily done in the west with my Teslas. There's no way you could make it in a reasonable time as there's not sufficient CCS or CHAdeMO coverage. If you're up for the challenge, I'll even pay for the Bolt rental...but I won't pay for your time because it would take you days or weeks to do what I could do in hours or days in a Tesla.

Many of my road trips have been off the interstates. Having a larger capacity battery allowed me to drive south from Custer, SD across western Nebraska to I-80 and then east on I-80 for hundreds of miles without any problems. I just checked several routes on A Better Routeplanner that I've done in my Tesla and simulated a Bolt. It couldn't handle any of them because there are no CHAdeMO or CCS chargers on those routes.

 

[Barklikeadog]

You are assuming the guy could charge at night. I've discussed the utility of BEVs with a number of people in a number of different groups and there are times when people literally have no place to charge. Apartment dwellers have not accessible outlets. Town home owners can't string a cord across the walk way even if their parking spots were actually in front of their homes. So right there is a fairly large percentage of potential BEV owners who just plain can't charge at home.

BEVs simply can't become mainstream until there is adequate charging for all owners. Some of that will be charging where you travel locally. That doesn't require Superchargers, but destination chargers or even the lowly J-1772 helps put back on the juice it took to get there. Not only does this seem doable to me, it seems to be necessary ultimately. The corner gas station approach won't be viable with electric cars requiring even just 20 minutes to charge something useful. It will need to be a more diffuse distribution existing in the many places we go every day. Home is great, but work, shop and play are also needed.

With the continuing ramp up of the model 3, I am worried about the current charging facilities becoming overloaded making longer distance travel difficult.

You are preaching to the choir here. Anytime someone calls out 'death to ICE' I feel the need to point out how nearly half the drivers out there do not have a place to charge at night. How many millions of cars are parallel parked in cities, where you end up in a different spot every day? In Philly, you can't put in a sidewalk charger if you wanted to, they won't permit them. People didn't like the idea of wealthy guy paying 8k to get their own reserved spot on the street. Landlords are not going to suddenly pay to put in charging... because they don't need to. And this situation isn't going to change in 5, 10 or 20 years. Philly would have to spend billions(that they don't have) to add enough chargers to satisfy the auto population. ICE is going to be around for a while. Not everyone has a two car garage.

 

[gnuarm]

My point is that CHAdeMO doesn't currently allow you to travel in ~15 states west of the Mississippi. I can easily travel through most of those states in a Tesla. As I mentioned in previous posts, only Teslas can currently do road trips across these states. Yes, even Teslas might have problems in some states but non-Teslas wouldn't be able to go more than 100 to 200 miles before being stuck and needing to charge overnight.

I challenge you to drive a Bolt on some of the trips I've easily done in the west with my Teslas. There's no way you could make it in a reasonable time as there's not sufficient CCS or CHAdeMO coverage. If you're up for the challenge, I'll even pay for the Bolt rental...but I won't pay for your time because it would take you days or weeks to do what I could do in hours or days in a Tesla.

Many of my road trips have been off the interstates. Having a larger capacity battery allowed me to drive south from Custer, SD across western Nebraska to I-80 and then east on I-80 for hundreds of miles without any problems. I just checked several routes on A Better Routeplanner that I've done in my Tesla and simulated a Bolt. It couldn't handle any of them because there are no CHAdeMO or CCS chargers on those routes.

Your comments started with a reply to my statement about the types of merchants installing J-1772 type chargers. I concede that some places in the country won't have many non-Tesla BEVs spending the night. That doesn't change the situation for the other 35 states where >95% of the population live.

Digging out the paucity of chargers in states where less than 1% of the US population live is not really very relevant. Is it? What am I missing?

We all agree that the charging infrastructure needs to be augmented continually. With the large number of BEVs being manufactured now charging demand will grow, perhaps exponentially. I have always said (with "always" meaning the last year) that "it's about the charging, stupid". GM and the other BEV companies have waited too long to act on that simple fact and so will be behind the power curve for the foreseeable future (for values of "foreseeable" up to 5 years).

 

[gnuarm]

You are preaching to the choir here. Anytime someone calls out 'death to ICE' I feel the need to point out how nearly half the drivers out there do not have a place to charge at night. How many millions of cars are parallel parked in cities, where you end up in a different spot every day? In Philly, you can't put in a sidewalk charger if you wanted to, they won't permit them. People didn't like the idea of wealthy guy paying 8k to get their own reserved spot on the street. Landlords are not going to suddenly pay to put in charging... because they don't need to. And this situation isn't going to change in 5, 10 or 20 years. Philly would have to spend billions(that they don't have) to add enough chargers to satisfy the auto population. ICE is going to be around for a while. Not everyone has a two car garage.

I agree that there is no way for home charging to become universal overnight. I don't share your pessimism that 10 years from now we will be in the same situation and certainly in 20 years it will be a very different world for BEVs. I think cities such as Philadelphia will come 'round and realize they need to find a way to install electric outlets for BEV use. Over the next 10 years more than 50% of the cars on the road today will be retired. A significant percentage of those will be replaced with BEVs. In 20 years BEVs will be the norm. Reality will dictate what happens with charging, not the current crop of politicians or economic concerns.