New supercharging Nav method is BS

[airborne spoon]

Anyone notice how the navigation seems to be making you use less superchargers lately? Like my normal long trips i use like 3 or 4 chargers along my way and i know where they are so i don't usually use the nav.

I have taken a couple of trips down to the LA basin recently and i needed the nav SC routing since i didn't know where TF i was going, and instead of the old normal way of stopping at a SC for like 15 min and rolling out it wants me to stay at 1 SC for 55 min (which due to chargegate means closer to 1.5 hours)

So now i have to put my overall trip in and see the route then pich a few chargers along the way and nav to them one at a time, its really a pain in the ass that they changed this method of charging especially for my P85D. I mean i get 120kW when i charge but the drop off curve looks like the stock market in the great depression just steep as hell like 128kW at 4% and then by 10% im down to 95kW and by 30% im down to like 69kW. o with this steep curve and it going slow AF super fast charging at a higher percentage than like 40% is annoying and takes forever so it's faster to make my trip using several chargers, yes i did the maths i in a 4 hr trip yesterday i saved about 40 minutes by using 3 chargers instead of just one.

 

[aesculus]

That's crazy. It would be way less impact for them to have people sip many times than gulp (gasp?) for hours at fewer stops.

Me thinks the Tesla engineers don't have much exposure to optimization algorithms.

 

[krsgio]

about a month ago I drove from Denver to Naples, FL and used ABRP instead of the nav that wanted me to do long charges in my gimped P85D as well. I could tell the people using the Tesla nav recommended charge times vs my ABRP short sprints at more chargers but when they would end up at the same charger as me I was typically 10-15 min ahead charging when they arrived which grew through the day. obviously not scientific due to driving speeds and other variables but for the 6 or so hours I came across them from DEN to MO we were pretty much seeing each other at the same locations. They were in a 75D pre-refresh. Not exactly ideal to do more stops but it did seem to be more 'efficient' especially when my car recommended charging 75%+ and my charging speed was down to maybe 20kwh I'd rather drive and make an extra stop at a lower SoC then wait for an extra 30 min for it to crawl 10-15%. Maybe in worse weather conditions I wouldnt make the same gamble but the car charging recommendations are surely based for the 3/Y charging speeds it seems.

 

[Greengolfer]

A lot depends on how you want to travel. If you want to get from point A to point B as fast as possible, extra short stops will save you time. I like to drive all the way to between 10 and 15 percent, then stop for a meal. Then continue to my destination. I am older so I tend to limit my daily driving on a trip to 400-420 miles. I have a 2014 P85 that charges to ~245 miles at 100%. If I were to try to get as far as possible in a single day, I would definitely charge more frequently and for a much shorter time.

 

[airborne spoon]

A lot depends on how you want to travel. If you want to get from point A to point B as fast as possible, extra short stops will save you time. I like to drive all the way to between 10 and 15 percent, then stop for a meal. Then continue to my destination. I am older so I tend to limit my daily driving on a trip to 400-420 miles. I have a 2014 P85 that charges to ~245 miles at 100%. If I were to try to get as far as possible in a single day, I would definitely charge more frequently and for a much shorter time.

Yes we all have different ways of travel that's not my point.
On the old route planner if you wanted extra charge at one SC you'd stay there and it would reroute you to skip a charger that was no longer needed. Now it says only use this one charger and sit there forever while the car gets a damn near full charge and then drive to your destination. Its a bitch, the point of the built in trip planner is to make my life easier but now i have to pick out my SC and select them one at a time as the destination. i don't want to use my phone because its a waste of my data to use ABRP and i have this big ass screen map built into the car with a nav unit in it.

 

[MrTuna]

This should just be a toggle in route planner right? Minimize stops or minimize charge time. Both are reasonable, but now it’s forcing minimize stops.

 

[krsgio]

i don't want to use my phone because its a waste of my data to use ABRP and i have this big ass screen map built into the car with a nav unit in it.

one of the perks of upgrading to mcu2 is now my browser works so I can use ABRP on there.

 

[ucmndd]

now it’s forcing minimize stops.

Why do people think this is a change? It’s always been this way in my experience.

 

[airborne spoon]

Why do people think this is a change? It’s always been this way in my experience.

Naw Elon even said back in the day about how several quick stops along your long trip is better because of how it charges faster at lower %.
And as i said the nav system has changed because before if i was driving to say long beach it would tell me to stop 2 or 3 times depending on my initial charge %. but now it wants me to stop once about 70 miles from my house and sit there for 1.5 hours to charge to damn near 100% and then roll out to long beach. It makes no sense and is really freaking stupid especially when there are like a zillion SC along the way as i get closer to the LA area.

 

[ucmndd]

Naw Elon even said back in the day about how several quick stops along your long trip is better because of how it charges faster at lower %.

Of course, this is generally how I travel. I’ve just never observed the nav routing me by this principle. It’s always chosen stupid, long stops for as long as I can remember.

 

[ElectricTravel]

Yes, I've noticed the same thing, though I seem to think it's always been that way.

I wonder if Tesla thinks they're going to scare off new users if they show a lot of stops: "I have to stop 4 times? I only stopped once for gas in my old car!" I agree that it would be helpful to have a setting to let the user choose.

The short answer here is to use A Better Routeplanner for longer trips, as alluded to be the original poster. I've used it a lot for long trips to unfamiliar locations, and it's very helpful.

I get the main plan from A Better Route Planner in advance, then use the car's navigation to navigate me from one supercharger to another.

