New to EV land. Excited and confused!

[RedBall]

Hi, I'm new to the Tesla fold and EV driving, or will be when my car arives. Ive gone for a Model X P100D, and had the order confirmed on Sunday after the obligatory 7 day cooling off..

After doing the usual trawling of youtube/google watching as many relevant videos as I can find and reading forum posts I have come to the conclusion I have a lot to learn, and the waiting time whilst it seems long will no doubt fly by whilst I try to get my head round it all.

My main concerns now are charging - I intend to do this at home, and rather than get a tesla wall charger I was thinking of just getting a 32 amp commando socket installed and using the appropriate cable. This would then allow a bit of flexibility should we get another electric car, and also if I wanted to use it for any industrial equipment etc that I may have cause to use in the garage, or indeedwhen the inlaws visit with their camper van.

However I cant seem to find any reliable source for what cables I actually get with the car - will I have a 32 amp commando adapter? Do I need to order something else? Where can I buy the appropriate cable from?

As I am inherently lazy, so the ideal would be to have the 32amp cable hanging in the garage ready for when I get home each day, but also have the necessary cables in the car should I have to make a longer journey without the hassle of removing the cable from the commando socket in the garage each morning.

Any advice on what cables to buy if I need to?

Im also starting to get twitchy that I may need to upgrade to 3 phase when this car atrives, Im almost certain I will if I end up charging two cars. Anyone have experience of this?

Many thanks for any input.

 

[WannabeOwner]

This would then allow a bit of flexibility should we get another electric car,

I had my Sparky fit a Commando Socket when he fitted the Wall Charger. Dunno how much it adds, but most of the cost was routing cables etc, so I expect "not much". I figure that is best of both worlds - I can charge a visiting EV if one shows up (but all the only EV visitors I have had have been Teslas )

• I find the Commando Socket very flimsy (to get the UMC cable in/out)
• I want a tethered cable - arrive, get out, plug in, go indoors. Personally I do not want to have to get the UMC out of the car / coil it up in the morning all wet and put in the car. UMC cable is expensive, don't really want to damage that because that's my primary charging cable - and, if I damage it, it leaves me with no backup)
• My wall charge (non Tesla brand as Tesla was not approved at the time) has had a fault about once a year. I've reverted to Commando when that has happened (but you could revert to 13AMP - that's about 5-6 MPH charging speed)
• Tesla brand wall charger is well thought of as it has some good design features - e.g. load-sharing for multiple cars.

If you have Solar PV and car parked at home during day [often] there alternative Brands which will divert power to charge car when PV is generating excess.

if I wanted to use it for any industrial equipment

Just by the by : my car is outside, not in garage. I had a regular, external, 13AMP socket pair fitted outside - to pressure wash / vacuum the car etc.

Any advice on what cables to buy if I need to?

Pretty sure that a current MS/ MX comes with UMC which has various adaptors (13AMP and Commando at least; you could add adaptors for e.g. a 3-Phase Commando, EU Schuko [although if you are thinking of doing that pls ask on forum first, there are "issues"] etc.), and also a Type-2 cable (for 3rd party public chargers <spit!>)

I may need to upgrade to 3 phase

Is 3-phase available nearby? Everyone I know who has fitted it (usually for Heatpumps) has been charged both-arms + both-legs by dint of "We have a monopoly Sir, that's the gouging-price"

(I have 3-phase at work, currently I'm the only EV, don't usually have to charge more than 80-100 miles when at work, and that's only 4.5 hours on 1-phase)

I'm a bit rusty, but I think all current MS/MX have the faster A/C charger which benefits from 3-Phase (if not you might want to SPEC that as an option)

Not sure you need 3-phase though ...

Wall Charger is, give-or-take, 22 MPH. Dunno how fast you could charge two cars, presumably that would depend on what other load you were using in the house, and how big your master-fuse is (usually 100 AMP), but you only need to charge what you used "today", and on the very? rare days when you come home empty, and then need 10 hours charging (say), how likely is it that the other car would too?

