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Newbie Here - Just Configured by Model 3

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October 2017

This is not against you personally, but once again I feel I should cancel my reservation as this sucks so much.
People reserving one and a half years after me and yet being able to configure their car and pick it up in a few months, while will have to wait for almost another year, probably even longer, even though being a day 1 reservation holder. :mad:

I know it has been discussed to death, but every new story like that makes us non-US customers feel like third class customers. No matter how great the car might be in the end, I will always harbour hard feelings towards Tesla and the way they don't give a sh**.
 
I know it has been discussed to death, but every new story like that makes us non-US customers feel like third class customers. No matter how great the car might be in the end, I will always harbour hard feelings towards Tesla and the way they don't give a sh**.
You probably know this already, but prioritizing 2H 2018 deliveries for U.S. customers is all about maximizing the number of people that will qualify for the $7500 US tax rebate (expected to expire 12/31/2018). Many if not most U.S customers are willing to pay for a more expensive configuration knowing that the U.S. tax rebate will offset all or some of the added cost.
 
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You probably know this already, but prioritizing 2H 2018 deliveries for U.S. customers is all about maximizing the number of people that will qualify for the $7500 US tax rebate (expected to expire 12/31/2018). Many if not most U.S customers are willing to pay for a more expensive configuration knowing that the U.S. tax rebate will offset all or some of the added cost.

Yes I know this, but this is irrelevant to any non-US customer.

Letting someone who reserved in October 2017 jump ahead of someone who reserved in April 2016 (!) is just showing no respect towards these non-US customers. And such treatment will eventually fall back on Tesla, because people tend not to forgive if they have been treated without respect.

As soon as Tesla has serious competition - and outside the US that time will come earlier than Tesla can hope for - they will not be able to sustain their business if they don't change their practices. Trump may not like it, but "America first" will hurt America just as much as it will hurt the rest of the world. In the end, no one wins.
 
This is not against you personally, but once again I feel I should cancel my reservation as this sucks so much.
People reserving one and a half years after me and yet being able to configure their car and pick it up in a few months, while will have to wait for almost another year, probably even longer, even though being a day 1 reservation holder. :mad:

I know it has been discussed to death, but every new story like that makes us non-US customers feel like third class customers. No matter how great the car might be in the end, I will always harbour hard feelings towards Tesla and the way they don't give a sh**.

Even makes a joke of folks in the area who reserved before him and are still waiting ...
 
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This is not against you personally, but once again I feel I should cancel my reservation as this sucks so much.
People reserving one and a half years after me and yet being able to configure their car and pick it up in a few months, while will have to wait for almost another year, probably even longer, even though being a day 1 reservation holder. :mad:

I know it has been discussed to death, but every new story like that makes us non-US customers feel like third class customers. No matter how great the car might be in the end, I will always harbour hard feelings towards Tesla and the way they don't give a sh**.

I understand, and to be honest I did not think I would get to configure this early. I assumed probably early to mid 2019. Having said that, I don’t have it yet and it’s not like Tesla doesn’t have a track record of bring late for everything. I’d still be surprised if I got it before the end of the year.

Oh... and maybe this is Karma. As a VW/Audi fan, I’ve often had to wait for the latest models to come to the US (or UK when I lived there) and sometimes they never did... years after they were available in Germany and the the rest of the EU
 
Oh... and maybe this is Karma. As a VW/Audi fan, I’ve often had to wait for the latest models to come to the US (or UK when I lived there) and sometimes they never did... years after they were available in Germany and the the rest of the EU

Difference being that VW/Audi usually don't specify that they will bring a certain model to a certain market at specific time - and then not stick to that.
Tesla otoh said international deliveries would begin early 2018 (that incidentally also was my first delivery estimate, then it got pushed back to "mid 2018", then "late 2018", then "early 2019"). By now I don't think I will get to see my car before mid to late 2019.
 
