TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

New Tesla Factory Location(s)

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by AudubonB, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    Denali Highway, Alaska
    This thread is devoted to news of, ideas for and speculation about new production sites for Tesla Motors.

    Earlier today, French Ecology Minister Ségolène Royal made waves by announcing that she is proposing offering to Tesla the site of France's oldest nuclear power plant. This is in Fessenheim, in Alsace.

    The idea has an awful lot going for it. Among other points -

    *France has announced the nuke will be closed. This has caused a great deal of unrest in the strong labor groups associated with the French electric utility EDF - it employs 850 plus 250 contract employees. A Tesla factory would generate far more jobs than this.

    *The plant is directly on the Rhine River, across the border from Germany. More precisely, it is on one of western Europe's industrial arteries: the Grand Alsace Canal; the ancient river and national border is a bit to the west...and at the edge of the nuke plant's Exclusion Zone.

    * When Mr Musk was in France at the beginning of the year, he remarked in what seemed to be off-the-cuff fashion, "Maybe we should build it (a European plant) in Alsace - half in Germany, half in France" (my recollection, NOT his exact words).

    * Located slightly north of the Swiss border of these two countries, one could hardly place a pin more directly in the center of western Europe than southern Alsace.

    * As the location has the transmission lines for its generated electricity, AND the canal's water, AND the barge shipping traffic on site, AND the E25 (Rotterdam<--->Genoa) and Autobahn 5, it is unexcelled in its infrastructure.

    * By my calculations from Google Maps, the site with its Exclusion Zone extends approximately one km west of the plant itself, one km to the east of the canal to the German border, one km to the south along the canal and two km north along the canal, for a total of approximately 6 square kilometers or 1,500 acres. PLENTY big enough not just for a new plant but also would allow room to build simultaneously with the decommissioning and dismantling of the nuke. Satellite map here: (took too long to load - you'll have to find it yourselves....)


    So far, all the news references I've come across have been in French, but these should be translatable -
    Fessenheim : Ségolène Royal suggère la mutation de la centrale en usine de voitures électriques Tesla

    The view from Switzerland. Since Fukushima, theSwiss have repeatedly asked France to close the nuclear plant:
    Ségolène Royal veut transformer Fessenheim en usine de voitures Tesla

    Fessenheim : Ségolène Royal suggère la mutation de la centrale en usine de voitures électriques Tesla - France 3 Alsace
    Tesla à Fessenheim : l'inattendu coup de com' de Ségolène Royal

    Royal's formal title is Ministère de l'Écologie, du Développement durable et de l’Énergie; this puts her third in line in the French government, after the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
  2. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,007
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    Too bad they're closing the nuclear plant...can you imagine how fast those Superchargers would be? ;-)

    Looks ideally suited to serve the EU...I would think China will get a plant as well.
     
  3. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    I would think for cost reasons, it might not be in Western Europe. Maybe Poland or Slovakia...or this would be especially poetic, considering it was Tesla's birthplace...Serbia or Croatia. China is a sure bet. I think it would be cool if a factory was set up in South Africa, Musk's birthplace.
     
  4. Muaddid

    Muaddid Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I think the incensitive package, infrastructure and the amount of people that can buy the cars in a country in Western Europe will offset the low-cost labor & property of Eastern Europe...

    India vs China is the big question for the 2nd/3rd factory i think
     
  5. Tdriver

    Tdriver Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    Palm Desert, CA
    Nuclear plants take several years to dismantle and billions of dollars.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,890
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    Is this statement based on your opinion as an arm-chair nuclear engineer or do you have some type of fact or experience to back it up? I'm genuinely interested. It has been pointed out that a nuclear facility often has a large footprint, of which the reactor is just a small part. Also, once the nuclear material is moved off site why would it be so difficult to dismantle?
     
  7. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    Denali Highway, Alaska
    If I were TM's location scout/negotiator, I'm sure high on my priorities would be to ensure EDF/Gov't of France is the one tasked with the dismantling of the nuke plant. And as far as Tdriver's "several years" - as I wrote in my initial bullet points, this site is huge - lots of room to place a teeny little 5mm square foot factory away from the current plant. I've still had no luck implanting the hi-res Google Earth pic of the site.

    I also am sure that there are going to be some battles-royal over site selection. Champions of this site, of one in Belgium, of expanding the Tilburg, NL plant; I think there was a Luxembourg possibility; Germany almost certainly has a location or two to toss in the ring - it will be of consummate interest watching what sort of incentives are proffered.

    And that is regarding just western Europe. World's a bit bigger than that, sources tell me.
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,376
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I am thinking the next Tesla factory will be in the southeast US close to a major shipping port.
     
  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    In France? Hmm... my perception of France is that they're forever buried in labour strife. I rather suspect that Tesla would think very very hard before setting up there. I imagine that Germany is more appealing, if for no other reason than that Germans don't like to buy things that aren't made in Germany.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,890
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    This perception has some actual roots in reality.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. LST

    LST Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Exactly this.
    My take as a Swiss who lived and worked in France and hired Frenchmen to work in Switzerland: The protection of the workers is incredible in France. The maximum allowed workload per week is 35 hrs. It's almost impossible to fire workers and they have very strong unions and a population who is willing to go on strike to protect their privileges (early retirement, pensions funds, vacations, job protection et. al).

    Many administrations tried to losen up these laws and failed miserably, forced down by strikes.
    Look where the french economy is now.. it speaks for itself.

    I would strongly advise not to go there..as high as other incentives may be. I guess like others said, Germany or one of the more easterly European countries might be worth a try (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Kroatia or others) labour cost are way lower there, skilled workers maybe more difficult to find. A lot of Swiss industries had to go that way (to escape the crisis due to the sky high local currency)and are doing fine. (As an example for production in Poland: Stadler Rail).
     
    • Like x 2
  12. Cattledog

    Cattledog Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,708
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    A 30 some-odd hour work week would also be at odds with Tesla culture - 30 hour weekends sound more the norm.
     
    • Funny x 4
  13. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    That's what I had thought. The benefits associated with a little bit of free land are pretty much negligible. They're succeeding in California because the SV culture provides large numbers of people with a powerful work ethic. They're not going to locate in a jurisdiction that is the antithesis of what made them successful.

    My money is on Germany.
     
  14. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,890
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
  15. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Slovakia has lately become a carmaking hotspot. VWAG has a large plant there, and Jaguar Land Rover has announced they're going to build a factory there as well. Logistically, it's close to Germany and Austria, two large automotive supplier bases. My money's on Slovakia.
     
  16. YoungStranger

    YoungStranger Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Telford UK
    Certainly won't be the UK if we leave the EU. If for some reason the UK is chosen, I would like to suggest my hometown Telford!
     
  17. PaulusdB

    PaulusdB Mayor Gnomus Vintage Limb

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,098
    Location:
    Europe
    First time I stumble upon a PIMBY (Please, In My Backyard).
     
    • Funny x 1
  18. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    Denali Highway, Alaska
    But you're going to have to change that to a PIMFY ;)
     
  19. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,283
    Location:
    California
    Well, that's a serious problem right there.
     
  20. Seesaw

    Seesaw Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Online
    #20 Seesaw, Apr 6, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
    I suspect Slovakia, China and a second U.S. Vehicle plant.


    Another option because I'm a local is Australia: close to South East. Asia, largest supplier of Lithium in the world, and a GM and Toyota plant will be available next year when they cease production.
     

Share This Page