If you fancy the faster charging speed of 3-Phase don't let me put you off but if you have a (conservative) 230 mile real-world-75-MPH range, and would usually charge over night, it may be overkill.

If on the other hand you are out-and-back during the day a lot then you might like the ability to have 3-Phase charge faster during the "at home" intervals

 

[WannabeOwner]

P.S. if you reckon you could usually charge overnight, and you are not a low mileage user, then worth considering Economy-7. You pay a bit more for day-units, but close to half-price for midnight-to-7AM, and that drives the cost of motoring down to under 3P a mile

better still, charge at work, no benefit-in-kind tax on that ...

 

[RedBall]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The reason I fear I may need to go three phase is more to do with existing load at the house, its not a daft mansion, but certainly not typical. A quick tot up of regularly used equipment that has the pottential to be on all at the same time puts me at 60 amp without much effort. The addition of a 32 amp charger sails me close to the wind of my 100amp main fuse.

The local substation actually borders my property, so if capacity is available then although its likely to be daft, Im hoping it would be nearer a couple of grand rather than north of 10.

My thoughts on getting the commando socket and separate cable was to kind of create my own "thethered" point from that pairing, thus keeping the ease of use, (with the ability to use it for other stuff, such as the inlaws motorhome), whilst also keeping the original items safe in the boot and used for whenever I need to charge away from home.

I just cant find anywhere that sells the tesla mobile cable and 32 amp commando adapter. So i can keep all the original bits in the boot.

 

[cezdoc]

My main concerns now are charging - I intend to do this at home, and rather than get a tesla wall charger I was thinking of just getting a 32 amp commando socket installed and using the appropriate cable. This would then allow a bit of flexibility should we get another electric car, and also if I wanted to use it for any industrial equipment etc that I may have cause to use in the garage, or indeedwhen the inlaws visit with their camper van.

3 years in and I'm still using a 32A blue commando socket with the Tesla UMC. I'm pretty sure the UMC is supplied with all vehicles with both a 13A 3-pin adapter and the 32A commando adapter - but Tesla should be able to confirm this.

This set-up works fine for me although some people warn against relying on the UMC all the time in case it's not robust enough (I typically only need to charge once a week). I am planning to get a proper charge point put in at some point but hoping that I will be allowed to keep the commando socket and attach the charge point to the same supply but with a switch that ensures only one can be live at any time.

Some owners do sell their UMCs on, in fact recently there was someone on the UK owner's group who had picked up a car with a UMC with only the 32A adapter - the 3-pin plug one had gone missing (the 3-pin adapter is far more useful as an emergency charger since all you need is a domestic socket). I'm sure Tesla would also sell you a spare.

I have a pre-facelift S70 but did have the pleasure of driving a MX P100D for a few days when my car was in for some service work. I couldn't believe how sluggish my S felt afterwards! That's a proper spaceship you're getting, once it's delivered I expect your face will be aching from all the grinning

 

[WannabeOwner]

hoping that I will be allowed to keep the commando socket and attach the charge point to the same supply but with a switch that ensures only one can be live at any time

I have that at work. We put a duct in for car charging when we redid the car park, years ago, but it was way too narrow ... so we have an EV charging post in car-park with Tesla and Commando options, and an A/B switch otherwise the cable would melt

regularly used equipment

Power Showers? That's normally the only thing that is likely to raise the usage enough, and I've known people fit a "turn off the car if necessary" box to counter that. Arc Welding might not be too clever though ...

If (mostly) charging at night it may be moot?

But good luck with the "not North of 10" price for 50 yards of 3-phase installation

My thoughts on getting the commando socket and separate cable was to kind of create my own "thethered"

Sorry, but I can't see the attraction. My recommendation would be to get a tethered Wall Charging Unit, in absence of other requirements I'd go for the Tesla one.

@arg is probably the best person here to advise.