Hey - I'm new to the forums so this is my first post. I just configured my Model 3 (AWD Performance, Deep Blue, EAP, Carbon Fiber, 20" Wheels, Black Interior). Delivery date is Aug 2018 - Oct 2018. I'm in Brooklyn NY, actually just down the road from their show room.
Welcome!

What car is the Model 3 replacing? And/or which car will it be sharing garage/driveway space with?
 
Difference being that VW/Audi usually don't specify that they will bring a certain model to a certain market at specific time - and then not stick to that.
Tesla otoh said international deliveries would begin early 2018 (that incidentally also was my first delivery estimate, then it got pushed back to "mid 2018", then "late 2018", then "early 2019"). By now I don't think I will get to see my car before mid to late 2019.
Thanks for explaining. It must be frustrating to have your delivery estimate bounce around that much! Our family is down one car, a Prius that was totaled by a 4WD SUV that spun out of control on an icy road a few months ago, so we are particularly keen to take delivery of our Model 3.

That being said, there's no reason to harbor hard feelings toward Tesla. I suppose it's easier for me to say this, as we were able to order our dual motor 3 last week and we're waiting only about five or six months beyond our initial, hoped-for delivery timeframe.

But I do feel that the Tesla team is working as hard as possible to serve Model 3 buyers while seeking to ensure that the company can exist without additional infusions of capital from capricious Wall Street. Tesla is now doing two things that are delaying many Model 3 deliveries:

1. Prioritizing higher-priced variants. This particularly affects 2016/03/31 line waiters who can afford only the base model, but it's necessary for near-term profitability, the best antidote to worsening TSLA "short attacks". 6-12 months ago, it wasn't as obvious that Tesla should pursue profitability at the expense of faster growth, but I'm glad that they have decided on a safer, more conservative path to ensure their long term survival.

2. Prioritizing North American deliveries. There are added costs to ramping up deliveries in other markets. More importantly, given the current political situation in the US, we cannot count on additional EV subsidies once the current federal tax credit sunsets. Back in 2016, most of us were expecting or hoping for a more EV friendly president, whether a Republican or a Democrat. (Personally, I'd be fine with eliminating EV purchase subsidies, but only if they're replaced by a substantial carbon tax, something that's very unlikely in an environment where key political leaders won't even acknowledge that climate change is a threat.) Also, as recently as a bit over a year ago, Elon Musk still had some hope that President Trump might be convinced to remain in the Paris Agreement. So, given today's realities, you really cannot blame Tesla for trying to leverage whatever is left of the EV subsidies in the US, even if this means delaying deliveries elsewhere.
 
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That being said, there's no reason to harbor hard feelings toward Tesla. I suppose it's easier for me to say this, as we were able to order our dual motor 3 last week and we're waiting only about five or six months beyond our initial, hoped-for delivery timeframe.

You bet there's good reason to harbor bad feelings towards Tesla if you're a non-US customer! Like you say, it's easy for you to be lenient towards Tesla because they put their US customers over all others, even if the latter have been showing support for the company and the vehicle for much longer.
Do you think Tesla would have been able to impress Wall Street with those incredible inital reservation numbers if it had been for the US market alone? And who do you think account for the majority of all those cancelled reservations that Tesla published? I think it's safe to bet it is not US customers.

Think of it another way. Tesla p***ed off every reservation holder outside the US/Canada by their behaviour. That massively destroys goodwill.
And it's not just like some US forum community members here tend to say "ok, cancel then, makes me get my car earlier, ha ha". It's far more dangerous to Tesla than people in the US seem to realize.
At a time where all the competitors are now focussing their efforts towards bringing to market competitive alternatives to Tesla's cars, and asap at that, any advantage Tesla had is rapidly diminishing. Showing all markets outside America that they don't really care for them certainly doesn't help Tesla's case.

