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New User looking for advise on roadster purchase

Discussion in 'Roadster: Technical' started by EdMcConnell, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Messages:
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    Location:
    22102
    Hello,

    I'm looking at a 2010 roadster with 16k miles that looks good except that it's standard mode ideal range only shows 150miles when battery assembly including remanufactured ESS 2.0 was replaced in April 2017 with only about 2000 miles on it since then.

    Should I be concerned about the battery health?

    How would I tell if it is in good shape?

    Car is not in my area, so I can't look / touch it easily.

    Appreciate any feedback,

    Ed
     
  2. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    NE Tennessee
    That seems a little low. If the battery has not been able to balance itself through a few range charges that could be an easy explanation. See if the owner can provide the CAC. It should be north of 140. This is also the reason I sprang for the 3.0 battery as there is likely a battery life. We just are not sure if that is 10 years or 15 years.
     
  3. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

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    thanks, the current owner is a non-Tesla dealership, and I'll need to explain to him how to do that. Isn't ideal range just a calculation that is based on CAC of the battery, which is also an estimate that is subject to BMC calibration ... or more significantly weak cells?
     
  4. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    Yes, you are correct there is a very strong correlation between ideal miles and the CAC. Sometimes with a new/rebuilt battery there are bricks that are out of balance. The CAC and thus the range is determined by the lowest brick. If the new owner never did a range charge to allow balancing that could be the issue. But no way to know without the logs or ideally a range charge to see what is going on. Where is the car?
     
  5. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

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    Car is in Memphis area, I'm in northern Virgina (McLean). Had the reading been 170ish, I would have already made an offer or taken a trip to Memphis. I'm ok with the BMC calibration being off, or with balancing being needed. But I'm skittish about a bad cell that might get worse soon, not knowing the out-of-warranty cost for a repair. I talked to a local service center and they indicated $35k or so for replacement of same 2.0 pack or $40k for replacement with the 3.0, which is a lot of risk even it the likelihood is low without understanding if it's an indication of a soon potential failure of a sheet/brick.

    Any one seen numbers for replacing sheet/brick in ESS when not under warranty?
     
  6. backmost

    backmost Member

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    A new 3.0 should be $29k, at least from the website. They can give you the CAC through the diagnostic menu, I can PM you the instructions on that if you like.
     
  7. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

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    thanks, I found an article and forwarded it to the dealer. Since, ideal range is calculated based on CAC via a linear formula, it's not clear to me how CAC info might convey different information. I can see however that the brick voltage variations would be useful to know as that would help assess if balancing is needed, unless one way way off.
     
  8. MLAUTO

    MLAUTO Member

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    If the battery was replaced, there was obviously a previous problem, which might account for the low range/CAC. With only 2000 miles since, the car probably has not had time to recalculate the CAC. It only does that in small increments, and only accurately after a major drain and recharge. But I would not buy it without an inspection. The only real way to tell the battery health is to drive it 150 miles and see what the range is. Buy a ticket and go drive it for a day.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. ShawnA

    ShawnA Member

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    Location:
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Hi Ed,

    The only known (to me) non-Tesla service organization in the US that will work on these batteries is Gruber EV.
    They are in Phoenix, Arizona.
    It would be worth your time to call them and discuss your plans.
    Peter Gruber (Junior) has been very helpful to me...

    Shawn

    PS - They have listings for complete Roadster batteries and sheets for Roadster batteries on eBay.
     
  10. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

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    Location:
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    Hi,

    Any ideas who besides Tesla can replace a bad sheet of batteries and know what it might cost to do so?

    I’m in northern Virginia (McLean).
     
  11. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Member

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    Location:
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    The problem with this particular car is a) the original battery is superseded with higher capicity cells, more out of progress than design, 18650 cells have come a long way in 10 years, some would say they are now no longer on the leading edge with the slightly larger formats coming out.
    b) the service centers are now geared up for model 3/S/X models and there is a hugely diminishing support for the roadster and it’s spare parts department.
    c) with the small number of these cars there are limited 3rd party support in aftermarket sales. Even a simple hard top storage case is impossible to find.
    d) The only place to find advice on the workings of these cars is on sites like this. Most people have saved thousands by the resources made available by the open discussions and support found on these pages. The manuals are simply not released so thanks to the many pioneering steps taken by owners here, there is a lot of documentation now available to help you maintain these vehicles, but as for continuing support from Tesla, don’t expect much, even less when the 2020 Roadster appears, I fear there will be much mis communication between the two models by anyone outside the realm of the original roadsters.
     
  12. EdMcConnell

    EdMcConnell Member

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    understand. I went to the service center on a Saturday morning at 10 to chat with a tech and the parking lot at the service center was packed. The tech was friendly, and looked up some things for me, but said they couldn't do anything that would help determine if the battery was good or not, but threw out the $40k for the 3.0 and "a couple thousand less" for the original pack. I assumed the difference being dealer labor cost that isn't included in the $29k advertised component kit.
     
  13. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    Unless things changed the 3.0 battery upgrade is $29K, parts and labor and they take your old battery as a core. They took 3+ weeks on my upgrade, but they also gave me a P85D as a loaner so not the end of the world. For that price they also included pick up and delivery as I am 190 miles from the service center. I do think there is TAX on top of it but $30K should be all you spend for a battery. Not that $30k is cheap in any way at least in my book.
     
  14. supersnoop

    supersnoop Tesla Roadster #334

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    CAC is the cars calculation of battery capacity. Ideal miles are based on the charge level. If the car sits for a few minutes after the charge completes, the miles would fall as the car continues to run the coolant pump and other accessories. In addition, the amperage of the charge circuit can allow the car to charge to an inconsistent level. There are many more variables in “ideal miles.”

    And a tech has no idea how much parts cost.
     

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