 

[dark cloud]

That's crazy. It would be way less impact for them to have people sip many times than gulp (gasp?) for hours at fewer stops.

Me thinks the Tesla engineers don't have much exposure to optimization algorithms.

I think part of the problem is that these engineers will always be themselves using new vehicles, model 3's or Y's, and every change they implement, whether ergonomics, software, UI, and in this case possible navigation charging waypoints, are based on the profiles of that newer tech.

 

[KSG-P85DL+]

Gimped P85D owner here. I concur on adding 50% more time to the estimated time to get a realistic estimation.

 

[SO16]

Sounds like a good setting to add.

Prefer fewer stops (yes/no)

 

[dark cloud]

Sounds like a good setting to add.

Prefer fewer stops (yes/no)

I haven't done any significant road trips (yet), typically I repeat the same drives, so not hugely familiar as many others with using navigation, but I recall the nav doing that before; it would put a button on the trip suggesting "remove charging stops". (However, I don't recall ever seeing an option to add an extra stop. )

Has this changed?

 

[bob_p]

Any changes to the supercharging algorithm may be optimized for the newer vehicles that can charge faster than the older S/X models.

Since charging is much faster when charge is below 50%, it makes sense to discharge as much of the pack as possible before stopping - and then avoiding doing much charging above 80%, when charging starts to slow down (and really crawls above 90%). As long as there are available superchargers on the route ahead - it's better to stop charge around 80% and plan to hit the next supercharger than sitting much longer at the current supercharger (and preventing that charger from being used by another vehicle that will charge faster).

We haven't done any long distance trips in the past year (COVID), so we haven't experienced supercharging changes ourselves - hopefully later this year, things will get back to normal, and we'll take some long distance trips - and see what has changed...

 

[Need]

I don't think this is something "new"? I think the Tesla's nav had been working this way for years. I have a '17 Model X 75D, and by now it only has about 190 miles range at 90%. I can get close to 190 miles in the summer but in the winter cold morning, it would be closer to 150 miles range (I drive like 80mph on the freeway). If I go round trip in Greater Los Angeles area, it could easily go over 150 miles. I don't remember it ever suggested multiple stops on the way back. I think the idea is to charge enough to get you to your destination. And it is actually a good thing in LA considering that some of the chargers are super congested. The last thing you want is that you have to charge 10 min at the 2nd charger but it has a line 20 cars long waiting.

On a trip outside of LA, I use abetterrouteplanner like others. But usually I don't do the 2/3 stops thing... I just pick one that has restaurants around and eat lunch (option LONG STOP HERE).

 

[airborne spoon]

I don't think this is something "new"? I think the Tesla's nav had been working this way for years. I have a '17 Model X 75D, and by now it only has about 190 miles range at 90%. I can get close to 190 miles in the summer but in the winter cold morning, it would be closer to 150 miles range (I drive like 80mph on the freeway). If I go round trip in Greater Los Angeles area, it could easily go over 150 miles. I don't remember it ever suggested multiple stops on the way back. I think the idea is to charge enough to get you to your destination. And it is actually a good thing in LA considering that some of the chargers are super congested. The last thing you want is that you have to charge 10 min at the 2nd charger but it has a line 20 cars long waiting.

On a trip outside of LA, I use abetterrouteplanner like others. But usually I don't do the 2/3 stops thing... I just pick one that has restaurants around and eat lunch (option LONG STOP HERE).

It has changed, before when i would go to tustin it would have me stop at barstow, fontana and anaheim hills. Sometimes it would skip barstow if i was at 90% when i leave the house otherwise i'd have to stop. now it says stop in Hesperia forever if i'm at 90% or barstow then hesperia. but it always tells me to stop in hesperia for an hour which as i said translates to 1.5 hours.
I have an appt at the SC on the 22nd for the charge port door error that everyone is getting so maybe i'll bring it up to them and see if it can be sent up the line that its freaking retarded.

 

[ucmndd]

It has changed, before when i would go to tustin it would have me stop at barstow, fontana and anaheim hills. Sometimes it would skip barstow if i was at 90% when i leave the house otherwise i'd have to stop. now it says stop in Hesperia forever if i'm at 90% or barstow then hesperia. but it always tells me to stop in hesperia for an hour which as i said translates to 1.5 hours.
I have an appt at the SC on the 22nd for the charge port door error that everyone is getting so maybe i'll bring it up to them and see if it can be sent up the line that its freaking retarded.

I think the "change" is likely due to new supercharger stations opening on the route (Hesperia opened in November) and the same dumb algorithm arriving at a different conclusion.

Like I said, it's always been this way. I agree with others suggesting that it's by design. A preference switch to minimize time OR minimize stops would be nice. There are valid reasons for preferring both.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

Any changes to the supercharging algorithm may be optimized for the newer vehicles that can charge faster than the older S/X models.

Since charging is much faster when charge is below 50%, it makes sense to discharge as much of the pack as possible before stopping - and then avoiding doing much charging above 80%, when charging starts to slow down (and really crawls above 90%). As long as there are available superchargers on the route ahead - it's better to stop charge around 80% and plan to hit the next supercharger than sitting much longer at the current supercharger (and preventing that charger from being used by another vehicle that will charge faster).

We haven't done any long distance trips in the past year (COVID), so we haven't experienced supercharging changes ourselves - hopefully later this year, things will get back to normal, and we'll take some long distance trips - and see what has changed...

yes....once you reach the "tapering off position" stop charging and proceed on your route to the next charger is you are on one trip