Same with the SC network. It might have been a huge bonus over the competition, being widely available, fast, and above all, "free for life". But at least in Europe (and I'm sure especially China will be going the same route), new ultra-fast charging networks are being built out at this very moment that make the SC specs blush by comparison.
By the time cars like the Porsche Taycan (the artist, sorry, car, formerly known as Mission E) come to market (as well as others that use the same charging technology) next year, the network will be more than just rudimentary, thus making the SC network seem like a nice yet certainly not dealbreaker amenity. Especially as it is no longer free either, negating another huge plus it had in the past.

Summing up, Tesla will face far more competition by the time the Model 3 (or even Model Y) will finally become available here, making good sales numbers in future even more unlikely than they are already. Now add to that the fact that over here, potential BEV customers feel that Tesla is a company that can't be trusted to keep their promises and doesn't care for markets other than the US, the drink can turn very sour very quickly indeed.

Just for "fun", look at the sales figures for the Model S in Germany 2018 versus 2017:
Jan: 45 versus 96 (-53%)
Feb: 124 versus 163 (-24%)
Mar: 304 versus 457 (-33%)
Apr: 71 versus 124 (-43%)
May: 112 versus 206 (-46%)
Before 2018, it was almost contiuous growth year-on-year.

Numbers for Model X look similarly bad by the way, except for February, which was slightly higher in 2018 than in 2017.

Does that look like happy potential customers to you? At a time when one would expect that sales would be gathering momentum now that ever more people know of Tesla and the awesomeness of their cars.

No, it graphically shows, and I also get that in all conversations I have with potential BEV buyers, that people over here have growing distrust towards Tesla. I also know of several people who cancelled their Model 3 reservation because they were fed up with how Tesla treated (and "communicated") the problem. And it certainly is a problem when a company whose very survival is so dependent on the success of one model, fails to deliver big time - especially after having been (overly, as per usual) optimistic about getting it right at least the third time round.

Delays concerning the Model S, being their first real mass production offering, were to be expected.

Delays concerning the Model X, being overly and unnecessarily complex, as Elon himself admitted, were to be expected as well.

But delays concerning the Model 3, being already reduced to the max (sometimes more than what is beneficial) and streamlined for optimal production output, were certainly not to be expected and each further delay announcement is another disappointment, and not just for jittery Wall Street - which I don't care for one moment by the way.
 
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You bet there's good reason to harbor bad feelings towards Tesla if you're a non-US customer! Like you say, it's easy for you to be lenient towards Tesla because they put their US customers over all others, even if the latter have been showing support for the company and the vehicle for much longer.
Do you think Tesla would have been able to impress Wall Street with those incredible inital reservation numbers if it had been for the US market alone? And who do you think account for the majority of all those cancelled reservations that Tesla published? I think it's safe to bet it is not US customers.

.

Then you’d be betting incorrectly. The only real numbers available for cancellations are those of people who cancelled when their orders opened up, which has only happened in the US. The cancelation rate (according to a chart I saw at Model3 Owners Clud) is a little less than 25% among US customers.
 
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You bet there's good reason to harbor bad feelings towards Tesla if you're a non-US customer! Like you say, it's easy for you to be lenient towards Tesla because they put their US customers over all others, even if the latter have been showing support for the company and the vehicle for much longer.
Do you think Tesla would have been able to impress Wall Street with those incredible inital reservation numbers if it had been for the US market alone? And who do you think account for the majority of all those cancelled reservations that Tesla published? I think it's safe to bet it is not US customers.

Think of it another way. Tesla p***ed off every reservation holder outside the US/Canada by their behaviour. That massively destroys goodwill.
And it's not just like some US forum community members here tend to say "ok, cancel then, makes me get my car earlier, ha ha". It's far more dangerous to Tesla than people in the US seem to realize.
At a time where all the competitors are now focussing their efforts towards bringing to market competitive alternatives to Tesla's cars, and asap at that, any advantage Tesla had is rapidly diminishing. Showing all markets outside America that they don't really care for them certainly doesn't help Tesla's case.

