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- Thread starter PluggedINLife
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You're saying that customers need to "read between the lines" in order to understand what Tesla is actually promising when they read the promise on Tesla's web site prior to ordering? Why would a customer need to read tea leaves and follow niche auto forums in order to understand that what they are reading on Tesla's ordering page is actually a pipe dream? I don't think any customer needs to live the life of a fanboy or fangirl in order to understand what they are buying. Do you say the same thing to people who want to buy a BMW, Mercedes, Chevy or Toyota?
If Musk left Tesla, Tesla might actually stop over-promising and under-delivering. In fact, they might actually hit a deadline.
That shows you what a bad CEO Musk actually is. No CEO should ever put their company in such a position. Even Jobs had a B plan with Cook. What is Musk's plan?
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It's a double-edged sword, but Musk is the furthest thing from a bad CEO. That statement is laughable. The most critical thing a CEO needs to have is vision and he has that in bulk. More so, I'd say, than just about anyone else on the planet. Who else is playing with a tunneling machine under LA so they can better learn how to tunnel on Mars? He's playing 3D chess while most (nothing against them) are playing checkers.
Would it be great if he didn't mention dates when they aren't certain? Of course. But it's also part of his trademark candor and direct interactions with customers which almost everyone appreciates. So if you had to choose between him throwing out dates that might not be achievable while directly engaging with customers and him not saying anything on Twitter or in interviews any more, I think almost everyone would go with the former. Sure there's a middle ground, but that's all his choice. The company hasn't really been penalized for it in any way, so there's way more reward at the moment than risk.
Truth be told, as long as his hits the goals and milestones they've set for Model 3, which it looks like they're on track to do, they're going to be handsomely rewarded and I think we'll be able to say that they've generally learned their lesson around overpromising and underdelivering. That's not a catch-all of course, but it's the most important metric (production and delivery dates, and delivery numbers) and that's really all most people are going to be looking at.
They promised EAP in October 2016 by December, and just 3 months ago Elon said some FSD features would exist in 3-6 months. Meanwhile EAP doesn't exist at all yet. And I promise you they will be telling you your Model 3 will drive itself in a short while when they finally sell you one.
So what was that you were saying about having learned lessons?
I agree re: FSD and EAP - that's still up in the air and as it's well known now, had delays associated with the breakup with MobileEye. That aside, I was only speaking to upcoming vehicle milestones, not software or Tesla Vision-based prior promises. The jury is still out on those, no question, but for me anyway, AP 1 works well for long highway drives and now that AP 2 has parity, it isn't yet what they promised but it's very usable and they're getting there. And the lessons they've supposedly learned haven't come to pass yet. Those milestones happen later this year, so we'll see how those shake out. Can't really ding them on Model 3-related statements and newer milestones when we aren't there yet.
Would I have charged people for EAP or FSD starting in late-2016? No way. But as a semi-intelligent consumer, I knew at the time that if I did want to upgrade to an AP 2 car, I wouldn't pay for EAP or FSD because it would clearly be a ways out, regardless of what Elon had said. But that's just me - I know most folks don't follow the company or research things as much as I do.
AP2 is not yet at AP1 parity. AEB is slower, no speed limit sign reading, no perpendicular parking, no automatic wipers. Plus the whole crossing into oncoming lanes thing.
The Model 3 is going to be sold heavily on the fact that it has AP2 and will be able to drive itself "someday." Which will encourage Elon to keep tweeting things like a full autonomous cross country drive is coming within the next 180 days. I don't think that if Tesla manages to ship Model 3's in volume in the next few months that means that they are suddenly on track as a company and that I should believe FSD will be here shortly, that they will really have an update in the next 30 days that makes "AP2 smooth as silk" or that we'll see automatic wipers, parking, or the updated browser this month either. And he tweeted all of that just 9 days ago.
Tesla has tied them so much to the software functionality that there is no separating the physical car from this. They are going to be dealing with a lot more issues from these completely wrong time estimates once the Model 3 is out as a mass market car, not less.
If Elon pulls the same stunt with Model 3 EAP/FSD as MS/MX, I suspect pitchforks and flaming cocktails will be coming his way. Good enough for me to verbally bash Tesla, but that won't satisfy the masses.
