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new Trak Sport Snow Chains on Tesla Store

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That is a very complex system that requires a lot of effort for correct installation.
Does anyone have real world experience with this product http://www.autosock.co.uk/

You think the Trak sport chains are "a very complex system that requires a lot of effort for correct installation"? In my opinion, they're the simplest chains I've ever used and you can get chains on each wheel within a couple minutes with minimal practice. Initial setup to install the correct screw/spacer takes 10-20 minutes but you only do that once. Design wise, they seem elegant, not complex. They have one anchor point and one hook vs standard chains with 3 or more hooks on the chains plus six hooks on the elastics.

As for auto socks, I investigated them before purchasing Trak Sport and people complain they shred on asphalt. Being in the California mountains where they sometimes insist you install chains before you reach the snow, that's a deal killer. We also have frequent conditions where sunny areas turn to wet pavement and shaded areas remain as snow/ice and I assume the wet pavement (especially covered in volcanic gravel we usually use for traction) will damage auto socks. California regulations don't make it clear if auto socks are even considered chains for the purposes of chains-required laws so socks may not pass the chain check depending on what the particular officer thinks. They also don't bite in to ice - in fact people say they slip on ice so they aren't as safe as chains.
 
You think the Trak sport chains are "a very complex system that requires a lot of effort for correct installation"? In my opinion, they're the simplest chains I've ever used and you can get chains on each wheel within a couple minutes with minimal practice. Initial setup to install the correct screw/spacer takes 10-20 minutes but you only do that once. Design wise, they seem elegant, not complex. They have one anchor point and one hook vs standard chains with 3 or more hooks on the chains plus six hooks on the elastics.

As for auto socks, I investigated them before purchasing Trak Sport and people complain they shred on asphalt. Being in the California mountains where they sometimes insist you install chains before you reach the snow, that's a deal killer. We also have frequent conditions where sunny areas turn to wet pavement and shaded areas remain as snow/ice and I assume the wet pavement (especially covered in volcanic gravel we usually use for traction) will damage auto socks. California regulations don't make it clear if auto socks are even considered chains for the purposes of chains-required laws so socks may not pass the chain check depending on what the particular officer thinks. They also don't bite in to ice - in fact people say they slip on ice so they aren't as safe as chains.

Thanks for the comments, but I asked if anyone had real world experience with the AutoSock... :cool:
 
Thanks for the comments, but I asked if anyone had real world experience with the AutoSock... :cool:

You're welcome and keep in mind that much of what I said was summarizing the real world experiences that others have posted. Please feel free to go find the same information with a simple google search on your own. Since this thread was started in regards to Maggi Trak Sport, you're not likely to find a lot of AutoSock users stopping by, but good luck.

ecarfan said:
Those chains are intriguing. I searched for them on the US Amazon site but do not find them. They appear to be made by an Italian company. I cannot find any information as to the maximum allowed speed with the chains installed.


They have been on US Amazon in the past (I found some listings in Google's cache) but are not currently available on US Amazon. I have no idea why. The max speed recommended in the manual is 30mph. I haven't found the English manual online but here it is with an Italian cover and sections in many languages (including English):
http://www.trakonline.it/Contents/Documents/TrakSport-istruzioni.pdf
 
I got them on Nov 27th as promised but didn't have a chance to test fit until today. Tesla's web site says to use the red spacer with "M" length screw. When I did that, the red pads of the chains did not pull up against the sidewalls of the tire as shown in the pictures on Tesla's web site and in every picture I've seen of these chains online. Some red pads (top two in the picture below) were an inch or more from the tire sidewall which causes the chain to ride close to the outer edge of the tire:


Using the red spacer ensures the red ball at the end of the silver arm coming from the lug-nut holder never gets closer than about 1cm from any part of the wheel hub. The instructions say to choose a spacer where the red ball never gets more than 2cm away from the wheel hub spokes (what they call "the rims"). However, the instructions also show all the red pads of the chain touching the tire sidewall and they show a hub that sits significantly deeper than the sidewall. On Tesla tires, ridges of the hub come out as far as the sidewall, maybe even slightly farther. So getting within 2cm of the Tesla ridges is like getting within 4-6cm of the style of rim pictured in the manual. Therefore, I switched to using the blue spacer and that worked much better to pull the chains on almost completely:


With the blue spacer, the red ball can hit the spokes of the wheel hub if you rotate it to point towards the tire sidewall. However, the instructions say to put the lug-nut gripper on the farthest right lug nut with the ball pointing down at the ground. Tighten the red gear-shaped handle as tight as possible, then rotate red ball and handle till red ball points over the center of the tire. If those instructions are followed, the red ball will not touch a hub spoke, though it comes very close in some wheel orientations.

