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New Tesla Model X Long Range should change it's name.

Seattle Tom

Member
Mar 31, 2016
511
534
Seattle, WA
Somehow we got off topic to urologists and road trip bathrooms, but I’ll just chime in that I agree with the OP on holding off for now. Don’t get me wrong - I love that new interior, and I suspect there are other improvements we haven’t really seen or understood yet. Tesla always has a few surprises waiting for us. But I would have expected the X to break the 400 mile range barrier and the S to get up to 420 (get it?) or even more in the non-Plaid mode.

I suspect as you do that this is a “90D” battery that is making the range based on aerodynamic, weight, and tire improvements.

I’m going to wait for the first reviews to see what folks think...then there’s a chance I’ll buy one, but my 2017 X with upgraded MCU still feels like new to me. And that 500 mile Tri-motor Cybertruck isn’t THAT far away. :)
 
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elguapo

Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
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Maryland
Somehow we got off topic to urologists and road trip bathrooms, but I’ll just chime in that I agree with the OP on holding off for now. Don’t get me wrong - I love that new interior, and I suspect there are other improvements we haven’t really seen or understood yet. Tesla always has a few surprises waiting for us. But I would have expected the X to break the 400 mile range barrier and the S to get up to 420 (get it?) or even more in the non-Plaid mode.

I suspect as you do that this is a “90D” battery that is making the range based on aerodynamic, weight, and tire improvements.

I’m going to wait for the first reviews to see what folks think...then there’s a chance I’ll buy one, but my 2017 X with upgraded MCU still feels like new to me. And that 500 mile Tri-motor Cybertruck isn’t THAT far away. :)
Yes, would love 420 be the target for the S or X! And yes, I get it.

Seems like the S only being at 412 post refresh is also disappointing. My sense is we are 12 months away from X breaking 400. We shall see.

Heck, we may be 4-6 months away from actually seeing a refreshed X!
 

127.0.0.0

Member
Aug 20, 2018
293
160
California
I have the long range booked instead of plaid only reason I took long range still it gets more range and less money. If plaid had more range I would happily spend another 30k but at this time its like you take a range hit and pay 30k

Also did think about the Plaid+ But Love the falcon wing doors.
 

BM3B

“beaver”
Mar 8, 2019
772
920
Los Angeles, CA
I’m not as concerned about the batteries being the old physical dimensions but yeah agree on the pack size. If true, they will definitely release a 100 again in a few months or a year and early adopters will be unhappy again.
I think the new X battery pack has fewer cells but is back to the 2019 100D capacity. My Sep 2020 X LR++ with rated 371 mile range has an estimated physical size of 105 kWh according to my tests. 101 kWh charging capacity plus 4 kWh buffer. My view is it’s not 90D, but the previous version was 105D. I want to get an emblem with 105D, that would be cool.
 

Richbot

Member
Oct 16, 2020
287
190
STL
I think the new X battery pack has fewer cells but is back to the 2019 100D capacity. My Sep 2020 X LR++ with rated 371 mile range has an estimated physical size of 105 kWh according to my tests. 101 kWh charging capacity plus 4 kWh buffer. My view is it’s not 90D, but the previous version was 105D. I want to get an emblem with 105D, that would be cool.
I have the H battery in mine too and I think that lines up with my math, but my math could be wrong

Also, consumption (hallelujah, screw you winter) is back down into the "this car could plausibly do 400 miles on a charge if I keep speed below 55mph" in good weather. I'm not really exaggerating either, at 60mph steady it's like 250 wh/mi. In Tesla world this sucks, but in 7 seat family sled world, holy crap that's good

I think Cybertruck is further away than we think. Like, a year or more.
 
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VikH

Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,026
858
Midwest, USA
My bladder won't last more than 3 hours. It is the limiting factor, not the car's range.

These cars do not last 3 hours driving at highway speeds in weather below 40F. Just did a 400 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2017 MX P100DL where I had to stop 4 times to charge and trip took 8 hours. It should take 6 hours to drive non-stop.

Supercharging can be slow and most superchargers across America are V2. I don't see Tesla upgrading and expanding these to V3 anytime soon. Therefore, we need more range to account for cold weather loss.

I have done between 15-20 road trips in my Model X. The novelty of stopping to charge and relax/eat wears off after a while.
 

Richbot

Member
Oct 16, 2020
287
190
STL
V3 is great if you arrive below 25% SoC or so, above that and you're really only getting the benefits for a few minutes. Great for a final-push top-up to home if you're 100 miles out and only need 60-70 miles added, not so great if it's just another leg on the trip

Range is still king when you can't add range at a rate higher than about 100 miles per 30 minutes

That said, I sincerely doubt the Long Range will have worse real-world range than the LR+"+" did. It's a lighter, more aerodynamic car with a heat pump. The only way it's going to ahve worse range is if the driver drives it off a bridge in frustration after the lack of stalks finally makes him decide to commit insurance fraud :p
 
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elguapo

Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
1,075
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Maryland
V3 is great if you arrive below 25% SoC or so, above that and you're really only getting the benefits for a few minutes. Great for a final-push top-up to home if you're 100 miles out and only need 60-70 miles added, not so great if it's just another leg on the trip

Range is still king when you can't add range at a rate higher than about 100 miles per 30 minutes

That said, I sincerely doubt the Long Range will have worse real-world range than the LR+"+" did. It's a lighter, more aerodynamic car with a heat pump. The only way it's going to ahve worse range is if the driver drives it off a bridge in frustration after the lack of stalks finally makes him decide to commit insurance fraud :p
Or if it has a smaller battery pack than the old LR. My bet is it’s a 90kwh in there.
 