NerdUno
Member
The problem with being the "semi-intelligent consumer" is you would lock yourself out of ever getting to FSD because you'd be lacking the necessary hardware add-ons.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Does your general Model 3 buyer even care much about AP and FSD? It seems the reaction was underwhelming to the announcement that Model 3 would have FSD hardware (Elon seemed to have expected a much bigger reaction).
I disagree that Model 3 being on time would be insignificant. Tesla had always been late on production predictions. If they are on time for Model 3 that would be a big sign that they beginning to focus on the right things (previously with Model X they focused on too many extra features). As for the software, they are late, but they are able to fix that after sale. For the production however, they don't have that chance.
Autopilot is the #1 most wanted Model 3 option:
Tesla Model 3: Autopilot is most popular option among reservation holders and 58% want a battery upgrade
It's also the one he's promised will be on all Teslas, not just the high end ones, unlike basically everything else, which indicates Tesla believes it is critical to the Model 3:
"Model S will always have more range, more acceleration, more power, more passenger cargo room, more displays (two), and more customization choices, and Model S, X and 3 will all have equivalent Autopilot functionality. We will continue to clearly communicate these distinctions to avoid any misperceptions.”
Also, as a company, Tesla often "fixes" things after the sale by just revising the car to have it without a retrofit path. AP1 doesn't do all it was promised to, even though it would be software. AP2 likely will not do everything it was promised to.
"Tesla will never stop innovating. People are buying the wrong car if they expect this. There will be major revs every 12 to 18 months."
A company that is focused on innovating and doing major revs every 12 to 18 months can't be expected to also keep updating old products. With other cars you buy on what it does. With a Tesla you often buy on a promise of what it will do, but those promises are pretty weak, and even the CEO is telling you to be careful of when you buy.
Tesla Model 3: Autopilot is most popular option among reservation holders and 58% want a battery upgrade
It's also the one he's promised will be on all Teslas, not just the high end ones, unlike basically everything else, which indicates Tesla believes it is critical to the Model 3:
"Model S will always have more range, more acceleration, more power, more passenger cargo room, more displays (two), and more customization choices, and Model S, X and 3 will all have equivalent Autopilot functionality. We will continue to clearly communicate these distinctions to avoid any misperceptions.”
Also, as a company, Tesla often "fixes" things after the sale by just revising the car to have it without a retrofit path. AP1 doesn't do all it was promised to, even though it would be software. AP2 likely will not do everything it was promised to.
"Tesla will never stop innovating. People are buying the wrong car if they expect this. There will be major revs every 12 to 18 months."
A company that is focused on innovating and doing major revs every 12 to 18 months can't be expected to also keep updating old products. With other cars you buy on what it does. With a Tesla you often buy on a promise of what it will do, but those promises are pretty weak, and even the CEO is telling you to be careful of when you buy.
googleiscoul
3 months maybe, 6 months definitely......
Are you serious? Apple is now the richest company in the world with a market cap of $800 billion!
You're being too critical of Cook. More new Apple Watch band colors came out today!
googleiscoul
3 months maybe, 6 months definitely......
Just because they are worth a lot doesn't mean they are innovating - there hasn't been 1 new product that was different than its competitors or better in some way it works.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Market cap has almost nothing to do with innovation. Some of the most innovative companies are startups and they don't have anywhere near the market cap of established companies.
You said Cook wasn't a good counter to Jobs and that comment was in the context of other CEO's - Musk, Page, Ellison, Zuckerberg, Bezos and Cook. That was the topic of the post you were responding to. CEO's are supposed to run companies and create value for shareholders, that's the job. Being creative and innovative is also great but that skillset can be hired (as Musk and these others did). To say Cook wasn't in the same class of these others misunderstands what it takes to do what he did. It's almost unimaginable...$800 billion!
Algbc
Member
See post #132, the topic was valuation and the importance of a particular CEO to their respective companies not innovation.
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That's an assertion that is impossible to prove.
Let's be real if we tried to do a valuation
Musk vs Bezos
Musk vs Cook
Musk vs Zuckerburg
Musk vs Netflix CEO (Do you even know his name? I would have to Google it)
Musk vs Larry Page / Sergey Brin
I don't think its even debatable which company falls the hardest when losing their flagship CEO.