Another oddity is the instructions on Tesla's site say to leave "max 3" links of chain between the center and where the chain locks in to some red plastic. The instructions that came with my chains say to leave between 2 and 4 links of chain, which means you can't pull the center down as close as you could if you went to 1 or 0 links of chain remaining. The instructions are not clear as to where you should count your 2-4 links of chain from, but based on the picture it looks like they want you to count from the underside of the red plastic to the end of the chain. There is always one link that's halfway visible coming out of the red plastic and I don't know if they mean that half link to be counted or not. I decided to count it so I was leaving 1.5 links of chain visible in both my tests. Actually, I seem to have accidentally pulled it till only half a chain link was visible when I installed the chain on the other side:


It's also possible that in actual ice and snow things would be slick enough that the chains would pull on completely with the red spacer. I did my tests on dry asphalt. Has anyone run in snow with the red spacer? Did you leave 1.5 links of chain visible between the red plastic and the center bar? Note that I'm not counting the final anchor loop as a chain link.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the chains overall. I won't know for sure how well they work till I have to drive in snow with them, but that could be awhile.


Thanks for the detailed writeup and photos!

I just got my chains and tried to install them with the recommended red spacer and medium sized bolt. After installing them, I took a few photos (see below) and it looked fine to me. The chains were well-centered on the tires, and the red "tabs" were fairly flush against the sidewalls.

I didn't drive with the chains more than a few feet to mount them properly, but if I end up using them on my road trip to Utah and Wyoming over the next two weeks, I'll be sure to take photos and report back here.

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Thanks for the detailed writeup and photos!

I just got my chains and tried to install them with the recommended red spacer and medium sized bolt. After installing them, I took a few photos (see below) and it looked fine to me. The chains were well-centered on the tires, and the red "tabs" were fairly flush against the sidewalls.

Yeah, it looks like they pulled on properly with red spacers on your car. It also looks like you pulled the chain in the middle out as far as it would go rather than leaving 1.5 links of chain between the red plastic and the silver bar as I did in my initial install (because the instructions say to leave 2-4 links of chain at that point). Pulling the chain as far as it will go pulls the center about 3/4" closer to the tire, which might be enough to get it working with the red spacer (in fact, the difference in length between red and blue spacers is also about 3/4" if I remember correctly). As I mentioned earlier, the black elastic ends up pulling the chain out as far as it will go anyway as you drive on the chains, so I guess you may as well pull the chain out and use the red spacer. On the other hand, I think I prefer the center of the chains to be a bit closer to the wheel so I think I'll continue with the blue. Nice to know it works either way.
 
I'd rather buy chains for those few days I'll really need them than drive on a set of loud snow tires 99% of the time I'll be on dry roads.

FYI: Studded snow tires are loud. Studless snow tires are very quiet, typically quieter than All-seasons or summer tires. They also don't damage the road and have really good traction in wet weather.

But, if I lived in SF, I'd probably do the same thing you did. Chains are easier to store. If you're only in the snow once and a while, chains are probably the way to go.
 
Tried these out today with the red spacer and had a miserable experience. We have a rear-wheel drive model S, and we put on a set of 19" Tesla wheels with Nokian Hakkapeliitta each winter. (These are the same size (245 45R19) as Tesla-blessed traction tires.) We tried the Z-chains two winters ago without success; the limited space in the rear wheel well made them nearly impossible to install and align.

We picked up a set of the Trak chains before they sold out, and a few days back, I followed the instructions provided (medium bolt, red spacer, largest lug nut sleeve) and got the chains mounted and seated properly at home. In the process, I noticed:

- The fit of the sleeve over the lug nut isn't great.
- Some documentation specifies 2-4 links of chain visible, while some specifies 3; the chain between the center of the "X" and the lever with the red ball on the end is slack with that configuration.

Nonetheless, I elected to trust that Tesla knows what they're recommending and selling and didn't take the car out for a drive around the block on dry pavement. I should have.

Fast forward to today, I pulled over in the snow on I90 headed out of Seattle on the way for a day of skiing with the family, and installed the chains. After about 300m and while traveling about 10MPH, both chains came loose and tumbled out into traffic. I pulled over, ran back to grab them, and reinstalled them. Again, both chains came loose and cartwheeled off of the car at 10-15MPH. We took the next exit and headed home. The roads were wet but bare by midday, but there were a few spun-out vehicles in the morning to make discretion seem like the right choice.