 

[arg]

I am not keen on commando sockets for a whole host of reasons, but in particular:

1. The commando socket + UMC only saves you money if you are prepared to either unplug it and load it into the boot every day, or guarantee to remember to put it in the boot on that one occasion when you are going need it away from home, AND you think it will never wear out under those conditions. If you were going to buy a second UMC to go in the boot, then a wall connector is probably cheaper and better.
2. Note (just in case you thought otherwise) that Tesla and almost all other EVs use the same connectors in Europe, so there's no concern about a Tesla wall connector not being able to charge other EVs or any need to use the Tesla WC if another brand best fits your requirements. (the position in North America is different).
3. 'commando socket' in respect of the UMC means 32A blue or 16A red (three-phase). Caravans etc. also use blue commando sockets, but in the smaller 16A size - so not interchangeable without adapters.
4. We need to move to a world where EVs are usable by ordinary people, not just those prepared to spend hours reading up on forums. Standard chargepoints are plug-in-and-it-just-works, things like the UMC need too much knowledge to be sure of using them safely (yes, a UMC permanently plugged into a commando and never removed is exactly the same thing as a standard chargepoint, but it doesn't look like it). Things like the UMC and commando sockets are a necessary evil in the short term for early adopters to cope with the lack of infrastructure, but the more we can encourage that infrastructure the better - especially if there's no cost or other advantage to the commando route.

If you've actually got a 100A supply and no other exceptional loads, then it's fairly likely that you can fit a single 32A chargepoint within the existing supply capacity (people wanting to fit two are much more likely to run into trouble). Note that 100A fuses don't suddenly pop at 101A, so it's more a matter of making sure sustained load is comfortably under 100A rather than ensuring you never exceed it for a few seconds - so lots of electric showers, or electric underfloor heating are potential problems, but adding up the ratings of your kitchen equipment usually isn't.

Three-phase would be nice to have of course, but the cost is likely to be significant (several hundreds of pounds for switchgear to connect to the end of it and reorganizing your existing installation, on top of the cost of the supply itself), and usually not justified just for the sake of EV charging.

If you rule out the three-phase yet still think overloading the supply might be a problem, then there are other solutions: several manufacturers (Zappi, Evolt, and EO, maybe more I don't know about) offer chargepoints that can have a sense coil on your incoming supply and automatically reduce the charging rate if the combination of house load and EV charging load is going to exceed the supply. These systems also work if you want more than one chargepoint (if you are a 2-car household, the temptation to switch the second one to EV will be strong once you have your first). Most houses have plenty of power overnight to charge two EVs while everyone is asleep, but might struggle to have both on charge at the same time as taking a shower and cooking the dinner. These units give the plug-it-in-and-it-just-works comfort. Tesla's unit can share between multiple (Tesla) chargepoints, but not against the rest of the house - so if you have in fact enough power for one unmanaged chargepoint but not two, then it can solve that problem.

Note also that you can claim the OLEV grant on most of these other units but not Tesla's (Tesla never registered it for the grant scheme, and now it wouldn't comply as it doesn't offer remote control). Half of the grant gets eaten up in the overhead of meeting the grant conditions, but it's still a saving. Note also that wiring regulations changed on 1st Jan 2019, and installations now require an expensive Type-B RCD unless the chargepoint itself has DC fault protection: most manufacturers are rushing to add this feature, but Tesla have not (yet?) done so.

That all adds up to a strong incentive not to go for the Tesla unit - the main things it has going for it are the button on the end of the cable to open the car's chargepoint (otherwise you need to reach in your pocket for the keyfob), and the fact that the two-unit-sharing feature (and 3-phase support) are built in as standard (most of the other units charge extra for these features).

 

[RedBall]

The regularly used equipment would be the likes of the comms room, cinema room, spa room, 7 central heating pumps, and detached pub/bar with electric heating and beer fridges.

Add in the electric shower in the spare suite, a kettle or the coffee machine and if I add air conditioning this year, then a 32a car charger may be push it beyond the limits.

However charging in the small hours may well discount many of these items from being on simultaneously.

There is 3 phase available at work though, so a faster charger there should be no issue.

Good point on the cost of cable and commando plug vs the cost of a charge point installed with Grant. It's more cost effective just to go for the charge point. Stuff the in-laws motor home, they can sling an extension lead through the wi sow like usual.

 

[WannabeOwner]

the likes of the comms room, cinema room, spa room, 7 central heating pumps, and detached pub/bar with electric heating and beer fridges

As each of those come up for renewal you might like to spec. lower power replacements. We have much of that stuff, and it isn't high AMP at all. In particular the central heating pumps, I have "eco" pumps mainly because the whole-of-life cost of the "cheap pumps" was horrific on energy cost alone ... we also have a cool room (i.e. external heat pump/compressor) so that we are not running heat pump into the room (as a fridge does). You can get enough beer in there to fuel an army probably not a straightforward retro-fit though ...

Get the in-laws to install an outdoor 13 AMP socket, or even a Commando like this other thread

 

[culverwood]

That all adds up to a strong incentive not to go for the Tesla unit - the main things it has going for it are the button on the end of the cable to open the car's chargepoint (otherwise you need to reach in your pocket for the keyfob).

I am sure I am not alone in finding just pressing the charge-point lid opens it without the need to use the fob.

 

[WannabeOwner]

pressing the charge-point lid opens it without the need to use the fob

Newer vehicles only I think (can't remember "when" - Facelift maybe, or maybe HW2), so that would be the case for any new vehicle

Wifee has key buried in the bottom of her handbag so a nuisance for her to have to get it out ... she opens car and leans in to central console to open charging-port, rather than "get key out", so a Tesla charger with "button" on wand would definitely suit her.

not sure that amounts to a good enough justification to get the P100DL though

 

[arg]

I am sure I am not alone in finding just pressing the charge-point lid opens it without the need to use the fob.

Good point for newer vehicles, but what about unlocking the cable to unplug (which the button also does)?

 

[culverwood]

I find if I open a door to wake the car the cable unlocks itself when power is turned off. I suppose this does not apply to an always on plug.

 

[RedBall]

As each of those come up for renewal you might like to spec. lower power replacements. We have much of that stuff, and it isn't high AMP at all. In particular the central heating pumps, I have "eco" pumps mainly because the whole-of-life cost of the "cheap pumps" was horrific on energy cost alone ... we also have a cool room (i.e. external heat pump/compressor) so that we are not running heat pump into the room (as a fridge does). You can get enough beer in there to fuel an army probably not a straightforward retro-fit though ...

Get the in-laws to install an outdoor 13 AMP socket, or even a Commando like this other thread

Most of the equipment is fairly new, its just I appear to have a fair bit of it (first world problems I guess).

Though just going through a few items which I know have all been running at the same time, I appear to be close to pushing the 100 Amp as it is.

Oven - 5Kw - 20A
Hob - 7Kw - 29A
Hot Tub - 6.7KW - 28A
Pub heater 1 - 2KW - 8A
Pub Heater 2 - 2.2KW - 9A

Total 94 AMP

Thats before I add in any of the other stuff such as an electric shower, central heating pumps, kettle, comms and other tech in the house, and of course another 30 amp for a car charger.

Ive got a request in with Western Power regarding an upgrade to 3 phase and will let them put a quote together. Failing that at least to start with Ill be scheduling the charging to start well after I know I will be finished with any of those items.

Got a while till the car arrives, so a bit of time to sort stuff out, but Im going to delay purchasing any charger until I know the costs of 3 phase. If its reasonable then I may as well get a higher power charger and use the full 16KW capability of the car.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Im going to delay purchasing any charger until I know ...

Makes sense

You could chuck in a couple of PowerWall batteries to tide you over your Max Plaid periods when you are sat in the Hot Tub and boiling the Kettle All joking apart I presume that could be made to work (they have max current draw, so maybe-not) but if Network Power want ridiculous amount to install 3-Phase then providing your own peak-smoothing might become the affordable option. You could also charge them up on E7 at night Off Peak Rate (Tide = 5P a unit, or something like that I think?) and two-fingers to your supplier's Day Peak Rate ...

 

[RedBall]

Makes sense

You could chuck in a couple of PowerWall batteries to tide you over your Max Plaid periods when you are sat in the Hot Tub and boiling the Kettle All joking apart I presume that could be made to work (they have max current draw, so maybe-not) but if Network Power want ridiculous amount to install 3-Phase then providing your own peak-smoothing might become the affordable option. You could also charge them up on E7 at night Off Peak Rate (Tide = 5P a unit, or something like that I think?) and two-fingers to your supplier's Day Peak Rate ...

Its certainly a little more involved than just ordering a car and plugging it in, thats for sure.

To be fair, Ive been concerned over the level of electricity usage for a while and I think this purchase of an EV has just forced me to start considering the issue a bit more seriously.

I havent looked at solar for a while, and Ive missed the boat on the Feed In Tariff, but last time I looked our roof layout was such that the most effective method would have been panels on the side that would have made it look "ugly" (she who must be obeyed's words, not mine). However having systems charge during the day and deploy during the night is an interesting concept and certainly one I shall be giving more thought to. As you say, even if it helps smooth the load in the event 3 phase is prohibitively expensive it could be beneficial.

 

[arg]

Oven - 5Kw - 20A
Hob - 7Kw - 29A
Hot Tub - 6.7KW - 28A
Pub heater 1 - 2KW - 8A
Pub Heater 2 - 2.2KW - 9A

You don't need to account for the full power of hob or oven, only a proportion (assuming this is domestic, not a commercial kitchen), but hot tub and space heating could run continuously.

Essentially your hot tub has used the spare 32A most households have in hand for an EV...

However, if you can't upgrade to 3-phase, one of the chargepoint models that can monitor the total house load will solve the problem (even with all that load, you aren't likely to be using everything at night).

 

[RedBall]

But good luck with the "not North of 10" price for 50 yards of 3-phase installation

Just to advise, quote came back today £3,900 including vat.

So I'm purchasing the Tesla charger and having it set up with a standard single phase 32A setup, but with redundant wiring for three phase supply in case I run into issues and will opt for the upgrade at that point.

 

[Capsid]

Most of the equipment is fairly new, its just I appear to have a fair bit of it (first world problems I guess).

Though just going through a few items which I know have all been running at the same time, I appear to be close to pushing the 100 Amp as it is.

Oven - 5Kw - 20A
Hob - 7Kw - 29A
Hot Tub - 6.7KW - 28A
Pub heater 1 - 2KW - 8A
Pub Heater 2 - 2.2KW - 9A

Total 94 AMP

Thats before I add in any of the other stuff such as an electric shower, central heating pumps, kettle, comms and other tech in the house, and of course another 30 amp for a car charger.

Ive got a request in with Western Power regarding an upgrade to 3 phase and will let them put a quote together. Failing that at least to start with Ill be scheduling the charging to start well after I know I will be finished with any of those items.

Got a while till the car arrives, so a bit of time to sort stuff out, but Im going to delay purchasing any charger until I know the costs of 3 phase. If its reasonable then I may as well get a higher power charger and use the full 16KW capability of the car.

I have a 7kw tethered pod-point with a 100A fuse and I set the car to charge after 9pm when I am unlikely to be using a hob/oven (and hot tub in your case?). The car charges up in about 5-7 hours at 30A.

 

[RedBall]

Thanks, I too think Ill be safe charging overnight, its just for that one occasion when I (and the wife or kids if they get an EV in years to come) have reason to charge during the day, or we have reason to have some of the other stuff on at night that 3 phase may be required.

For now Ill get a 32A charger use it mostly at night and worry about the 3 phase upgrade if and when something goes pop.