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New Supercharging Taper Protecting Battery?

Greg29

Member
Apr 26, 2019
98
51
Orlando, FL
It seems commonly accepted that frequent supercharging increases battery degradation. With the recent software updates seemingly increasing the taper of charge rates downward is there any thought this lessens the degradation impact of supercharging? If so, any evidence to support this?
 

Lasttoy

Active Member
Mar 24, 2017
1,620
957
St Augustine, Fl
On my chart from Teslafi , my degradation has gone straight down since sw update. I just went on trip this weekend, supercharging takes a lot longer and starts a lot lower. I have a record of every supercharging for 3 years. I used to start at 115 to 125kw, and charge up in 30 minutes. Now I'm lucky to start at 80 go down to 30kw fast and take hour or more. Everyone says it depends on state of charge when we plug in? I go up and down 95 a lot, I really notice the slowness now.
I read this weekend there was a class action suit about this situation since last update. Google it.
 

maximizese

Member
Jan 16, 2018
489
478
California
I don't think anyone knows for certain what is going on or why. Many have observed shortened range and longer Supercharging sessions (slower rates and sharper taper) shortly after a Tesla MS battery fire in China and Belgium in May of 2019. Tesla mentioned faster charging times with V2 stalls going from 120kW to 150kW, but many 85kW pack owners noticed both a lower voltage maximum capacity, lower Supercharging speeds, and the taper starts earlier relative to before the software update.

Some have speculated that Tesla feared potential battery fires and decided to restrict the battery capacity and charging rate, while some think Tesla fears being liable for battery replacements under warranty. I'd like to know the truth as it is discovered but I definitely feel out of the loop.
 

BerTX

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 2, 2014
3,505
3,647
Texas/Washington
On my chart from Teslafi , my degradation has gone straight down since sw update. I just went on trip this weekend, supercharging takes a lot longer and starts a lot lower. I have a record of every supercharging for 3 years. I used to start at 115 to 125kw, and charge up in 30 minutes. Now I'm lucky to start at 80 go down to 30kw fast and take hour or more. Everyone says it depends on state of charge when we plug in? I go up and down 95 a lot, I really notice the slowness now.
I read this weekend there was a class action suit about this situation since last update. Google it.
Do you have a reference regarding a class action suit about charging rate? The only one I have heard of specifically targets the reduction in battery capacity/range. It does not include reduced charging rate.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,271
6,230
Merced, CA
It seems commonly accepted that frequent supercharging increases battery degradation.

Actually I thought it was commonly accepted from available fleet data that supercharging does NOT promote faster battery degradation despite Tesla's claim that it would.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,097
Phoenix, AZ
Do you have a reference regarding a class action suit about charging rate? The only one I have heard of specifically targets the reduction in battery capacity/range. It does not include reduced charging rate.
Are you sure? I thought reduction in battery charge rate was part of the claims in the class action suit.
 

BerTX

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 2, 2014
3,505
3,647
Texas/Washington
Are you sure? I thought reduction in battery charge rate was part of the claims in the class action suit.
No, I'm not sure. There is so much back-and-forth on this I can't keep up. I thought it was thought to be two different issues with two different battery chemistries, so they are not related. Maybe the heavy-handed style of the "solutions" is common enough to lump them together.

But to answer your question, no I'm not sure.
 

Tesomega

Member
Sep 28, 2017
348
236
Pittsburg, CA
Actually I thought it was commonly accepted from available fleet data that supercharging does NOT promote faster battery degradation despite Tesla's claim that it would.
It absolutely does !. Its very much visible when go on long road trips and if you have device to look at your raw data (scamytesla).
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,245
4,407
Central Valley
No, I'm not sure. There is so much back-and-forth on this I can't keep up. I thought it was thought to be two different issues with two different battery chemistries, so they are not related. Maybe the heavy-handed style of the "solutions" is common enough to lump them together.

But to answer your question, no I'm not sure.

Find the complaint and read it. It is online. I believe there are nineteen claims listed in it. Significantly reduced Supercharging speeds is among the causes for at least one of the claims against Tesla.
 

SSlectric

Member
Jan 3, 2019
6
4
Carson CA
I don't think anyone knows for certain what is going on or why. Many have observed shortened range and longer Supercharging sessions (slower rates and sharper taper) shortly after a Tesla MS battery fire in China and Belgium in May of 2019. Tesla mentioned faster charging times with V2 stalls going from 120kW to 150kW, but many 85kW pack owners noticed both a lower voltage maximum capacity, lower Supercharging speeds, and the taper starts earlier relative to before the software update.

Some have speculated that Tesla feared potential battery fires and decided to restrict the battery capacity and charging rate, while some think Tesla fears being liable for battery replacements under warranty. I'd like to know the truth as it is discovered but I definitely feel out of the loop.
On my chart from Teslafi , my degradation has gone straight down since sw update. I just went on trip this weekend, supercharging takes a lot longer and starts a lot lower. I have a record of every supercharging for 3 years. I used to start at 115 to 125kw, and charge up in 30 minutes. Now I'm lucky to start at 80 go down to 30kw fast and take hour or more. Everyone says it depends on state of charge when we plug in? I go up and down 95 a lot, I really notice the slowness now.
I read this weekend there was a class action suit about this situation since last update. Google it.

There is another LONG thread on the issue of Tesla throttling the max available SC rate for owners of S70/75 and S90 vehicles in order to protect the longevity of their batteries (a "feature"):
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging
 

TSLC

Member
Oct 1, 2017
63
61
Utah
It seems commonly accepted that frequent supercharging increases battery degradation. With the recent software updates seemingly increasing the taper of charge rates downward is there any thought this lessens the degradation impact of supercharging? If so, any evidence to support this?

What S variant do you have?
 

TSLC

Member
Oct 1, 2017
63
61
Utah
I have a S75

The 350V 75 variants, will be permanently voltage throttled over time based on the amount of energy supplied to the pack via DC fast charging on a specific counter in the software. The “feature” typically activates at approximately 2500 kWh of DC fast charging applied via Supercharging or other alternatives. It then continues until reaching a maximum derated state and appears to currently drop no further.

Your peak charge at all Superchargers on a maximum derated pack will not exceed 80-82 kW reaching this maximum between 40 and 50% SoC and will then taper very quickly beyond 60%.
 
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