New to Tesla/EVs - Home charging install options

[McKinney Ag]

Hello, our M3 is coming in about 10 days and I am trying to finalize plans for our electrician. We are jumping in with both feet as I am also on the list for a MY. So all of this with a two Tesla setup in mind.

We have a 200a panel with capacity for these options.

Initial thought was to have the electrician install two NEMA 14-50R, each on dedicated 50a breakers to start out with and just use the mobile charger. 32a speeds speeds via the 14-50 should be more than enough for us 95% of the time with daily commutes and overnight charging.

So maybe the rest of this is overthinking it.

My current thought is to have the electrician wire these runs with wire that would accommodate 60a in the future if I wanted to change out the 14-50R charging for 2 wall connectors to take advantage of load sharing between them.

So I have been searching and my have information overload at this point....

What is the recommended wiring - something that would handle up to 100a?

If the 14-50R receptacles are on separate 50a circuits, would we just switch to 60a breakers in the future if we wanted to go with wall connectors and they would be able to "talk" to each other over Wi-Fi?

No signal/data communication cable I should run to allow sharing in the future because the Gen3 wall connectors communicate wirelessly?

Thanks - be kind.

 

[GPinzone]

Let's clarify something. To use 50A (actually 48A) continuously, the wiring has to support that, which means it has to be rated for 60A. The breaker is still 50A. The 14-50 outlet is 50A max, not 50A continuous, so that's why the 1st gen UNC was 40A max. You could always remove the 14-50 outlet and use the box as a junction point for a hardwired charger to run at the full 48A that the Model 3 can do assuming you use the right gauge wiring.

Remember that the charge port is on the driver's side of the car. Locate the outlets where it makes sense, meaning if you're going to park head-in vs. back into the garage. Nevertheless, the UNC length is quite long, so don't panic if it's on the "wrong side."

If you want to run a single 100A line and use two Gen 3 chargers to load balance, that might be okay, but it may be cheaper and easier to just run two individual lines. That way you can use any kind of charger, like the UNC that comes with the car simultaneously.

Don't tell the electrician this for an electric car. Tell them it's for a welder. That way you can avoid the "Tesla Tax." You may also may be able to avoid the GFCI requirement your local ordanance may want for electric vehicles even though it's dumb and counter productive.

 

[McKinney Ag]

Thank you.

So if I have him run 2 individual lines that could accommodate up to 60A (or even 100A) and later want to change the 14-50 outlets into 2 HPWC in the future, it would just be changing the breakers out and the HPWC units could still communicate and load balance even though they are on different circuits - right?

I'm guessing the dead giveaway for the electrician is the need for two outlets on both sides of my garage.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I'm guessing the dead giveaway for the electrician is the need for two outlets on both sides of my garage.

Maybe you and your spouse like to weld together?

 

[Twochewy]

We have our Tesla wall connector installed between 2 bays in our garage. It can easily reach both parking spots. Although we have 1 Tesla at the moment, it would be easy to share the connector as we don’t drive that much each day.

 

[rhumbliner]

The breaker is still 50A.

Are you sure about this? That’s not my understanding.

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20885567/sizing-continuously-loaded-conductors-made-simple

Unless otherwise marked, circuit breakers should not be loaded to exceed 80 percent of their current rating, where in normal operation the load will continue for 3 hours or more.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Are you sure about this? That’s not my understanding.

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20885567/sizing-continuously-loaded-conductors-made-simple

Unless otherwise marked, circuit breakers should not be loaded to exceed 80 percent of their current rating, where in normal operation the load will continue for 3 hours or more.

Yep. I was about to respond similarly... you need a 60 amp breaker to go with that 60 amp wire, to supply the 48 amps to an EV.

 

[davewill]

I'd recommend the 60a wire and 50a breakers with 14-50s to start with. That way you can upgrade to 60a wall connectors (individually) if you want to. Running a 100a circuit is overkill.

 

[kwoody51]

I'd recommend the 60a wire and 50a breakers with 14-50s to start with. That way you can upgrade to 60a wall connectors (individually) if you want to. Running a 100a circuit is overkill.

This...

Put in 2 14-50 outlets, each with 50amp breaker (this is the correct size for 14-50).

If you want to install wall connector later (not sure why you’d need to...) you can do it easily it’s just reconnecting wires. Maybe 15 min per plug to convert to HPWC.

Have some rough idea on the length of the run as this will help you know the raw cost.

I installed my own 14-50 plug for $125.
$40 for the plug
$75 for 25’ of 6/3 wire
$10 for 50amp breaker (not GCFI).

 

[kwoody51]

Yep. I was about to respond similarly... you need a 60 amp breaker to go with that 60 amp wire, to supply the 48 amps to an EV.

This statement is only accurate for HPWC.

For the 14-50 a 50 amp breaker is correct size.

 

[pdileonardo]

This statement is only accurate for HPWC.

For the 14-50 a 50 amp breaker is correct size.

Why not upsize the wire to accommodate 60 amps (very inexpensive) so that you at least have the option to switch out the breaker and run a HPWC at full rated capacity later? That’s what I did.

 

[Sophias_dad]

This statement is only accurate for HPWC.

For the 14-50 a 50 amp breaker is correct size.

For the 14-50, a 50 amp breaker(or less!) is the right size, but your EV or whatever is connecting to that breaker may only continuously draw 40 amps.

 

[McKinney Ag]

These replies were all very helpful....thank you. We are going with the 14-50 outlets with 50A breakers but with wire capable of handling more to future proof.

Now the problem is Tesla being out of stock on the 14-50 mobile adapter....ugh.

Stupid question....if I buy the 14-30 adapter can that be used on the 14-50 outlet and it would just draw less power? Or is using the 14-30 adapter on a 50A outlet a big no-no?

 

[Kevy Baby]

These replies were all very helpful....thank you. We are going with the 14-50 outlets with 50A breakers but with wire capable of handling more to future proof.

Now the problem is Tesla being out of stock on the 14-50 mobile adapter....ugh.

Stupid question....if I buy the 14-30 adapter can that be used on the 14-50 outlet and it would just draw less power? Or is using the 14-30 adapter on a 50A outlet a big no-no?

1. I just went to the Tesla web site and was able to put 14*50 adaptor in my cart. They come and go all the time.
2. A 14-30 won't fit into the 14-50 - they are different plus. This is intentional so you don't plug in the wrong thing
3. If you haven't already, Go to a SALES Center and ask if they have a 14-50 available for sale. Many people here have reported success doing this even when the site says they are out.
4. If the 14-50 isn't available on the site, you should be able to get an email notification when it is available
5. There are some good third-party folks selling quality adaptors. You can hunt around TMC for a link

ETA: I found the link for the EVSE Adaptor. It is a $30 premium, but if you have no other solution, then it is a small price to pay

 

[user212_nr]

Thank you.

So if I have him run 2 individual lines that could accommodate up to 60A (or even 100A) and later want to change the 14-50 outlets into 2 HPWC in the future, it would just be changing the breakers out and the HPWC units could still communicate and load balance even though they are on different circuits - right?

I'm guessing the dead giveaway for the electrician is the need for two outlets on both sides of my garage.

You don't need 60A for the wall unit. It can use 60A, but it can also use 50A. There is no need for the wall unit, however, as long as you have enough power that you don't need load sharing.

Yes, it would be a "dead giveaway". Its not just changing breakers but also sizing the wire.

Stupid question....if I buy the 14-30 adapter can that be used on the 14-50 outlet and it would just draw less power? Or is using the 14-30 adapter on a 50A outlet a big no-no?

NEMA 14-50 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3 Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters

 

[McKinney Ag]

And just like that, the 14-50 adapter is back in stock.

At least as of right now...haha

 

[yuhong]

You may also may be able to avoid the GFCI requirement your local ordanance may want for electric vehicles even though it's dumb and counter productive.

It is part of the NEC now. I suggested a compromise involving a disconnecting switch instead and was rejected.

 

[Rocky_H]

It is part of the NEC now. I suggested a compromise involving a disconnecting switch instead and was rejected.

A disconnect switch is nothing at all like the functionality of a GFCI and so isn't a "compromise". A disconnect switch is something you can decide to walk over and use. A GFCI is something to automatically trigger without your intervention if you start to get electrocuted.

 

[Electric Steve]

Don't tell the electrician this for an electric car. Tell them it's for a welder. That way you can avoid the "Tesla Tax." You may also may be able to avoid the GFCI requirement your local ordanance may want for electric vehicles even though it's dumb and counter productive.

According to the manual, there's GFCI built in to the wall charger, so you shouldn't get a GFCI breaker.

As for the Tesla tax, my electrician works on a straight T&M basis. I recommend that!

 

[GPinzone]

According to the manual, there's GFCI built in to the wall charger, so you shouldn't get a GFCI breaker.

Yes, but the NEC 2017 requires 240V outlets for EVs need to be GFCI. If you say it's for a welder, then maybe you can get a non-GFCI installed if the electrician balks.