Back at home, I tried the blue spacer and no spacer (factory default, with "XS" bolt) with one chain, and it again came unseated and cartwheeled off at about 15MPH.

I'll report back if I figure out how to get it working, but it seems like a quick dry run is prudent to validate the configuration. (Don't make the dry run in an area with lots of parked cars...) It seems unlikely that the specified configuration (red, medium) works with the tolerances specified in the documentation (2-4 or 3 links of "slack"), so hopefully someone publishes with a definitive working configuration. Is there some subtle but significant variation in lug nuts that's at fault here? If the sleeve was better seated, that would provide a more reasonable number of links of slack.
 
FYI: Studded snow tires are loud. Studless snow tires are very quiet, typically quieter than All-seasons or summer tires. They also don't damage the road and have really good traction in wet weather.

But, if I lived in SF, I'd probably do the same thing you did. Chains are easier to store. If you're only in the snow once and a while, chains are probably the way to go.

Agreed, and to be more specific I'll be in the snow every other weekend during the ski season. But that's mostly in the Taboe area where snow doesn't accumulate that much and it's relatively warm (for a mountain in the winter), so all-wheel drive with all-season tires has been enough so far. I didn't even need chains for the time I was in Oregon skiing at Mt Bachelor just about a year ago, and it was well below freezing. The P85D performed like a champ there.

However, for this upcoming trip to Utah and Wyoming, I'm not taking any chances as I'll be a long way from home, so I went out and bought the Sport Trak chains just in case. Looking at the weather forecast over the next week or two, I think it was a wise and well-spent decision :biggrin:
 
Here's a view of the inside of the sleeve and how far it slides down the taper of the lug nut, probably about 0.5cm or so.

I think you're using the wrong lug nut holder (aka collet). The chains should have come with collets for 17mm, 19mm, and 21mm lug nuts. Normally, the 17mm collets are pre-installed on the chains and I suspect that's the size you're using in the picture. Switch to the 21mm (largest) collet and make sure it slides on as far as you see in the various pictures posted in earlier posts in this thread. I'm not sure exactly how much of the lug nut it covers but I'm guessing at least 3/4" - the 5mm shown in your picture is way too little. With the silver bar held straight down and the collet on the farthest right lug, tighten the red gear-shaped handle as tight as you can by hand, then turn it with the silver bar as you swing the silver bar in to place over the center of the wheel. Try to pull the collet off the lug nut at this point with all your strength and you should find it does not budge.

If you have three sizes of collet and you're already using the largest one, double check that your lug nuts are truly 21mm by checking that a 21mm socket wrench fits snugly over the lugs. If you're missing the correct size collet, I suppose contact Tesla since they sold you the chains.
 
I think you're using the wrong lug nut holder (aka collet). The chains should have come with collets for 17mm, 19mm, and 21mm lug nuts. Normally, the 17mm collets are pre-installed on the chains and I suspect that's the size you're using in the picture. Switch to the 21mm (largest) collet and make sure it slides on as far as you see in the various pictures posted in earlier posts in this thread. I'm not sure exactly how much of the lug nut it covers but I'm guessing at least 3/4" - the 5mm shown in your picture is way too little. (...snipped...)

All good thoughts, and I agree about the amount of purchase for the collet on the nut. I triple-checked the collets (thanks for the word!) on initial installation, including measuring the inner diameter with a caliper, and they are the 21mm. (And the 21mm fitting is for a 14mm nut, apparently.) One of the local Tesla maintenance guys indicated that they've seen situations where a a third-party wheel/tire shop used a 7/8" (~22.5mm) instead of a 21mm and caused sufficient deformation to where a 21mm would no longer fit. I'm going to take the car in on Wednesday, buy a fresh set of nuts if needed, and will report back.

Meanwhile, I'll confirm others in the thread that the chains are straightforward and quick to install, but there is probably an additional guideline missing from the document about ensuring that the collet is properly seated along the lines of a big red "X" over the picture I put in the thread above.
 