Same with the SC network. It might have been a huge bonus over the competition, being widely available, fast, and above all, "free for life". But at least in Europe (and I'm sure especially China will be going the same route), new ultra-fast charging networks are being built out at this very moment that make the SC specs blush by comparison.
By the time cars like the Porsche Taycan (the artist, sorry, car, formerly known as Mission E) come to market (as well as others that use the same charging technology) next year, the network will be more than just rudimentary, thus making the SC network seem like a nice yet certainly not dealbreaker amenity. Especially as it is no longer free either, negating another huge plus it had in the past.

Summing up, Tesla will face far more competition by the time the Model 3 (or even Model Y) will finally become available here, making good sales numbers in future even more unlikely than they are already. Now add to that the fact that over here, potential BEV customers feel that Tesla is a company that can't be trusted to keep their promises and doesn't care for markets other than the US, the drink can turn very sour very quickly indeed.

Just for "fun", look at the sales figures for the Model S in Germany 2018 versus 2017:
Jan: 45 versus 96 (-53%)
Feb: 124 versus 163 (-24%)
Mar: 304 versus 457 (-33%)
Apr: 71 versus 124 (-43%)
May: 112 versus 206 (-46%)
Before 2018, it was almost contiuous growth year-on-year.

Numbers for Model X look similarly bad by the way, except for February, which was slightly higher in 2018 than in 2017.

Does that look like happy potential customers to you? At a time when one would expect that sales would be gathering momentum now that ever more people know of Tesla and the awesomeness of their cars.

No, it graphically shows, and I also get that in all conversations I have with potential BEV buyers, that people over here have growing distrust towards Tesla. I also know of several people who cancelled their Model 3 reservation because they were fed up with how Tesla treated (and "communicated") the problem. And it certainly is a problem when a company whose very survival is so dependent on the success of one model, fails to deliver big time - especially after having been (overly, as per usual) optimistic about getting it right at least the third time round.

Delays concerning the Model S, being their first real mass production offering, were to be expected.

Delays concerning the Model X, being overly and unnecessarily complex, as Elon himself admitted, were to be expected as well.

But delays concerning the Model 3, being already reduced to the max (sometimes more than what is beneficial) and streamlined for optimal production output, were certainly not to be expected and each further delay announcement is another disappointment, and not just for jittery Wall Street - which I don't care for one moment by the way.
Day0 reservation holder EU here with 2 reservations — zero pi**ed off, but fully supportive to Tesla as they are trying as hard as they can to do something that no other has even the balls to consider as an option.
They must get better and will get better.
 
Day0 reservation holder EU here with 2 reservations — zero pi**ed off, but fully supportive to Tesla as they are trying as hard as they can to do something that no other has even the balls to consider as an option.
They must get better and will get better.

Judging by your avatar you already have a Tesla. I see now I should have been more precise and said
"Tesla p***ed off every non-owner reservation holder outside the US/Canada by their behaviour."
If you are not an owner yet but still aren't p***ed off by how Tesla treats you, then I admire your calmness.

Then you’d be betting incorrectly. The only real numbers available for cancellations are those of people who cancelled when their orders opened up, which has only happened in the US.

Thanks for this info. I was under the impression that the published number of cancellations was independent of actual orders.
So in effect, the total number of cancellations would be even higher because the published number doesn't take into account all those who cancelled before they were asked to order - like those people I mentioned that I know of personally. None of them had any opportunity to actually order yet.
 
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...but fully supportive to Tesla as they are trying as hard as they can to do something that no other has even the balls to consider as an option.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. I know they were bold enough to get BEVs started in force when no one else really believed in it, but by now every last automaker is into the game and most even see that underestimating Tesla was a mistake.
The main problem for Tesla is that legacy automakers might be slow to change their ways, but once they do (and many have already started), they have distinct advantages over Tesla. Most notably the knowledge how to mass produce high quality cars at profitable rates.

Humm... this certainly went off topic...

Why?
The original topic was just someone telling us that he had ordered/configured his Model 3. No questions asked towards the community. Just a statement. My reply and the ensuing discussion was a direct reply to the the OPs post.