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BM3B

“beaver”
Mar 8, 2019
772
920
Los Angeles, CA
I did some math. Assuming -H and -I packs have the same cell format and chemistry (is the new version confirmed yet? No deliveries yet so no battery sticker pics, we will have to wait), and assuming the same Wh/mile efficiency, then Tesla could reach 360 mile range by removing 250 cells which weigh an estimated 25 lbs. the weight dropped over 100 lb so likely the rest is due to lighter interior and maybe drivetrain components. If efficiency is higher for the refreshed X then they could remove even more cells. At $200 per kWh cell cost the fewer cells can save over $1,000.
 
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elguapo

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Apr 24, 2013
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So maybe it’s an 85 in there. Whatever it is, I bet it costs them less than the current/old X packs. Why would they not use better chemistry and cells to increase range?
 
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Richbot

Member
Oct 16, 2020
287
190
STL
No way that rear motor is lighter making more than 2x the power. I think they found weight in the battery, I think the octovalve system is probably lighter than what it’s replacing, and I think you’ve probably got some interior weight out
 
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BM3B

“beaver”
Mar 8, 2019
772
920
Los Angeles, CA
No way that rear motor is lighter making more than 2x the power. I think they found weight in the battery, I think the octovalve system is probably lighter than what it’s replacing, and I think you’ve probably got some interior weight out
Agree, but why 2x? Any links? Horspower has gone up from 500 to 670 HP, rear motor putting out 400 of that versus 275 before?

TeslaFi recorded max 421 kW power in my X, which is about 560 HP, but that’s at the battery I think. There should be about 10% loss to the wheel I estimate based on efficiency under high load.
 

DelPhonic1

Member
Mar 20, 2020
132
129
Burbank
There is a another rumor that the Plaid battery pack is fashioned for the 4680, but without the 4680 cells yet. A smaller pack filled with less 18650's than the Raven maybe? Hmmmm..
 
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Richbot

Member
Oct 16, 2020
287
190
STL
Agree, but why 2x? Any links? Horspower has gone up from 500 to 670 HP, rear motor putting out 400 of that versus 275 before?

TeslaFi recorded max 421 kW power in my X, which is about 560 HP, but that’s at the battery I think. There should be about 10% loss to the wheel I estimate based on efficiency under high load.

Pre-LCI/Raven "Slow"/Whatever you want to call it has a 205kw front switched reluctance (model 3 rear motor) and 193kw rear induction (small) motor (the smallest motor they've ever put in anything IIRC?), so you're right, it's only 1.5x heh. You can really tell the front motor is driving the bus most of the time in the way the car drives I think.
 
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elguapo

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Apr 24, 2013
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Maryland
The tech speak is beyond me, but can anyone explain why Tesla had to reduce the X range? I know we are all guessing, it just seems like a dumb move and one they would avoid if they could.

That said, it’s still MUCH more than any “competitor”...
 
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127.0.0.0

Member
Aug 20, 2018
293
160
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I really wish the Model X had a bit more range wonder though still why they choose to stick with 18650 battery For the flagship rather than at-least the 2170 My understanding was 2170 are better so why not updated chem for those and put in flagship model like s/x long range..
 
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VikH

Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,026
858
Midwest, USA
The tech speak is beyond me, but can anyone explain why Tesla had to reduce the X range? I know we are all guessing, it just seems like a dumb move and one they would avoid if they could.

That said, it’s still MUCH more than any “competitor”...

Regarding range of the refreshed Model X, my bet is they changed the underbody of the car to accept the future 4680 pack when ready. They had to create a new 18650 pack that would fit in the 4680 pack space. This results in a smaller 18650 pack and less range (even with the heat pump).
 
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MP3Mike

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Feb 1, 2016
15,575
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Oregon
I really wish the Model X had a bit more range wonder though still why they choose to stick with 18650 battery For the flagship rather than at-least the 2170 My understanding was 2170 are better so why not updated chem for those and put in flagship model like s/x long range..

Because they are cell constrained and all of the 2170s are going to the 3&Y. So the S&X will stay with 18650s until they get sufficient volume of 4680s. (Which will go to the Semi and Cybertruck first.)
 
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elguapo

Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
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Maryland
Because they are cell constrained and all of the 2170s are going to the 3&Y. So the S&X will stay with 18650s until they get sufficient volume of 4680s. (Which will go to the Semi and Cybertruck first.)
The problem I have with that is the S and X are 2x the price of the 3 and Y +/-. So while I get the fact they're the mass market cars, the "premium" cars in the line up getting the newest tech last, including core tech like batteries, kind of sucks. It makes me feel like waiting is the best thing even though I love the refreshed S and X. They're not fully refreshed...

Although, I guess the Plaid+ S will get the newest battery system first, and it's most expensive.
 
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MP3Mike

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Feb 1, 2016
15,575
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Oregon
So while I get the fact they're the mass market cars, the "premium" cars in the line up getting the newest tech last, including core tech like batteries, kind of sucks.

The current 18650s use the same formulation as the 2170s, so it isn't like there is some tech that the S&X are missing out on. And in the past Elon said that the 18650s are actually better for performance than the 2170s. (Just because something is newer doesn't mean it is better.)
 

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