Thule makes something similar
Amazon.com: Thule K-Summit Low-Profile Passenger Car Snow Chain, Size K23 (Sold in pairs): Automotive

There is a K45 version that runs on 245/45/19 tire
I wonder if it fits MS

Yes, Model S owners have used the K-summits on 19" and even on 21" tires. I didn't go with them because they're more expensive, not the brand recommended by Tesla, and because of a number of problems people had with the chains. A lot of people complain the K-summit chains slip off their lug nut and are lost. This may be user error not tightening them enough, or maybe lug nuts on some cars are more slippery, or maybe Thule's collets are sub-standard. Apparently the instructions that come with the chains are picture-only so it's easy to imagine people don't know you need to tighten those collets with a lot of force to prevent them slipping off, but I can't be sure if that's the problem. Others complain they've bent the ratchet in the center of the chains by over tightening and that there's no instructions for how tight to make it. The ratchet should be a more robust design than the chain with elastic that Maggi uses, but there's so many complaints of bending I'm not really sure if that's true.

Looking at reviews of various Thule chains, a lot of people complain that various metal or plastic parts break too easily. Broken chains do damage to wheel wells and side panels and Thule never covers the damage. I guess they can't really afford to cover such expensive damage but people don't mention that Thule even replaces the broken chains or offers an apology. Chains with little usage have been reported to break so I don't trust their quality control. One person said some plastic broke after 3 years but only 6 actual uses of the chains and Thule wouldn’t honor the 5 year warranty saying that if plastic is actually defective it will break in 1 year. So basically their "5 year warranty" is actually at best a 1 year warranty in how they honor it.

Now all this doesn't mean that Maggi is definitely going to be any better in quality or service. I spent a lot of time trying to research people's experience with Maggi chains and apparently people in the UK just don't review products or something because I found a grand total of about 5 reviews for the Trak Sport chains across the whole internet and not many reviews of any other chains in Maggi's line. On the other hand, all reviews were positive. It's also been my experience that smaller, less known companies like Maggi seem to be compelled to produce higher-quality items rather than rely on big-name recognition and a long history. Thule is a huge Swedish company established in 1942 and they added snow chains to their line in 2004 when they acquired Köning. Thule was acquired by Nordic Capital in May 2007 after losing too much money during the global financial crisis, so at this point I expect they're another huge company that's focused on profits above all else. Given all that, I went with the Maggi chains.
 
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Yeah, it looks like they pulled on properly with red spacers on your car. It also looks like you pulled the chain in the middle out as far as it would go rather than leaving 1.5 links of chain between the red plastic and the silver bar as I did in my initial install (because the instructions say to leave 2-4 links of chain at that point). Pulling the chain as far as it will go pulls the center about 3/4" closer to the tire, which might be enough to get it working with the red spacer (in fact, the difference in length between red and blue spacers is also about 3/4" if I remember correctly). As I mentioned earlier, the black elastic ends up pulling the chain out as far as it will go anyway as you drive on the chains, so I guess you may as well pull the chain out and use the red spacer. On the other hand, I think I prefer the center of the chains to be a bit closer to the wheel so I think I'll continue with the blue. Nice to know it works either way.

Yeah I'm not sure why there's a recommendation to keep any links of chain between the silver bar and the red plastic hole.

If you skip to about 0:55 into the video below, you'll see that the man demoing the installation pulls most of the chain through before snapping it on:

 
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I took the car in to the local maintenance facility this morning and tried pristine lug nuts with the collet — the nut was a perfect fit and seated almost complete into the collet. With all 20 lug nuts replaced, I'm going to fit the chains and take a test drive around the neighborhood on dry pavement tonight.
 
paulrbrown said:
I took the car in to the local maintenance facility this morning and tried pristine lug nuts with the collet — the nut was a perfect fit and seated almost complete into the collet. With all 20 lug nuts replaced, I'm going to fit the chains and take a test drive around the neighborhood on dry pavement tonight.


Good to hear!

These Trak devices look a lot like Spikes Spider, which I have for my pre-Tesla car.

Similar idea but they fold much smaller than the original mostly-plastic spiders (although there are spiders that are half chains and half plastic that might fold as small). Also, spiders have a special central part you attach with special lug nuts once at the start of the snow season and take it off at the end and the remainder of the chains snaps to the central part. However, people complain it looks ugly to leave it on and can cause vibration if you drive at higher speeds. I have a local friend that uses spiders and he hasn't complained of vibration so may depend on the balance of the particular set you get or the weight of your wheels or something. Personally I prefer chains like the Trak Sport that come off completely when not in use but still install quickly. In fact, my friend thinks he's going to switch since a pair of spiders have worn out - he sort of gave me the impression the all-plastic ones didn't last that long.
 
I talked with 2 owners at the Truckee supercharger last week and they both had problems with the Tesla chains.
One had lost the entire chain set on Hwy 89 and had to drive back to retrieve the spider after losing traction.
My recommendation is to purchase a real set of low profile chains or just go with the dual motor option :cool: